"Too bad the people of Venezuela don't have free speech."

[ck4829]

Thank you, John Bolton, for those words of wisdom.

I know that I can stand up and criticize Bush... as long as I'm in a cage half a mile away from where Bush is at.

I know that I can go to a Bush rally and call him "Chimp" right to his face... http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/09/bush_backers_only_policy_riles_voters_at_rnc_rallies">I just have to sign a loyalty oath so I can be approved first.

And I know that I can enter the Republican National Convention and protest... and nothing bad will happen to me, like being thrown down to the ground by Security and then getting kicked in the stomach by a Republican Goon.

[EarthNeedsHope]

1. The opposition practically OWNS the media in Venezuela

These Bush people are PATHETIC.

[Warren DeMontague]

2. Yeah! Their tv spouts propaganda all the time, their government tortures

people, what few civil liberties they have left are being rapidly dismantled, and they are subject to warrantless wiretapping and spying 24-7.

Oh, wait-- That's not Venezuela, that's us.

[Crazy Dave]

3. We're allowed to complain publicly

That we have no affordable or government provided health care and that our free elections are manipulated and have become a fraud.

[Bacchus39]

4. well, they have the "insult" law

Santiago, March 24, 2005) — Amendments to Venezuela’s Criminal Code that entered into force last week may stifle press criticism of government authorities and restrict the public’s ability to monitor government actions, Human Rights Watch said today.

By broadening laws that punish disrespect for government authorities, the Venezuelan government has flouted international human rights principles that protect free expression.

José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch

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Venezuela: Media Law Undercuts Freedom of Expression
Press Release, November 30, 2004

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“By broadening laws that punish disrespect for government authorities, the Venezuelan government has flouted international human rights principles that protect free expression,” said José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch. “While countries across Latin America are moving to repeal such laws, Venezuela has enacted further restrictions on the press that will shield officials from public scrutiny.”


The amendments extend the scope of existing provisions that make it a criminal offense to insult or show disrespect for the president and other government authorities. Venezuela’s measures run counter to a continent-wide trend to repeal such “disrespect” (or “desacato”) laws. In recent years, Argentina, Costa Rica, Paraguay, and Peru have already repealed such laws, and other countries like Chile and Panama are currently considering legislation that would do so.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/03/24/venezu10368.htm

[redqueen]

6. Yeah, that's pretty bad...

It could be that he thinks this will serve to dampen the pro-coup rhetoric in the corporate-owned media down there, but in the end it seems counter productive.

[Bacchus39]

8. yep, as far as I am concerned the US response is appropriate

do not dignify that moron's infantile tirade with a response.

[redqueen]

10. Response? The CIA-backed coup occurred before any insult, ya know.

:wtf:

[Bacchus39]

13. Chavez knows all about coups doesn't he??

n/t

[Bacchus39]

14. Penalties for insulting Chavez in Venezuela are:

Anyone convicted of offending these authorities could go to prison for up to 20 months. Anyone who gravely offends the president, on the other hand, can incur a penalty of up to 40 months in prison.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/03/24/venezu10368.htm

[High Plains]

27. Can you tell me how many have been prosecuted under this law?

[Flanker]

43. Nobody Chavez has even pardoned one or two that have been convicted

before they served a day.

[redqueen]

47. I love how there's no response to this...

grrr People carrying water for the bush admin on this board... *ptui*

[redqueen]

20. All coups are not equal... or didn't you know? n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

34. No, he doesn't. His attempt at one was a flop, so he tried democracy

and THAT worked instead.

[Crazy Dave]

7. Well currently here in the US...

...if you complain publicly to a large audience about this administration or the war in Iraq you're accused of giving aid and comfort and boosting the moral of the terrorists. It would be called treason if it were true and if the right had their way it would already be voted into law. Say hello to political prisons here in the US if they ever do get their way.

[redqueen]

11. Some people have been fired from their jobs,

forced out of events, reported to the secret service, etc. etc. etc.

Yeah, we're WAY different... way way.

