So what does Jesus think about torture?

[Wetzelbill]

Last time I checked he never spoke of it's virtues in the Beatitudes. I wonder how Bush and the self-righteous, holy roller Republican members of Congress justify moral values with torture?

[Kutjara]

1. I think he said something like,

"Father forgive them. They know not what they do." Unfortunately, our particular torturemongers know precisely what they're doing.

[Wetzelbill]

3. is that ever the truth

Just stop and think for second. The President of the United States explicitly wants to torture people.

How the hell did we ever get this low?

[aquart]

6. I thought he said, "Father, why have you forsaken me?"

Which is a reasonable thought while being tortured.

[leftofthedial]

2. as long as you are torturing muslims or liberals

he'd be all for it


just like all the other republicans.

[Wetzelbill]

4. isn't it torture enough just watching this guy represent us in the world?

ugh..

He's done more to perpetuate the "dumb American" stereotype than any other person in history a million times over. Watching him at the G-8 made me sad. Pure agony.

[leftofthedial]

7. no shit.

I can't take it.

[yurbud]

5. Jesus talks to George W. Bush at his ranch

courtesy of:






http://professorsmartass.blogspot.com/2005/06/jesus-talks-to-george-w-bush-at-his.html

One day, George W. Bush was walking through woods at his ranch in Texas, and the Lord Jesus met him and walked with him, as Bush said he often did.

“Mr. President,” Jesus began respectfully, “I am deeply troubled.”

“What’s eating ya, beard boy?” Bush said to his Lord and Savior.

“I am deeply troubled because I have seen a country that does not know me. Their people do not follow my ways, and their leaders do not fear God and glorify themselves instead of him. They ignore the cries of their people and add to their affiliction. What would you do to make such a country come to know my love, Mr. President?”

George W. Bush did not think at all, for he was a decisive man who knew what he knew and needed no thought or evidence to tell others what to do. “This leader’s a bad man?”

“Yes,” Jesus said.

“We got to take him out. We’ll give some money to his enemies or even his bodyguards, so maybe one of ‘em’ll air condition his head and take his place.”

“What if no one can do this?”

“Then we gotta invade. We’ll bomb every place that leader ever takes a dump, and tuh make sure they can’t fight back, we’ll blow out the phones, electricity, water, and even sewers.”

“Won’t your bombs hurt mothers and children and even men that hate the leader more than they were hurt by the leader? Won’t the parent who sees his child whose head is reduced to empty flaps of skin by your bombs or the child whose parents and brothers and sisters are killed and whose arms armed burned from his body, hate you and your lord with an undying hatred if you do this, and fight you even more than the evil leader?”

“Jesus, I got that covered. See, we’re going to privatize everything. Everything they ever made, all the minerals and whatnot below the ground, and every plant, drop of water and breath of air above and sell it to my friends. Then they gonna sell—“

“How would that help—“

“Don’t interrupt me, I’m working toward a point, Jesus H. Christ!”

And Jesus was silent.

“After we finish the privatizing, if anyone don’t like it we’ll throw them in prison, strip them naked, and make them bark like dogs. Then we’ll take pictures and threaten to show ‘em to their wives and friends if they don’t do just like they’re told when we turn ‘em loose. If that don’t break ‘em, we’ll rape their wives and children in front of them, so that they know who’s boss.”

“How will that make them love me?”

“We’ll do some religious stuff too. We’ll make them cuss out their false god and say that you’re the Lord, and if they don’t, we’ll throw their holy book on the ground and piss on it. Hell, we’ll make them piss on it. You can bet they won’t be denying you after this.”

“I see. And what would you do with the leader of this country?”

“Well, if we didn’t kill him outright, we got to humiliate him in public. Kill his children and pull their bones out to identify them. Then when we catch him, we’ll parade him around in his underpants, and have a local on our payroll pretend to give him a trial. It’s better not to kill ‘em outright now that I think about it. My pappy says can’t go back to beat a dead dog a second time, so It’s better to let him live.”

“George,” Jesus said, “your plan is more terrible than the wrath my father rained down on Sodom and Gomorrah, the people of that country will repent of their sins, and their leader will be brought low.”

“That’s great cuz I’m a war president. I always got war on my mind. When do we get started? Who is this leader?”

“You are that leader, George. And what you have done unto the least of my children will be done unto you.”

And George W. Bush had no idea what the hell Jesus was talking about.

[magellan]

10. That is right on the money

Disturbingly so. Thanks, yurbud.

[yurbud]

23. since you have the V refs, remember the scene with the V & Sutler skit?

Has there been ANYTHING that pointed done on our TV about Bush?

I remember seeing Darrel Hammond on some show go through a series of his dead on impressions, and when he got to Bush, he just used his normal voice.

Likewise, if someone had never heard of Fox News and you showed them Bill O'Reilly and his counterpart in the movie, they would be hard-pressed to guess which is real and which is fiction.

When I saw the movie, the one thing I didn't like was Sutler's angry tirades. I thought a true dictator would be more cold-blooded and calculating--then I remembered the stories of Bush's temper tantrums that barely make it off camera, like the time a reporter asked him about Ken Lay.

The hard part about doing satire right now is if it is more extreme than reality, it doesn't seem credible. If it is ONLY as extreme as reality but just transported to another country, it still almost seems too much to believe.

[sofa king]

8. Jesus is obviously an asshole.

He hates black people, wants to keep women barefoot and pregnant, doesn't know jack shit about science, is greedy as hell, thinks being gay is some sort of crime, and is financially and morally backing at least two wars.

I know this because the people who know Jesus better than I do have told me so. So obviously, Jesus is an asshole. I think it's a pretty good bet that Jesus is okay with torture, too.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

9. Here's his thoughts

Matthew 10:34: Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

[ClintonTyree]

11. Gee, that's so violent!

Does christianity propose violence as a solution to the world's problems. Is it a violent religion? :shrug: Perhaps pope "Ratz" should give another speech denouncing christianity as a violent religion. The entire book is filled with smiting, killing, sex and treachery. It makes you wonder. Or, at least it should.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

12. Is it a violent religion?

You're not real big on reading history are you? Christianity and Islam are the two great warring religions of our world. It is hard telling how many people have perished over the century's from these two religions.

[misternormal]

29. Try...

... The Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition for statrers.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

30. And that's the whole thing, those are just the starters. n/t

[zeemike]

14. That out of context quote is unfair.

And often used to counter all the other quotes that really show that Jesus was about peace and love and understanding.
Ir you take it in context you will se that it was a prophecy not a statement of how he felt, and one that came true less then 70 years after his death.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

15. And how is it out of context?

Seems pretty to the point to me.

[zeemike]

19. He was telling his followers what would happen in the future

Are you aware of that?
"Think not that i am come to bring peace" was to warn them to the reality that they would face.
They did not understand this because the traditional understand of the Saviour in the jewish understanding was to rule as a king and bring peace to the world.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

24. You pretty much make my case for me

Warning them to the reality of the resistance they would face and the aggressive stance they would have to assume to spread his "gospel" to all of the world. History tells us that the Christian were more than happy to comply and many conversions were obtained at the end of the sword.

And you are correct that the O.T. prophesies the Messiah as bringing peace to all of the world, "and their swords would be turned to plowshares, something which Jesus obviously did not do, which pretty much makes the case that he was not the messiah.

[zeemike]

25. Or the other possibility that people did not understand

The prophecy about the Messiah.
And you are right many conversions were at the point of a sword, but not by the disciples of Jesus. That all came much later when the religion had been corrupted by power.
But the point here is that the comment about the sword does not represent the teachings of Jesus. His teachings were clearly non violent and one only needs to read the sermon on the mount to have that verified.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

26. I don't know, the text seems pretty clear to me

I would also find it odd that the Hebrews would not understand the text, since it was their religion, but the Europeans would.

Don't you think that would be kind of odd?

[zeemike]

27. It's the reason the Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah

Because he did not establish a kingdom on earth.
The Christians were those that believed in him and accepted his word that he would come again to establish his thousand years of peace on the earth.
And at that time I suppose the Jews will accept him as the Messiah if he were to do that.
It is not at all odd to me that these differences in understanding exist.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

28. Well it is to me and so is it to the Jews and I tend to side with them.

Particularly since there seems to be a lot of evidence that text has been altered quite a bit over the years for political gain, not to mention it is still being used for political gain.

[zeemike]

32. What evidence that the text has been altered?

I have not seen any.
And in fact sense the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls there is evidence that the text has not been altered at least in the last 2000 years.
Most of what they call evidence is the opinion of some scholar that feels that the style of writing seems different to him and then he speculates that two different people wrote it.
That is not evidence it is speculation.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

34. Whatever. n/t

[blonndee]

33. Yes, and it's commonly understood that this quote is meant to reference

something in Micah, and in Luke the Jesus quote becomes "division," probably referring to division amongst families and friends that followers of Jesus could expect.

[greyl]

17. The truth is that the Bible isn't a factual history, and that quotes

attributed to Jesus are fiction.

The abstract Jesus idea that many have these days is great, but there's hardly support for it in actual history. Kind of like Yoda.

[zeemike]

21. Whether it is fiction or not is not the question

We should be asking.
The question is whether those words attributed to Jesus have any value or not?
Can you agree with them or not?
Just like Shakespeare wrote some profound things that we can appreciate even if it is all fiction.

[Lerkfish]

13. considering he was a victim of torture himself, I don't think he has

anything supportive to say about it.

instead, he did express the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

from that, it should be easy to figure out he's against torture.


too bad the right wing nutjob "christians" seem to conveniently forget that.

[greyl]

16. He advocated beating slaves, according to the Bible.

I don't think looking to Jesus quotes for answers is the best route to go in this day and age where reason is under assault.

[tyedyeto]

18. He might have this on his car .....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2175771

[spanone]

20. Bush* is a political Christian. He pays fake homage to get votes.

[Virginia Dare]

22. As long as it's his chosen one, Lord Chimpface...

sanctioning it, he's totally fine with it.

[elocs]

31. I remember a poem from years ago in a Cleveland Amory book

called "Mankind?" that had to do with animal rights and this particular poem was about an animal caught and suffering in a leghold trap. It was a very poignant poem and I remember the last 2 lines, but not eactly, but they were:

"Then there came the One, who set the tormented creature free;
Be at peace my little one, for once men held and tortured me."

If there was a Jesus, he knew firsthand about torture.