Bush I.Q. higher than Kerry's?

[Maine-ah]

this dumbass freeper keeps claiming this. Help me out here! Debunk this bastard (because I have know clue about this one)

Thanks!

[HereSince1628]

1. Hard to imagine, one thing for sure, Kerry does more with his brain

than the shrub.

[Maine-ah]

5. my thought exactly, but I can't find the info

to actually shove this guys head back up his ass where it belongs.

[blm]

21. Like Bush ever took a test he didn't cheat on - he has cheated and stolen

throughout his entire life.

There was a report about Kerry's grade point average at Yale being lower. Kerry, by his own admission, scored low grades in freshman year because he was spending too much time learning to fly airplanes. Kerry earned his pilot license at 19.

Ironic, since Bush was touted as a pilot by his campaign, but was really grounded for drugs and fear of landing. Bush was 27 then.

[SidDithers]

29. He's making the claim, make him provide the proof...

Don't play the game of having to refute every dumbass rumor that the wingnuts come up with.

If he can provide a credible source, then start looking into it.

Sid

Edit: Should have read further down the thread, I see others have already suggested this.

[FreedomAngel82]

46. Show how they each got in

If Bush was such a better student why did he get in by his daddy's name? Kerry got in by himself and actually went to other schools too including Boston University.

[Dr Fate]

2. Well, Bush IS a better liar and crook, BUT...

...Bush's IQ test results were probably fake, just like everything else the media has told us about Bush. I doubt he ever even took this or any other test.

[unblock]

3. why fight it? just say, ah, so shrub is an elitist ivory tower snob!

:rofl:

[evlbstrd]

4. I think it's true.

But IQ really just measures potential. What really matters is how you use it.

[Maine-ah]

9. LOL

it's not the size but how you use it. Ooh I like that.

[seabeyond]

12. it isnt true. i think you could snoop it or whatever that has facts.

what it was i think, fresman year? but gpa better than kerry. kerry also had a lot of advanced courses, bush did not. kerry also raised it after that, bush didnt. but i dont think this was iq

[evlbstrd]

20. True or not, it doesn't matter.

IQ is not a true indicator of intelligence. Ever been to a Mensa meeting? Sheesh.

[seabeyond]

38. sheeeeiit... we have a line of genius in our family

moms line. they are all messed up in their genius. i do know that isnt comparable to success. absolutely. no it doesnt matter. there is so much more to it. we can also say bush has failed at everything in his life. so.....

just the basis of what is said, even though it doesnt matter, is a lie

[bush_is_wacko]

70. My grandmother was a member of MENSA and you are right...

the thing about "genius" is in some cases it seems to be a distraction from reality.

As I posted below, several serial killers have had high IQ's. I wonder whether high IQ can lead to the ability to dehumanize your victims more than normal.

I'm not sure of the validity of this particular claim. I mean, come on, the guy can't even speak without help from his earpiece but what does IQ really have to do with anything?

[seabeyond]

74. who knows if it is true, and so what if it is. and you are right

high iq in immorality just leads to greater capacity to abuse. i personally feel the highest of iq's seem to bring challenges to most. my brother and that line of the family are all alcoholic, and not the messin around drunk, but die from alcholism type of disease. they tend to use if for self medication.

[evlbstrd]

76. There is no validity to the claim.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm

IQ means nothing. Especially if there is no common sense to go with it.

[bush_is_wacko]

79. That's a spoof. Has anyone found any real proof.?

Not that it really matters but it would be nice for the original poster to have something legitimate to show to his/her freeper friend, since it seems to be important for him or her.

[madokie]

23. I read a while back where some university rates the presidents

IQ and best I can remember #41 was a 94 and #43 was 91, again the best I remember they are the presidents with the lowest IQ numbers
but no way is bush's* higher than Kerry.

[evlbstrd]

Snopes debunks that report as a hoax.

[Gormy Cuss]

6. Ask the freeper how it compares to his/her own IQ

Then ask if the degree of difference in Bush and Kerry's IQs is statistically significant.

[unblock]

7. bush's iq before or after all the coke?