[katinmn]

29. Vets arrested for wearing anti-bush t-shirts at a VA hospital

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/06/1349239

[Bacchus39]

12. there are plenty of anti-war voices publicly expressing their views

at rallies, on TV. I see them every night on Hardball. Look at Keith Obermann. The guy is on a crusade. If they interviewed me, I would say the same. Now the pro-war side can accuse me of anything they want, however, if criminalization of speech is another matter.

To reiterate, while governments like Costa Rica ARgentina and Chile have abolished these antiquated laws, Venezuela just made the penalties more severe.

[redqueen]

21. Your dedication to negativity re: Chavez is quaint.

Actually, it's kinda laughable.

Put it on a scale.

Justice and better living conditions for the poor vs. not being able to insult the president.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

[sufrommich]

26. But you're "accused"

by the usual suspects of right wing nuts who are basically preaching to their choir,which is hugely different than your government accusing and jailing you for it.

[flyarm]

39. well hell this is what we have under little lord pissy pants!!

Amendments to Venezuela’s Criminal Code that entered into force last week may stifle press criticism of government authorities and restrict the public’s ability to monitor government actions, Human Rights Watch said today.

HOW THE HELL IS THIS DIFFERENT THAT WHAT WE HAVE HERE NOW UNDER THIS CABAL???????

OURS IS ONLY UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME....SECURITY..secret security and all that bullshit!

FLY

[redqueen]

5. WTF? Is he really that stupid? No, he just knows his audience is...

I'm sure he's aiming this BS at that dwindling percentage of "fool me, please!" bush party loyalists.

I'm sure he expects nothing less than :eyes: from the rest of us.

[Blaze Diem]

9. Asshole...Bolton is the "devils" right hand man at the UN

effing circle jerk of all of "President Devil's" men.

[TygrBright]

15. ...nah, I can't. This one is TOO cheap. Well... oh, hell...

"Too bad the people of the United States have 'Free Speech Zones.'"

Damn. I just can't resist the cheap ones.

resignedly,
Bright

[Lone_Star_Dem]

16. Yep, too bad they have unjustified government intrusion, too

You know, like the warrantless wiretapping I heard their government has been doing to the citizens there...oh, wait a minute.

[CJCRANE]

17. I'll worry about Venezualan civil liberties

when I get mine back.

[redqueen]

23. BRAVO!

:applause:

[The_Casual_Observer]

18. Seems as though Chavez is starting to take care of the poor

in Venezuela. That sort of conduct isn't looked upon too kindly by the people that run the game in the USA.

[Initech]

19. I hate to say this, but I'd almost rather live in Venezuela at this point

[fooj]

22. Bolton, take a flying leap...

what an asshole.

[treestar]

24. I don't think it's quite relevant

Chavez doesn't have to be a good guy to be a symptom that the rest of the world is starting to band together to decide that the US will not push them around.

[warrens]

25. I'd like to hit that guy so hard his moustache

Would land in the next freakin county. What a snotty, creepy thug he is. And it looks like his career is OVER.

[katinmn]

28. But if you're a veteran and you wear an anti-bush shirt to a VA

hospital, you will get arrested.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/06/1349239

[flyarm]

40. yep!! AND PEOPLE HERE HAVE THE NERVE TO BITCH ABOUT ANOTHER GOVERNMENT ?

when we have put up with just as bad or worse here for 6 years????????

never in my 54 years did i ever live with fear of my own government or anyhwere else..AS I DO NOW ..TODAY UNDER LITTLE LORD PISSY PANTS!

and i lived in Venezuela 2 times!

fly

[bvar22]

30. Quick Chavez Inventory:

Chavez is diverting a percentage of profits from Corporations extracting Venezuela's Natural Resources to:

*Feed the Hungry

*Shelter the Homeless

*Heal the Sick

*Clothe the Naked

*Educate the Ignorant

*Provide unused land to peasant Farmers

YUP! I can see why some Americans HATE Chavez.
If something like this spreads North, the USA as we know it would cease to exist!!


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[katinmn]

31. That's it, bvar! And...I've been calling Bush Satan for years

:evilgrin:
It would be hypocritical to criticize Chavez for saying the same thing in front of all the world's leaders.

