Do you think Rove is laughing at us - all of us in a big tizzy over Foley,

[begin_within]

and right smack in the middle of an important election season?
Even if Rove had nothing to do with it, do you think he wishes he had?
What could he have come up with that could possibly be a better distraction from the election than the Foley thing?
As if there's nothing better to do, like CAMPAIGN to take back our country?

[MadMaddie]

1. I don't know I think this has spun out of their control....

especially with the timing of the Woodward book and Condie/Rummy admitting that they knew about the impending attack...
and the cover up by the GOP leadership of the actions of Foley.....I have a feeling that the GOP covered it up so well from Rove that they were caught off guard.....

[seabeyond]

2. do you really think this will help them in nov?

it is not a rove to do, and no rove isnt laughing i am sure

[Lone_Star_Dem]

45. Follow up question

How exactly?

I'm with you seayeyond, Rove had no hand in this mess. If anything it's karma.

[Pale Blue Dot]

3. This is so absurd, and I've refuted this 100 times so far.

Here we go again:

Average Americans are not getting all worked up about the torture bill because they honestly believe that it has nothing to do with them. You and I know that that is not the case, but Mr. & Mrs. Joe Sixpack are not us.

However, the Sixpacks have kids. And they love a good sex scandal. Watching the drama unfold is how they unwind at the end of the night, and it's what they talk about at work the next day.

The Torture Bill is our worst nightmare. The Foley scandal is the Republican's worst nightmare. I can't imagine anything worse for them right now.


Foley, for better or for worse, is how we're going to get our country back.

[mac56]

9. Finnfan speaks the truth.

As I wrote in another thread: there are lots and lots and lots of retired grandparents in FLA, who all dote on their ambitious grandkids.

Each and every one of them have already vividly imagined how they'd feel if their beloved grandson had gotten such an IM or e-mail from Foley.

They're pissed. Bank on it.

[yorkiemommie1]

17. well put

even the usually well informed liberals at my work were in the dark about the torture bill.

edited to add: to some folks, 'habeas corpus' is a funny term...some kinda foreign language..."FRENCH" or somethin'.

[Sydnie]

Where were you when I posted this? I could have used some

like voices here. :hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2288286&mesg_id=2288286

[Imagevision]

32. Rove is laughing at us? -- kiddin? not even a mild chuckle, Rove

can't spin a 50 year old guy hitiing on an underage boy, parents from both parties don't want no-one screwing with their kids in light of so much pedophile/rape goinng on, taking the position of the White House today via Tony Snow; "over some naughty emails" this just isn't going to fly. Mess with my kid and you'll be messin with Mr. Smith & Wesson.

[LeftCoast]

50. Nov 8th GD topic: Dem wins in House and Senate are Rovian distractions!

:eyes:

[crikkett]

51. The torture bill's a done deal, don't you think?

It's passed both houses. A pre-emptive suit was filed to challenge it.

At this very moment what's left to do?

[helderheid]

68. TA DA!!!

[mac56]

4. No, I don't.

I think this is one that genuinely took Rove by surprise.

Much as we all may think he's omniscient, he ain't.

[Bluebear]

5. See Finnfan's response.

[merh]

6. "Foley" gives those campaigning more to campaign against

and to stand for.

The WH is not laughing, it is trying to figure out what to do.

Nice of you to be so narrow minded that you cannot see that Foley just put a big ole hole in the repubs "family value magic carpet" that they have been riding for so many years.

Sad that you are so closed minded you cannot see the forest of the campaign ISSUES for the tree of whatever one issue you consider the most important.

[savemefromdumbya]

7. no, because he probably paid the page's family off

and someone is going to find out!

[MindMatter]

8. As usual, the MSM

can only cover stories that involve penises.

I doubt that Rove engineered this story to come out. Of course, the Democrats did not engineer it either, because if they influenced it they would have done it a week or two later.

But now that the story is out, it does work for Rove in a twisted way. I doubt that by election time, there will be any lasting retribution against the GOP.

Rove probably loses one House seat he wan't planning to lose, but in return, he crowds out all the other bad news. That is probably a net gain for Rove.

[Change has come]

10. Who is distracted?

Now we may pick up even more seats in the House! I think Rove is shitting himself and waiting for the next shoe to fall.

[lonestarnot]

48. Not me.

Out putting up antiwar candidate signs tonight as a matter of fact.

[Webster Green]

11. He's not laughing!

Actually, he's fucked.

Iraq, Woodward's book, NIE, Condi lies, along with lots of Foley-gate are all over my TeeVee.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. No. I think he's probably horrified.

The "tizzy" is good because everybody is paying attention -- a sex scandal is something everybody understands, while constitutional law is something hardly anybody understands. A pervy Republican congressman who's the head of a committee for the protection of children turns out to be hitting on underage boys, and the Republican House leadership covers it up -- that's just horrible for them. And the general public, not just politics junkies and con law wonks, will pay attention. Rove can't control this, and frankly I think it's kind of silly to attribute that kind of power to him. He's not Ming the Merciless or Dr. Evil, the all-powerful mastermind.

[JeffR]

13. Who's distracted?

I've been able to keep up with Foleygate developments, and still paid attention to the Torture Act, Woodward's book, the latest Georgia polls. And I managed to catch Studio 60 & the Daily Show.

If I can do it, anybody can.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

14. This Is Rove's Worst Nightmare. How A Significantly Few DU'ers Can Think

otherwise is really logically perplexing to me.

All of the other things going on right now would barely make their way out of already politically informed circles.

But this, this has reached everywhere, and it's just getting started!

Though there are many other things going on right now that are of much more vital importance to this nation and the globe, the sad fact is not ONE of them have the legs or mass spread ability as this does.

This is the GOP's worst fucking nightmare.

[Imagevision]

34. I agree, even Rove is having doubts of maybe God isn't on their side

afterall...

[Swede]

15. Rove is working for the Democrats now?

I must have missed the memo.

[Rose Siding]

16. As the NYT ethicist told CNN,

"If you can't enjoy the downfall of hypocrites, you've lost your zest for life."

No, I don't think Karl has even considered laughing today.

[NightOwwl]

29. He was so much fun to watch! n/t

[begin_within]

18. What I meant in my OP is: Rove didn't come up with the Foley thing, and he

couldn't have come up with a better distraction from the election if he had tried. Do you think he is sitting back laughing, thinking to himself, "I don't even need to come up with stuff any more. Swift boat, gay marriage, and so on. They're all so fixated on this Foley thing, they might even forget that there's an election!"

[mac56]

21. I understand what you meant.

And I still think he's not laughing.

There are good distractions and bad. This one is tripleplusbad.

[merh]

23. NO, it will make the average Joe pay attention to the election

whereas the torture bill and the other issues you consider so much more important don't mean a whole lot to the them.

Gosh, please pull your head out of your notion "the election" and realize that this will be "the election".

[fishnfla]

28. a better distraction, what?

dont take a job in spin, man

you do realize that foley's name will still be on the ballot down in south florida? In other words, to vote GOP you pull the knob for a knob puller?

I dont see the distraction there in an election at all.....

[NightOwwl]

30. "to vote GOP you pull the knob for a knob puller"

:rofl:

[cali]

63. I don't think you could be more wrong

This doesn't distract from the elections; it focuses on them. There is no way on earth that Rove can spin this to repuke advantage.

[trackfan]

19. No. This is, for a change, an unimportant - in the greater scheme

of things - issue, that actually works FOR us, instead of against us. Sometimes you win by being the best; sometimes you win by having the breaks go your way. This is a break that is going our way. A Republican Congressman chasing the ass of some underage page is political manna from heaven.

[NightOwwl]

20. I think you forgot the sarcasm smiley.

:sarcasm:

[C_U_L8R]

22. Rove ain't getting must sleep these days

and the reichwing commanders must be ready to keelhaul the little porker.

Poor KKKarl should've let that jet roll over him

[Malikshah]

24. Rove will laugh until the Praetorians strike him down

Caligula, Nero, what have you--

He doesn't care about human life. To him, it's a political game and all that is important is winning at any cost.

It's actually quite sociopathic when you think of it...

Come to think of it, he reminds me of that heavyset/slackjawed creepy sociopathic child from Stephen King's "It"-- you know the one-- he was an eventual victim of the creature...but not before we found out his horrid backstory.

[Marr]

25. The front page stories of a Republican pedophile are... distraction? Huh?

That doesn't make any sense at all.

[Change has come]

26. And the Repuke cover-up. n/t

[Libby2]

27. No, personally I think he's wetting his drawers.

[Toucano]

31. The reaction at DU is exaggerated, I agree.

It's red meat for starving lions.

But the campaign and work continues all around us.

And DU will move beyond it soon. It's an important story, though. The reaction is just a bit extreme IMHO.

[mac56]

35. I disagree. I don't think it's exaggerated at all.

Very few Americans know what habeus corpus is, or care what Condoleeza knew and when.

But, by god, everyone understands middle aged men and their peckers.

This is what's going to bring the GOP down.

Nothing wrong with that. As another poster wrote, sometimes you win because you're the best, and other times you win when the breaks go your way.

[Toucano]

39. I don't disagree that winning is what matters

but I hardly think criminal or sexual habits of one congressman are going to "bring the GOP down".

The importance of this is exaggerated and in congressional races, people vote for the person more than the party.

For example, Foley's indictment, resignation, and shame will probably not affect the senate race in New Jersey.

As yet there's no evidence he actually had sex with any of his victims. Talking online with a teenage boy about masturbation is not exactly the greatest violation a Republican has done in recent years.

[merh]

40. What the hell do you think brought down the DEMS?

It wasn't our economy, it wasn't Bosnia, it wasn't even the terrorists attacks, it was FAMILY VALUES and how the scandals of the dems bite them in the ass in 1994.

Hell, do you NOT RECALL the January 2006 article in USA today saying the Abramoff scandal had turned the tide AGAINST republicans. Now add to that the FOLEY scandal and what have you got, but a real chance that we will take back congress. And though election theft is a viable concern, how can you steal when the numbers aren't even close?

----------------------------------

USA TODAY
Most consider lobbying scandal a big deal, poll shows
By Susan Page, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Americans are paying close attention to the lobbying scandal in the Capitol and say corruption in government will play a big role in their vote for Congress in November — more important than Social Security, taxes, abortion or immigration.

A USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday signals a perilous year for incumbents. Views of whether most members of Congress and the respondents' own representatives deserve re-election have sunk to levels not seen since 1994, when Democrats lost control of both houses. (Related: Congress poll results)

Enthusiasm for Democrats is only slightly higher than for Republicans. A plurality predict both parties will be hurt equally by the inquiry into disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff. And Democrats' hopes of scoring big gains have been tempered by redistricting after the 2000 Census that made many House districts less competitive.

"I wouldn't foresee the tidal wave of '94 repeating itself — the system's incumbents are entrenched enough to avoid that," says Dennis Thompson, a political scientist at Harvard University who studies ethics issues. "But I think there could be a shift of control of one of the houses, possibly. Before this corruption scandal arose, that was less likely."

(snip)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-01-09-gallup-poll_x.htm

[barb162]

49. A dem was accused of the same thing about 15 years ago and

he got re-elected. Of course, the Democrats never portrayed themselves as the moral values party

[soothsayer]

52. the republican in that 1983 page scandal did NOT get re-elected

bwa ha ha! The Dem handled it better (and the Dem was with a boy, the repuke a girl)

[merh]

53. the scandal that took down the party (the last straw)

was the bad checks scandal - dems lost power because of scandal fatigue, including the page scandal of 20 years ago.

[Toucano]

54. The topic is Foley, not Abramoff

Nice of you to cite an article that has nothing to do with the topic.

The Abramoff issue, of which I'm very aware (thank you very fucking much), reinforces the negative aspects of the Republicans that people already believe. Greed, cronyism, corruption.

The Foley issue does not reinforce what people already believe because people don't already believe that Republicans go around chatting online with teenage boys about how they like to jack-off.

You don't CHANGE people's perceptions. You REINFORCE their negative perceptions.

In that way, the Foley issue is not as significant as DU is making it seem. Remember Jeff Gannon? That was a HUGE issue on DU, but meant nothing in the real world.


The wrinkle in the Foley issue that DOES help us is the COVER-UP. That's significant if it continues to develop. Othewise, Foley is a blip on the radar. A joke of a tombstone in the political graveyard.

[merh]

58. ADD Foley to Abramoff

and yes, Foley is huge, it's about improper sexual advances to minors, it is twisted and sick and something the average citizen can understand and be repulsed by.

[Toucano]

61. Add the likely COVER UP of Foley to Abramoff and you have

something.

The average citizen is not nearly as outraged about someone chatting online with a teenage boy about masturbation as you and many others believe. Yes, it's inappropriate. Yes, it's illegal. But no, it's not a great tragedy that will send send the GOP into a tailspin. It's not the last straw.

No voter is going to change their mind about their House election based on the chat logs of Foley. I'm not even convinced we'll win Foley's seat because of this.

[merh]

64. I agree the cover up is worse

We shall see about his seat.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

33. He's vomiting in his handkerchief pocket.

[Beelzebud]

36. I think the Bush Crime Family are shitting their pants.

[Octafish]

38. They're probably working out escape routes to South America.

Rev. Moon's got a jungle redoubt the size of Connecticut along the Paraguayan-Brazilian border.

[ljm2002]

37. Okay, just for once...

...could we just stop whining about Rove? Who gives a rat's ass what Rove thinks? Do you honestly believe that Rove put this one out there? This is their biggest nightmare, and the timing could not be better. Take a moment, a few hours, a day or two to enjoy it.

Geez, Rove is not the master of the universe. The less we treat him like he is, the sooner his power will wane.

[TheWraith]

41. No. He's doing shots of Pepto Bismol.

This isn't something good for the Republicans by any possible stretch of the imagination.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

42. Uh nooooo

I know it's hard to understand that people in this country don't give a crap about their rights and about being decent - but they DON'T. If you don't beleive it - go out and talk to some of them.

Most also do not have the intellectual capacity to understand those matters either it looks like. They only have the capacity to understand sex - I guess.

[Zynx]

43. Karl Rove is no genius. This Foley thing hurts them so bad its not

even funny. First, that seat is ours now, making that 15 oh so much easier. Secondly, it may have put Reynolds, who already had a tough fight, in further jeopardy. It also probably tipped a small number of swing voters nationwide firmly towards the Democrats. This hurt them so bad.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

44. Sweetie, this is killing them

Really, I have to agree with the "taking shots of Peto Bismol" by the wraith. This is like a gut shot when they were expecting a right hook. OUCH!

Bless your heart, you worry more than I do, and that's not a good thing.

[bridgit]

46. nope, i think he's working over-time, first in a long, long while...

he actually has to come up with something different :rofl:

[barb162]

47. Rove doesn't control your actions or distractions

Bad publicity for the "moral values" party helps Rove how?

[npincus]

55. No.

[malaise]

56. Then why did the Rethugs have that

major conference call last night with all members? This is Rove's worst nightmare.

[WilliamPitt]

57. Wow. Just wow.

I...I...

No.

Can't do it.

Never mind.

[Marie26]

59. This is just dumb, sorry

Rove isn't laughing, he's scared. This scandal has already brought down one Congressman, and the Republican leadership themselves were complicit in covering it up. This could lower votes for them too. Finally, it goes to the heart of Republican support - the fundies & religious conservatives are outraged over this. They're finally getting that the Reps. care more about power than "family values" This will depress Rep. turnout all over the country. This is a distraction for the Republicans? I can't imagine anything more damaging to them.

[lonestarnot]

60. Bwwwwwwwwwwaaaaa!

:rofl: Red Rover has crappy pants. Yes he might find that humorous. I do.

[blogslut]

62. No, I don't think Rove is laughing

I think he is sweating...buckets.

[Beetwasher]

65. Oh Brother, Again? Rove Has Shit His Pants And Crawled Into A Hole!

Good grief. Seriously.

[Bunny]

66. Another single-tasking DUer.

Maybe we should make a separate forum for them, so they can fret about their one issue to their heart's content. Me? I can walk and chew gum at the same time, so I think I'll go ahead and focus on Foley for a while longer. M'kay?

[begin_within]

67. I just can't see people in Montana, Arizona, wherever changing their vote

from a Republican candidate to a Democratic candidate simply because of the Foley scandal. I don't see what impact it really has on the upcoming election at all. It's just a scandal, and it's far more personal than political. What I do see is that it is rapidly draining the Democratic brain trust of energy at the moment. At least if the postings on DU are any indication.

[Imagevision]

69. Perhaps Rove is awaiting the rest of ABC's emails to surface before

making a move. Foley mess seems to continue with more info daily coming out.

ABC producer says network to name names in Foley scandal
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/ABC_producer_says_network_to_name_1003.html