[Lars39]

8. He asserted, make him find the info.

And laugh like crazy while you do so. :)

[Maine-ah]

14. eh, good point.

hehehehehe, he's quoting newsmax.

[Lars39]

43. All the more reason to laugh him out of the room. :^)

[SmokingJacket]

10. Just say, Show me the tests.

There aren't any tests floating around out there.

But I don't need any tests to know Bush is a dumbass.

[sabra]

11. something came out about them having similar grades @ Yale

yada yada yada...

I think the 2004 debates are proof enough that * has some issues...

[MaineDem]

22. Ummm...Yale

:)

[sabra]

27. thanks, updated. They are all the same to me :-)

[Gidney N Cloyd]

13. He may be confusing IQ with their Yale grades.

Bush's were marginally higher (both were nothing to write home about)

[Viva_La_Revolution]

28. I remember hearing about the scores....

can't find them now either. I do remember being surprised, because I tested higher than both of them! :)

I did find this - voter IQ and who they voted for...

IQ Above 140: Kerry 80%, Bush 20%.
120-140: Kerry 65%, Bush 35%.
100-120: Kerry 54%, Bush 46%.
80-100: Bush 54%, Kerry 46%.
60-80: Bush 60%, Kerry 15%, Dale Earnhardt Jr. 25%.
http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=17627

:rofl:

[Maine-ah]

31. damn, we could have told them that!

[Gidney N Cloyd]

53. Oh, shoot. Too bad it's not a real study.

I liked this line:
"Folks see Bush in front of a stream talking about the environment and they assume he's in favor of it, even though if you read his legislation, I'd be surprised to hear him endorse shade."

[FreedomAngel82]

47. As another DU poster made the point

look at their classes. Did Bush take any AP courses? Did Kerry? I believe Kerry did as he got farther a long in his schooling. Also, what did Bush do in his spare time while he was there? Kerry did political clubs and sports. He even one time had a summer job working at a bottle factory for extra money and had to borrow money from friends and sleep on their couches once.

[seabeyond]

49. i specifically remember that was the first year, freshman year

kerry's grades went up. we saw them. we did not see bush's grades. why? easy enough to figure out

[Walt Starr]

15. Demand he provide a source for his assertion or it remains unproven

Don't give in to the crap the reichwingnuts always pull of making a statement and demanding you disprove the statement.

[Cleita]

33. Exactly.

I do this all the time. Usually, it's something that was on FOX News. When you ask what they cited as their sources, the study, the article, anything, they can't provide it.

[WI_DEM]

16. I know lots of people who have high IQ's who aren't really that smart

I.Q. tests are very subjective.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

17. Technically wouldn't any IQ comparison have to be between Kerry & Rove?

[ProSense]

18. You'd be surprised at how much IQ, degrees, etc. money can buy.

Think about the 3.0 G.P.A. athlete (booster) who has trouble reading My Pet Goat.

[treefrogjohn]

19. Maybe if measured before the drugs and booze

but I think they took a very serious toll on the number of his working brain cells and the quality of their synapses.

[Zynx]

24. I personally am not impressed by either of them as far as intelligence

goes. I voted for Kerry of course, but I never thought he was a genius by any stretch of the imagination.

[JAbuchan08]

36. I think the difference is humility, Bush is both stupid and condescending

and his arrogance only exacerbates his stupid actions.

Kery (besides not having to deal with the side-effects of heavy drinking and drug use) is not consumed by hubris.

[FreedomAngel82]

50. Nah

I think he's just really serious with his studies and cares about the work he does. He's done some great things over the years such as with Iran/Contra and BCCI.

[SkiGuy]

25. Even if true, so what?

Bush lies. Kerry doesn't.

[procopia]

26. Explain

why Bush was rejected at the University of Texas Law School, yet Kerry was accepted at Boston College School of Law.

[Cleita]

30. Ask him for his source. I'll bet he doesn't have one or

it's some stupid thing Rush Limbaugh said, who also doesn't have a source.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. It's hard work

bein' so smart, an' stuff.

[TayTay]

34. Really? I tend to doubt it.

I saw that video of Bush unable to even open a door in China and being stuck. I really think he is one dumb mofo.