[malaise]

46. Yuo forgot the most important one

in Bushco's books.

Tax the fugging corporation so you can repair the environment when they're finished messing it up.

[Gabi Hayes]

32. who is that slimy creep Robert Zimmerman, putative "democratic

strategist" on CNN, who just said he AGREED wholeheartedly with Bolton's handling of his Chavez comments?

have you ever seen this guy?

he looks like the ultimate sleazebag/Kstreeter/GOP operative. plastic surgery much? first time I saw him, I was dismayed to see he's a 'dem.'

clearly a DINO DLCer

[cassiepriam]

33. Too bad Americans don't have free speech either. nt

[KaptBunnyPants]

35. "There ought to be limits to freedom"-

Bush's response to a website which insulted him during the 2000 election. The people of Venezuela will decide if Chavez is unduly violating their rights. Personally, I would think losing the right to slander public officials is the bare minimum response to a failed foreign sponsored coup attempt, but that's just because I know my government would execute me for far less.

I'll never understand the neo-liberals on this board; They didn't care about the violation of our rights for the drug war. They don't care about the violation of our rights for terrorism. But they fully expect Chavez to suffer through an attempted coup attempt without responding at all. I guess it all comes down to property rights. The people who America violates have no property, and therefore they have no rights. But neo-liberals can't bear to be in a world where the wealthy are prevented from using their domination of the media to dictate policy.

[redqueen]

44. So they're "neo-liberals"?

I was thinking of a different word... ;)

[KaptBunnyPants]

50. I'm trying to be as generous as possible :)

nt

[rman]

36. Not to mention that it's a complete lie

It is only in the worst of cases of slander by the anti-Chavez Venezuelan commercial media that "free speech" is limited.
These are the same commercial media that followed government orders not to show Chavez supporters during the short-lived US supported coup against Chavez in 2002.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_coup_attempt_of_2002
http://www.chavezthefilm.com/index_ex.htm

[walldude]

37. There are problems with freedom of expression

in Venezuala, there is no doubt about that. But people using that as a way to erase all the good Chavez has done is pointless. The fact is, Chavez is doing a hell of a lot of good for his country, he's actually a voice for the little guy. If America hadn't gone off the deep end after 9/11 we could have improved our standing in the world community, maintained a high moral authority and been in a position to work with and put pressure on Chavez to release the restrictions on speech and truly become a Democratic nation. It could have been a shining example of "spreading democracy". Instead... we're in a pissing match. :eyes:

[Horse with no Name]

38. or being removed from the State of the Union address

for wearing a T-shirt that simply states the number of dead in Bush's war.

Or being removed from an event that you had a ticket for because you had a Kerry sticker on your car.

And if we indeed have freedom of speech in this country THEN WHY THE FUCK DOES BUSH HAVE TO SPY ON US?

[Zhade]

41. It's a lie, anyway.

NT!

[flyarm]

42. LOOK I WAS A DELEGATE TO THE DEM CONVENTION..AND OUR COUNTRY

HAD PEOPLE IN CAGES..YES CAGES...horrible horrible so called free speech cages..all the dem delegates begged the * boys to take them down..and they kept people in cages so they could not get near us..

i got screamed at by a cop in Boston because i went over to the people in the cages and said hello and told them it was against everything i believed in for them to be in cages..

it made me sick!

so quit bitching about Venezuela ..when it is worse here!

and it is worse here..

i know..i lived in Venezuela! 2 x

here in the good ole USA we get our phones tapped , aol censored, our library records monitored,we now dish out torture,we have a president who arbitrarily breaks our laws and constitution and he gets a fucking free ride.. or fellow americans tell us to get the hell out of our country when we tell the truth or demand the truth..our media is nothing but bold faced propagandists..so how could this country be a model for anything but fucking fascism????????

and we are going to worry about another president of another country??

lets fix it here first!

fly

[redqueen]

45. But our gov't must demonize leftists like Chavez!

They simply must prevent spread of economic justice!

[Beelzebud]

48. Too bad the people of America are represented by Bolton.

[Ganja Ninja]

49. Not like us with our free speech zones.

:sarcasm: