A note to my gay friends here on DU, re: Foley

[The Straight Story]

I get it.

As a christian I see where you are coming from when you get upset about this whole thing.

It's a long and twisted road really: There were priests who molested boys - gay men molesting little boys - or was it christians molesting kids? Hard to tell with all the labeling going on.

Someone from group X lives up to the stereotypes of group Y and people are all over it.

On the left, it is christians. A person who calls themself a christian goes and does something shitty and we use that as proof that the whole faith is corrupt (for the most part).

On the right, someone molests someone of the same sex and we fuel their stereotype that gays/lesbians are nothing but sex fiends who want to prey on our kids.

In the end, labeling just does not cut it when searching for the truth.

Humans in general can be real assholes to each other. We can say it is because someone is christian, gay, republican, democrat, atheist, etc and so on - but none of those labels endorse such acts as far as I can tell.

I don't care what label Foley gave himself. Gay, Christian, Republican, etc. Labels do not allow you to hide behind your actions - and all such labels do is allow people to foment hate which they whip up with their stereotypes (both right and left mind you).

I have known many fine republicans in my day, as well as gays, and christians, and atheists, and buddhists, etc and so on. You cannot hide behind a label in hopes of defending your actions - all such a practice does is hurt the good people who call themselves such.

-------------- My Point -------------

I get why you are so upset with how folks will use this to demean you. And sadly they will. As a christian I see many who call themselves such do fucked up things which allow those that hate us to yell 'see, I told you they were all freaks and out to get you'. The RW does this every chance they get (it was not about the priests, it was about gay priests, which they used to confirm to their flocks how evil gays were/are). Sadly, some on the left pull the same crap and look at a label as indicative of how someone will act based on pre-concieved notions/bias.

It's a damn shame in the 21st century that people still use labels and attack groups of people by such labels. Downright lazy in my opinion.

Just know I stand with you, that I see you and others here as individuals, and the actions of the few do not equate to the thoughts/actions of the many.

Don't let the gay haters get you down. They are idiots who are too lazy to see outside their little boxed minds. You have friends here, and we love you all and see you outside their little world.

Screw those too blind to see the truth. Someday, god willing, they will see people for who they are as individuals based on their actions and not their lame prejudices.

We here at DU are with you.

[tuvor]

1. Thanks, TSS!

If you aren't the first to have said it, you're the first I've seen to have said it best.

[njdemocrat106]

2. Recommended

A gay Christian, here, BTW.

[LeftCoast]

3. Yes! You get it!

I've tried to explain this so many times already - though not so elloquently. I'm sure I'm on ton's of ignore lists for my rants. I like your perspective on it as well. Nice to see it through different eyes!

:thumbsup:

[donco6]

4. Cool. thanks. eom

[cboy4]

5. What an ironic screen name considering the subject matter!! ;)

Thank you for taking the time to write such a thoughtful response.

It means a lot. :)

[The Straight Story]

8. Funny you should mention that!

I remember one of the last trips I took out west was with my best friend, who happens to be gay. Every time (nearly) we came to a stop light somewhere and he asked which way to go and I said 'straight' he replied 'I only go forward' and smiled.

When I signed up with this name I thought about the trips we had taken together, and still laugh because he won't go straight :)

[cboy4]

15. Yea.....my straight buds tease me about that as well about the whole

directions thing.....No, go straight.....Straight??? What's that supposed to mean?

It's always seems to generate a good laugh every single time, which is good!

You seem like a good guy.

Alright, I guess it's time for me to go straight to bed. Oooooops! =)

[Erika]

6. Pedophiles have nothing to do with sexual orientation

The Log Cabin Republicans must be masochistic for sticking with the GOP. They have been 100% cruel.

[goclark]

7. Well said! nt

[Maven]

9. Thanks for this.

I knew from the moment this story broke what the right-wing angle would be (SEE? gay=pedophile, just like we said!), but I also knew that, sadly, many people on the left would exploit the same-sex aspect of the story too ("Typical Republican pervert! He likes underage boys!").

It's nice to read something like this, from someone who took a lot of time and care to put it together. So thanks. :hug:

[The Straight Story]

12. I think we have all been there really

As a christian myself I feel it all too often here on DU. People just like to 'grab and go' because it is easier than anything else.

I can see people now making this an issue about gays instead of an issue about someone who abused their power to fulfill their own needs. Did they whine about clinton in the day being a heterosexual? Nope. His orientation had zero to do with the story.

Then there was the 'hot' school teacher and her young lover - no one cared about orientation then either.

It's a damn shame how people use the news to abuse.

[nam78_two]

16. Christians shouldn't be picked on!

I am not one, but its very clear that all the people calling themselves Christian who are on the other side are anything but.