If Bush is smarter, then why did Kerry win all three debates, even without the aid of a transceiver that was feeding him answers?

[second edition]

81. Good points! n/t

[DaHoot]

35. Kerry's IQ is apparently about 120

but Bush's actual IQ seems to be unknown. Based on his SAT's apparently Bush was somewhere around 125.

Also these numbers were taken when each were 22; Bush probably drank away a lot of that number.

[Maine-ah]

37. welcome to DU!

:hi:

[SidDithers]

39. What were Bush's SAT scores? nt

Sid

[DaHoot]

52. On His Yale Transcripts

it states a 1206 (566 verbal, 640 Math)
Averages seems to put this somewhere between 123-125 IQ for most people.

here's the transcript, whether or not it's real I don't know but I'm just going off of that:
http://www.iuptown.com/YaleProtest/bushs_yale_transcript.htm

[ProSense]

64. So why does he have such a problem spelling and pronouncing words?

And why is the proof still on the WH site?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, again, this is -- there was no malfeance involved. This was an honest disagreement about accounting procedures. And the SEC took a good look at it and decided that the procedures used by the auditors and the accounting firm needed to -- were not the right procedure in this particular case, or the right ruling, and, therefore, asked Harken to restate earnings, which it did. I mean, that's the way the SEC works. That's the proper role of an oversight group.

There was no malfeance, no attempt to hide anything. It was just an accounting firm making a decision, along with the corporate officers, as to how to account for a complex transaction.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/07/20020708-5.html


Not a typo (he said it), not dyslexia (he said it), simply put:

:dunce:

[DaHoot]

68. lol

Like I said I firmly believe he's just simply gotten stupid through the years. All those years of pot and beer seem to have caught up to him.

[MadisonProgressive]

40. Where do you 'apparently' get this info?

A SAT is not an IQ test either.

[DaHoot]

59. Here's a couple that I used:

http://www.iuptown.com/YaleProtest/bushs_yale_transcript.htm
http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/SATIQ.html

And yes I know these are just estimations and not nesicarily true.

I know I'm new here and it seems like I'm defending this criminal that's residing in the White House, but trust me that is not my intentions at all, in fact I think he probably is close to mentally retarded at this point in his life.

[ProSense]

41. Based on SAT scores some HS athletes with elementary school reading skills

entered top-flight colleges.

[Jayhawk Lib]

44. Common Sense

Even if Bush's iq is higher than Kerry's (Which I doubt very seriously)Kerry has a lot more common sense.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

56. bwah-ha-ha!

n/t

[Liberal In Texas]

73. Coked it away, more likely. Welcome to DU from me too. n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

42. Oh brother

Kerry released his records and it shows Kerry started out as a C student but as he went through college his grades got better. He was also very involved in school life from sports to political clubs and of course don't forget Skull & Bones. Bush did nothing more than lazy in class and do cheerleading. Try to find an interview with one of Bush's college professors. He was on a radio show not long ago talking about how horrible a student Bush was. Kerry got in by himself. Bush got in by his daddy.

[Mabus]

45. Are they using the "Lovenstein Institute" or Sailer as their basis?

If they are using Lovenstein as the basis of their argument then let them know that the "institute" doesn't exist. http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/lovenstein.html

If they are using Steve Sailer's "study" then you have to point out that Sailer uses the bell curve, scores on Kerry's Naval exams vs. Bush's ANG exams, and (this is the important part) a lot of assumptions to arrive at his contention that Bush's IQ is higher than Kerry's. You might also point out to them that Mr. Sailer is also a writer for the "American Conservative". To see Sailer's methods and his article go to http://www.vdare.com/sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm

I don't know if this information helps any but have at it.

[Maine-ah]

wow man! DU ROCKS

:headbang: :yourock:

I love instantaneous info!

[Mabus]

61. Just ask them their "sources"

chances are it will either be Lovenstein or Sailer.

btw: I love this part of Sailer's article because it helps demonstrate how detatched his opinions are and what a Bush apologist he can be.

During the 1960s, Yale tightened up entrance requirements for sons of graduates considerably, especially in the year after Bush was admitted. The late historian Jim Chapin, who taught at Yale during those years, told me that the intellectual quality of his students leapt upwards the next year.

This sudden arrival of so many brainy, bookish, leftwing nobodies may be a major reason Bush became so alienated from Yale during his later years there.

Still, it's important to keep in mind that Kerry was admitted two years before Bush—when admission was even less meritocratic.

From one brainy, bookish, leftwing nobody to another, go forth and alienate some freepers!

:rofl:

[MadisonProgressive]

69. ROFL - did they tighten the entrance reqs BECAUSE of dumbya?

[Cassandra]

48. Is that before pickling...

or after? Considering the mass quantities of drink and drugs consumed, what difference does it make now?

[Eugene]

51. That cocaine must be one hell of a drug!

The IQ estimates were extrapolated from military aptitude tests.
The two different tests cited by conservatives have Shrub around 125 and Kerry around 120.

Of course, it's not just what you've got but what you do with it.
Maturity, work ethic, and emotional stability also matter.

If Shrub isn't an idiot, he is a madman.

[rasputin1952]

54. I have seen this several times before and it shows me that if this is

an issue; the GOP is really in some seriously boiling water!

I don't know what bush's IQ is and to be honest, I would be scared to find out. He has no intellectual curiosity, he has absolutely no command of the English language and he apparently is incapable of looking at anything beyond 2 dimensions.

He is devoid of campassion and empathy; he is driven by greed and ego; he lies with no sense of shame; he has removed himself from any form of dissent...while these may not have much to do with IQ, it says a lot about his psychological profile...and THAT is a scary thought...:scared:

[MadisonProgressive]

72. He is devoid of campassion...

He doesn't like camping either! The flaming BASTARD!

[Maine-ah]

55. I found some snopes stuff:

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. No way to prove or disprove this

It would be private information.

Stupid argument. Focus on how well both have used their abilities. That is more significant than how high their IQs are.

[Octafish]

58. CRIMINAL IQ

After spending his college years drunk on his ass and coked out of his mind, George W Bush got a 25 out of 100 on his Texas Air National Guard tests. And there's even some question as to whether he did that well -- white out was evidently used on some of the papers.

Today, Bush can't complete a sentence that includes a subject, verb and object.

After spending his college years trying to learn the skills needed to succeed in statescraft, John F. Kerry was active-duty U.S. Navy and volunteered to skipper swift boats. He was promoted for competence and awarded medals for brilliance and gallantry under fire.

Today, Kerry completes sentences, paragraphs, speeches that are grammatically correct.

Who is smarter, let alone a better man?

[Stevepol]

87. Greg Palast said it this way: If Bush had scored 24, he ...

would have been considered "too dumb to fly." In other words 25 was the cut-off point.

It was a multiple choice test as I remember (so 25 would be what you would expect if you just guessed on each item?)

[MadisonProgressive]

60. Hitlers IQ was estimated at around 140. So how is this relevant?

[AZBlue]

62. Well, I'm sure you can cheat on an IQ test too...

Or pay off the test administrator.

[bush_is_wacko]

63. A whole lot of serial killers have a higher than average IQ too.

Whether it is true or not doesn't really matter to me but I do wonder about it's validity.

Bundy, Gacey, and Hitler had high IQ's. Look what they chose to do with them.

I know many people with high IQ's. I don't believe they all have the ability to turn into serial killers but a large number of people that have committed the most heinous of crimes seem to also have high IQ's.

[MadisonProgressive]

65. If they voted for Bush a second time they could be interpreted

as serial killers. The first was just manslaughter, the the second time it's murder in the first degree or at a minimum conspiracy to commit murder.

[bush_is_wacko]

71. Well, you have a point there...n/t

[B Calm]

66. Since he's the one making the claim, isn't he the one who has

the burden of proof?

[PatrioticLeftie]

67. Hmm. Perhaps we've been misunderestimating him all this time...

SARCASM. It's damn obvious Bush can't talk his way out of a paper bag. He butchered the English language.

[Warpy]

75. Oh, I think Stupid probably started out with a normal IQ, at least

but his inclination and upbringing caused him to be incurious and lazy, never bothering to learn anything he wasn't required to learn and then forgetting it as quickly as possible when he hadn't been able to cheat his way out of putting it into his short term memory.

Add to that the inevitable damage done by years of extremely heavy drinking, something he and people around him readily admit to, and you have a man who not only has a shallow intellect, you have one who is deteriorating rapidly and obviously.

Comparing him to Kerry in any regard is an exercise in futility. Kerry not only made use of what he was given in terms of brain power, he also seems to have avoided the pitfall of alcoholism and the havoc it has caused to Stupid's central nervous system.

It's rather like comparing the physical fitness of a video game addict with that of an avid soccer player. One doesn't exercise, the other does so strenuously.

[robbedvoter]

77. My head hurts. I thought stupid=good, smarl= elitist. W is just like them

(only with more money and the power to spy on them or send them to war) while kerry&liberals in general are fast talking schooled boys out to destroy our wholesome way of life with their serpent like dangerous knowledge. Did that change? Should I no longer be ashamed I am not ignorant and stupid?

[raysr]

78. Doesn't matter much about Kerry

Is * IQ higher than Hillary's would be a better question.

[second edition]

83. why does that matter. Bush won't be running against her. n/t

[LittleClarkie]

90. What's the IQ of her advisors

Don't forget who BUSH'S BRAIN is.

[second edition]

80. The repubs are gloating over 5 points? An IQ test is only one measure

of intelligence. The outcome of such tests can be manipulated and misread by the examiner giving the test. I have to wonder if Bush's status in life didn't influence whomever was administering the test. It has been know to happen before.
Anyway, I'll take Kerry's common sense intelligence,knowledge, hard work and enthusiasm over Bush's grasping and uh, uh for words any day. If Bush had any real intelligence, he never built on it and has now lost it.

[InvisibleTouch]

82. Okay, just that subject line...

...gave me a good laugh for the day. Thanks! :)

[madrchsod]

84. if he is so smart

why has he failed at everything he`s done? his father and mother propped him up all his life and now he has his nannies taking care of him...ask the freep to answer what has bush ever accomplished on his own?

[Batgirl]

85. this just makes me laugh and laugh

Bush's fuck-ups-galore track record of "mismangement" is catching up to him now in earnest. Everyone is damn sick and tired of the war in Iraq. The economy sucks for working people who are having to make do with less of everything. People are hearing reports of record oil company profits while wondering how they will afford to keep the furnace running this winter, and they are making the connection to Bush, Inc. And on top of it all, here comes the illegal wiretapping scandal and serious talk of impeachment.

And this freeper acquaintance of yours, desperate to cheer himself up in the midst of an ever unfolding disaster, and the best he can come up with is that the figure at the center of it all, (whom he must continue to defend and worship because it's unthinkable to admit he was punk'd) may have once scored modestly better than Kerry on a test?

I believe merriment, not debunking, is a proper response.

[Buns_of_Fire]

86. Correct question: Bush I.Q. higher than a kumquat's?

After all, Stupid Is as Stupid Does. (Forrest Gump may have said that. If he didn't, he should have.)

[bloom]

88. For the people who bring up grades...

Lydia Leftcoast posted this in another thread:

"Furthermore, in one case, the professor in charge of the class I was TA'ing upped the grade of a completely flaky student to whom I had given a "C." "She's from a prominent family," he said."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5708562#5708645


Obviously the grades mean nothing.

[LittleClarkie]

89. And Einstein flunked math

It depends on how much you consider the factors used to be an accurate measurement of intelligence.

Kerry was very involved in activities early in his college years. He tended to slough off his schoolwork therefore. If it's his grades that are being used, then I'd say that's probably not an accurate measurement.

I'm trying to remember the name of the guy who did this during the campaign. He used several factors aside from an actual IQ test. Very subjective in my opinion.

I was also sent an email by a freeper that pointed out that Bush went farther and at a better school than Kerry. The fact that Kerry went to Boston College was supposed to be a factor, since it wasn't Yale. But parts of the email were plain wrong in claiming that Kerry didn't go for higher education at all. He went to law school at a college he could afford.

It all depends on the criteria being used.