Yeah sure-they can kid themselves...Ann Coulter is a "Christian" :eyes:

Please, they would have been the ones wanting to crucify Christ, not listen to his teachings....It amazes me that such petty, hate-filled lynch mobs can use the descriptor "Christian" on themselves :shrug:

[bigbrother05]

10. Thanks

Little Boxes, Little Boxes. on the hill side
Made out of ticky tacky, and they all look the same

[nam78_two]

11. recommended/nt

[pacalo]

13. I do agree!

Foley just happens to be gay. Pedophiles are like rapists; they are sexual predators who like control over those who can't defend themselves. And I suspect many have been abused themselves as children. That's my unprofessional opinion. ;)

[Skittles]

14. SKITTLES IS WITH YOU

yes INDEED

[niallmac]

17. Reminds me of the 'Don't Ask Don't Tell' BS

What people are all worked up about here is predatory behavior.
Are there not predatory straight people"?
Would not recognizing there are laws about predatory behavior
on the books now and gay or straight the same law applys end of story?

One of my big disappointments with Clinton the way he handled
this. First thing off the blocks when he checked in to the White House.
Not well executed I have to say.

[Danascot]

29. It would surprise me

if all the facts were laid open, that there weren't a LOT more congressmen hitting on female pages than those hitting on male pages. Same coercion and abuse of power dynamics, it's just that the man/boy thing is more lurid.

[Psephos]

18. KnR. Excellent post. n/t

[doctor_garth]

19. good to know

thanks from a gay man in NY.

[intheflow]

20. I stand with my GLBTQ brothers and sisters on DU.

And I kick and recoomend this thread.

[fizzgig]

21. thank you for putting it better than i ever could

my first thought when the news broke was that the religous right would use it to prove their point

[Alamom]

22. Excellent post. n/t

[Bluebear]

23. I love this place.

:hug:

[eridani]

24. Typical of closeted conservatives--

--but not usual at all for Dem/liberal/progressive LGBT people (whatever their religious beliefs or non-beliefs). We tend to go for consenting relationships with other adults.

[lapislzi]

25. It's not the sex; it's the lying

The gender of the congressional pages is immaterial. Foley's sexual orientation is immaterial. It's the fact that the contact was wholly inappropriate--on several levels--and the fact that it was covered up at the highest levels. That's the scandal.

Of course our corporate media is in fine fettle whipping up the idea that this is a "gay" scandal.

Gay scandal, my ass.

The hypocrisy is so staggering as to defy description.

So, to my gay friends on DU: I'm sorry for what this is going to do to you. Those of us who know, know better.

Thanks for posting this, TSS.

[princehal]

26. Nice words...

I have pretty much the same concern. It's hard enough to be gay. I also think we have lost a lot of perspetive; we want this to take down the Republicans, so when someone hands us a pitch-fork we join the mob.

We have a president who is actually responsible for KILLING innocent children. The congressman will most likely see much more jail time than bush ever will. And, to the glee of far too many here, it will not be easy time. This joy and glee in punishment

I have seen posts here calling for his death. I cannot tell you how much this distresses me. We seem to have lost all perspective in this world. Perhaps the world of The Handmaids Tale is not too far away, and from the posts I have seen here, the mob mentality is alive and well -- no matter the party.

[William Bloode]

27. Bravo!

I was thinking many of the same things myself. I myself wondered how all this moralistic blather might harm our normal homosexual friends.

To many just see the blood, and forget about the people their crusade may hurt. Witch hunts are bad for everybody.

I also have to wonder about the giant elephant in the room. Are there even some here who were louder than normal about this because it was man/boy instead of man/girl. Did that fact make it even more unsettling to some.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

28. It's about twisted, sick people who hide their true selves

Versus those of us who can express our sexuality in a healthy manner.

It's less about sexual preference than mental health.

Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the jokes.

The religious right's hatred of of GLBT people just makes it that much funnier, but it isn't about Foley being gay. It's about hypocrisy and this man's taste for molesting children.

[Sapphocrat]

30. Thank you, SS.

It doesn't hurt anymore when RWers do it. But it hurts a lot when LWers do it.

[TrogL]

31. Falllacy of the Undivided Middle

[galloglas]

32. This should be about the individual. In this case Foley,

whose greatest fault is hypocrisy. And his willingness to use, and destroy, others in a quest for... what? Myself, I do not understand the "what". For, in the fullness of time, we all return to the dust of the Earth.

Labeling just confuses the method with the wickedness of that one person. The wickedness is something of the individual's soul. Not something that generates from affiliations or demographics.

If, at DU, there is horror at Foley, it is should be because of the corruption of his heart and mind.

If, at DU, there is glee because he has fallen, it should be because he is one of an elite army who seeks to subjugate and exploit all fellow humans; GOP and Democrat, citizen and foreigner, black and white.

The horror is warranted. The glee is warranted. But neither is warranted because of the "labels" that could be arbitrarily attached to others by association.

Foley has a heart of darkness and should be tarred for that, not because of the way it demonstrated itself. The others that should be tarred are those of his ilk who shared, and joined in, a desire and effort to make all other humans merely chattel to be exploited and subjugated.

Foley, and those in his cabal, are truly Tyrants of the Soul. To have one fall is to move our common humanity one step closer to freedom from Tyranny, IMHO.

[RevCheesehead]

33. Very well said.

I hope we can have the same kind of tolerance for those of us who are Christians.

[myrna minx]

34. What a wonderful post. I completely agree with you.

:hug: