Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Raytheon's "Silent Guardian" Microwave Weapon is LETHAL! Coming Soon ...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 08:52 AM
Original message
Raytheon's "Silent Guardian" Microwave Weapon is LETHAL! Coming Soon ...
To a Protest near You!

Once I read the article on the use of Microwave weapons as crowd control as a "test", I had to do some research. Here is what I have found after a very quick Google search. It is scary beyond belief!

I also noted, yet did not post it here, it seems as though the US has already been using these weapons in Iraq. It is not clear in what manner they have been used, Lethal or non-Lethal as it appears they are perfectly able to be racheted up to the Lethal level easily.

Microwave Weapons for Crowd Control

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060819&articleId=3006

VIDEO: CLICK TO VIEW

30-second video, with soundtrack


August 9/06 Microwave weapons for crowd control used to be top-secret stuff. No more. Raytheon, which makes them for the military, now promotes its Silent Guardian, a smaller version of its Active Denial system (see MWN, M/A01), on the Web. Silent Guardian is "available now and ready for action," Raytheon promises. The company even discloses its range, which used to be closely held. It can "de-escalate aggression" at 250 yards, Raytheon states in its best defense-speak. To tempt you further, you can also download a 30-second video, with an up-tempo soundtrack.

From http://www.microwavenews.com/


The Silent Guardian™ protection system is a revolutionary less-than-lethal directed energy application that employs millimeter wave technology to repel individuals or crowds without causing injury. The system provides a zone of protection that saves lives, protects assets and minimizes collateral damage. Silent Guardian produces precise effects at longer ranges than current less-than-lethal systems and provides real-time ability to establish intent and de-escalate aggression. Various commercial and military applications include law enforcement, checkpoint security, facility protection, force protection and peacekeeping missions. The system is available now and ready for action.


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420AP_Air_Force_Weapons.html

Nonlethal(???) weapons touted for use on U.S. citizens

By LOLITA C. BALDOR
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

WASHINGTON -- Nonlethal weapons such as high-power microwave devices should be used on American citizens in crowd-control situations before they are used on the battlefield, the Air Force secretary said Tuesday.

Domestic use would make it easier to avoid questions in the international community over any possible safety concerns, said Secretary Michael Wynne.

"If we're not willing to use it here against our fellow citizens, then we should not be willing to use it in a wartime situation," said Wynne. "(Because) if I hit somebody with a nonlethal weapon and they claim that it injured them in a way that was not intended, I think that I would be vilified in the world press."

The Air Force has funded research into nonlethal weapons, but he said the service isn't likely to spend more money on development until injury issues are reviewed by medical experts and resolved. (So we will be Guinea pigs??)

Nonlethal weapons generally can weaken people if they are hit with the beam. Some of the weapons can emit short, intense energy pulses that also can be effective in disabling some electronic devices.


ARE THESE "NON-LETHAL" WEAPONS IN REALITY "LETHAL"? Let's take a look...

<snip>

AFRL says that the 3-millimetre wavelength radiation penetrates only 0.3 millimetres into the skin, rapidly heating the surface above the 45 °C pain threshold. At 50 °C, they say the pain reflex makes people pull away automatically in less than a second - it's said to feel like fleetingly touching a hot light bulb. Someone would have to stay in the beam for 250 seconds before it burnt the skin, the lab says, giving "ample margin between intolerable pain and causing a burn".

Little data
But critics question the AFRL's claims that the weapon's undisclosed exposure levels are safe. John Pike of think tank Globalsecurity.org fears that the beam power needed to scare people may be too close to the level that would injure them.

Air Force scientists helped set the present skin safety threshold of 10 milliwatts per square centimetre in the early 1990s, when little data was available, says Louis Slesin, editor of Microwave News.

That limit covers exposure to steady fields for several minutes to an hour - but heating a layer of skin 0.3 mm thick to 50 °C in just one second requires much higher power and may pose risks to the cornea, which is more sensitive than skin. A study published last year in the journal Health Physics showed that exposure to 2 watts per square centimetre for three seconds could damage the corneas of rhesus monkeys.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1470


<snip>

Details of US microwave-weapon tests revealed
22 July 2005

NewScientist.com news service
David Hambling


VOLUNTEERS taking part in tests of the Pentagon's "less-lethal" microwave weapon were banned from wearing glasses or contact lenses due to safety fears. The precautions raise concerns about how safe the Active Denial System (ADS) weapon would be if used in real crowd-control situations.

The ADS fires a 95-gigahertz microwave beam, which is supposed to heat skin and to cause pain but no physical damage (New Scientist, 27 October 2001, p 26). Little information about its effects has been released, but details of tests in 2003 and 2004 were revealed after Edward Hammond, director of the US Sunshine Project - an organisation campaigning against the use of biological and non-lethal weapons - requested them under the Freedom of Information Act.

<snip>

The ADS weapon's beam causes pain within 2 to 3 seconds and it becomes intolerable after less than 5 seconds. People's reflex responses to the pain is expected to force them to move out of the beam before their skin can be burnt.

But Neil Davison, co-ordinator of the non-lethal weapons research project at the University of Bradford in the UK, says controlling the amount of radiation received may not be that simple. "How do you ensure that the dose doesn't cross the threshold for permanent damage?" he asks. "What happens if someone in a crowd is unable, for whatever reason, to move away from the beam? Does the weapon cut out to prevent overexposure?"

During the experiments, people playing rioters put up their hands when hit and were given a 15-second cooling-down period before being targeted again. One person suffered a burn in a previous test when the beam was accidentally used on the wrong power setting.(!!!!)

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18725095.600


To conclude... Air Force secretary Wynne is INSANE. These weapons are clearly capable of being LETHAL! PLEASE someone tell me they can not do this with out congressional approval. Then please tell me Congress would NEVER DO THIS!!

:scared:



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. Jeez...Kinda like being Wellstoned right on the ground....
Mommy, I don't like this new fascism...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
39. Well, that should keep us in our "Free Speach Zone"
And what if the soldier or Policeman at the controls
is a bit of a sadist?

Nah, who ever heard of one that is?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sugar Smack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. I remember telling my boss about this.
He thought I was MAKING IT UP. :grr: :nuke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. Fazers on stun! Fazers on kill!
I bet W is itching to unleash this puppy on some 'terrists'.


How sick will we become before we all die?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. Weapons like this need to be BANNED
rearranging cells and cooking people alive
is not humane by any measure.

what a horrible weapon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. I remember when the info about this weapon was first known at DU.
The more cynical of us knew it would be used here against us. :(
We had our esteemed 'president' shown standing in the Oval Office trying to justify torture the other night.
I don't see even a speed bump in the way of this microwave weapon. :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. that is what I was afraid of
they will vote for anything that has to do with "the war on terra".

:cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. I remember it too Lars,
It's only a matter of time before it's used against us. Geesh..would they have used it in New Orleans? What crowd would they deem appropriate? Will it be used on protestors holding signs? Union people on strike? College kids after a football game? Homeless people?

What's happened to our country..

:-(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. Dude...
There haven't been speed bumps of any kind for anything in the last five years...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Nothing 'concrete', has there?
Just words.:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. Our Tax Dollars Hard At Work Against Us
Damn makes ya feel good to be an American... huh?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
8. Militarist Severely Out of Touch With Reality Syndrome (MSOTWRS)
"If we're not willing to use it here against our fellow citizens, then we should not be willing to use it in a wartime situation," said Wynne. "(Because) if I hit somebody with a nonlethal weapon and they claim that it injured them in a way that was not intended, I think that I would be vilified in the world press."

"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
10. That's civilization for you
Everything it has ever done, no matter where it has been done, has been about control. This type of instrument would only make sense. In fact, if things like this weren't in the making, that would go against everything we've been doing for thousands of years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pk_du Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
11. For anyone that thinks this is "okay" ..I have one word to add
EYEBALLS!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
53. And another..
Fetus.

Personally I'm very glad this general came out with this statement. He's high-profile enough that it has a shot of getting mainstream attention.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. Air Force Secretary Wynne fits right in
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. So, I'm thinking tin foil suits...
...or mylar. Light, easy to move in, and should effectively repel microwave rays.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
36. Like these?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
46. There's always the "Geezer Shield"
Have the perimeter of the protest liberally sprinkled with old folks with pacemakers. If they're really trying to be "nonlethal", they they can't use these without offing Grannya morgueful of Grannies...

(what's really creepy is that I'm not sure if this is dark humor, or a dreadfully necessary tactic against these things)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #46
63. How about Veterans with steel pins and metal in their skull.
What about stents? Turn this on a crowd and watch people explode. Bastards!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
14. 95 gigahertz barley counts as microwave wavelengths.
Edited on Wed Sep-13-06 09:22 AM by wuushew
I wonder if protesters could hold something like a metal screen door window in front of them while throwing rocks at fascists?

At 95 gigahertz the wavelength of the microwave translates to about 3 millimeters. The energy could be absorbed by a barrier the same way a bread-tie absorbs the energy of a domestic microwave oven.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. The only problem would be the heat...
I know many metals heat up when exposed to microwaves. I'm thinking of a design here, a simple sheild, basically using a screen from a screen door, framed, would be effective, as long as you have no direct contact with the metal. Another idea is a head to toe type of suit, insulated with a heat resistant lining, with the screen on the outside, but it would be hidden from obvious view, under your clothes, and you would wear a lined hat with a drop screen for the face.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Any idea what the wattage of this weapon is?
A metal mesh shaped like Roman tower shield held with a wooden handle might provide enough protection unless they are frying you with several hundred watts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. If you ground it, you should be fine...
NOT WITH YOUR BODY, obviously, though I don't know if wood would be enough, last thing you need is for the damned thing to fall apart due to fire. I was thinking of designing it after the "Riot" Shields of the police, which themselves are roughly based on the Roman Tower shield. I'm thinking of a simple composite, perhaps fibreglass based. It would have to be non-conductive, heat resistant, and light. Have some wires or posts at the bottom, and basically slam it into the ground and duck behind it, that should provide some protection. Though, it would be obvious what it is for, so you would probably end up getting pelted with rubber bullets and tear gas, not to mention clubs etc.

I like the suit idea, only because if you designed it right, it would be practically invisible, though you would feel a little stiff wearing it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #25
34. Its Product data sheet provides no clue...
You can look here:

http://www.raytheon.com/products/silent_guardian/

It does use an AC/DC converter, so I don't think its THAT powerful, just directed. As far as I know, this thing CAN be defeated, just like every other less lethal device out there, just takes a little brainpower and testing. I guess I COULD pick up a spare microwave oven(1000+ Wattage), take the "gun" out of it, and see if such a screen can prevent a glass of water from boiling at a distance of a few meters. After testing to see if it CAN boil the water without the screen, of course. That's 30-40 bucks down the drain, all for the greater good of course.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. Go chop down the phone pole...eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
37. 250 yards?
I think I read that somewhere in the links above.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. like beekeepers. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Less obvious though...
Think of those fisherman's hats(I don't know what they are called), lined with this screen, the ONLY time a tinfoil hat actually makes sense! :) Anyways, rolled up within its circular flap is the drop screen, so let's say this weapon is pointed at you, and you begin to feel it, you pull up the flap and the screen covers your face and neck, all around your head, and you are now protected. It wouldn't be lined, so visibility wouldn't be hindered, and be practically invisible from a distance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
33. My God. We're already coming up with defensive measures
to protect us from our own government. This is surreal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BluePatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
57. No kidding *shiver*
Looks like DU engineers are up to the task, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
50. microwave is from 3Ghz up to Infra Red
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://lasp.colorado.edu/cassini/education/Electromagnetic%2520Spectrum.htm&h=792&w=612&sz=72&tbnid=8UhKYgLrP6uFaM:&tbnh=143&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Delectromagnetic%2Bspectrum&start=1&sa=X&oi=images&ct=image&cd=1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum#Microwaves
Microwaves

The super high frequency (SHF) and extremely high frequency (EHF) of Microwaves come next up the frequency scale. Microwaves are waves which are typically short enough to employ tubular metal waveguides of reasonable diameter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_high_frequency
Super high frequency (or SHF) refers to radio frequencies (RF) in the range of 3 GHz and 30 GHz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_high_frequency
Extremely high frequency is the highest radio frequency band. EHF runs the range of frequencies from 30 to 300 gigahertz, above which electromagnetic radiation is considered to be low (or far) infrared light...


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
15. Seems to me we'll soon find out if the American military
supports the people of this country like they expect us to support them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
texanshatingbush Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
16. Someone please bolster my memory.......
In the last couple of months, I read articles in which "arab" physicians (ie, physicians in Lebanon or Iraq or Palestine or somewhere, perhaps "muslin" physicians would be a better term)were reporting seeing highly unusual "battlefield injuries" or "causes of death". I think one article alluded to the injuries as being "cooked flesh".

Does anyone else remember this? And if so, could it be an indication of use of these microwave devices?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I remember seeing it as well
I believe the casualties were in Southern Lebanon the City of Tyre?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fed-up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
27. see my post number 26 below for link to story nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
65. I think it was Palestine
Look for a phrase like "physicians baffled" or something like that.

They were describing horrific injuries like burst internal organs, but no sign of external trauma.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
18. I wonder if those Microwave screens will be effective against it...
Seriously, a rubber suit, with small plated aluminum screen covering it, could probably block the radiation. If you don't know what I'm talking about, look at your Microwave oven door. Microwaves have a pretty short frequency, they can carry a LOT of power, and go through most things, except for certain metals. If you can prevent a metal from heating up, let's say with a ceramic lining, then you should be immune from this weapon, if there is no exposed skin of course, or it could be used as a shield.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
43. Remember, though, it's 3mm wavelength
Remember, though, it's 3mm wavelength so the openings in your
mesh/screen/what-have-you would have to be no bigger than about
0.75 mm or the microwaves will pass through unhindered; that's
a much finer pitch than your average aluminum window screen.

Solid aluminum foil sounds like a much better bet, but kinda
cuts down on your ability to see. Maybe you'll need InSnO-coated
eyewear?

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Already took that into consideration, post 44. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. Remember, though, ...
> Already took that into consideration, post 44.

Remember, though, your goal isn't to absorb the microwaves
but just to make sure they don't get through to the user.
So don't mess around with any "lossy" materials wherever
you can avoid it. Just go for a high-conductance metal
with very small perforations.

Any energy you reflect (instead of absorb) doesn't need
to be dissipated as heat.

Tesha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
22. Interesting that this is the Air Force which has been taken over by
RW Christian fascists.

Of all the arms of the military, the Air Force is the screwiest now. I put nothing past them.

Would there be any way to stop the beams, much like we are told NOT to use anything metal in a microwave?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pfitz59 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
23. Getting warmer in the free-speech zone.....
Yikes! My skin is crawling!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
24. Jiffy Pop Patriots
That poppin' sound you hear is the sound of freedom on the march.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fed-up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
26. some threads on microwave weapons from the Randi Rhodes message board
sorry I am running out the door and don't have time to pull out the individual stories

http://forums.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?showtopic=62262&hl=microwave+weapons
MICROWAVING IRAQ - “Pacifying” Rays, Pose New Hazards To Iraqis
Aug 16 2005, 08:16 AM



http://forums.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?showtopic=62262&hl=microwave+weapons
Israel is microwaving Gaza Palestinians?, look at this description by local doctors
Sep 4 2006, 11:32 PM


http://forums.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?showtopic=62262&hl=microwave+weapons
StarWars in Iraq?
May 30 2006, 11:56 PM
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #26
40. thank you for the links
this is outrageous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
30. My government scares the holy shit outta me
Goddamn them all to hell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
32. So, when we protest, we need to make tinfoil shields and hats?
Would tin or aluminum foil (or even those nifty NASA foil warm blankets) work to foil this bullshit fascism machine?

J
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Look at post 13-34, give or take a few...
Working on a solution as we speak.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
38. We are Becoming Like the Iran Righties Fear
This is what happens when hatred and fear overcome people. They become the very things they hate and fear.

Anyone still have an objection to calling the GOP fascists?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
42. Silent but deadly...
Honestly, do you think that the military is going to make a honest to god non-lethal weapon? Pul-eeeeze...PUL-EEEEEZE.

It only becomes non-lethal later on for PR purposes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
44. Possible countermeasure against this device...
Ideas I'm kicking around, OK, people have seen bulletproof vests, particularly the more advanced ones using ceramic plates to absorb rifle bullets. All right, one good thing about this weapon, it isn't physical, therefor, the THICKNESS of any suit really isn't the issue, the problem is this, flexiblity and weight.

All right, I'm thinking of a suit that is designed to minimize the exposure of skin to this device. The most obvious solution is to use a metal screen to block Microwaves, unfortunately, if anyone has ever seen metal in a microwave oven, particulary really good conductors, like aluminum, they spark and can also heat up. This is a danger by itself.

So, what we need is a suit that both uses said metal to block the microwaves, and in addition is insulated from both heat and electricity. Most common materials, polyester, cotton, nylon, etc., melt or burn in extreme heat. One solution I was thinking of is expensive, using a composite material that is resistant to heat and electricity. Many of these materials are hard to come by, and many are regulated for various reasons.

Another idea is to use a cheaper, more down to earth material, kiln fired clay. Now, before people ask, I'm not talking coffee mugs here, but aerated(for lightness), composited ceramic, similar to, but much thinner(and lighter) than those used by military and police personnel. Its not supposed to stop a bullet, but rather supposed to stop short frequency radiation. Basically large plates for parts of the body that don't need that much flexibility, with much smaller plates for joints.

Such plates would be designed in a rather simple way, the ceramic only serves one purpose, insulation, each piece will be composed of two ceramic plates with a screen of metal sandwiched in between them. The total thickness shouldn't be much more than a few milimeters thick. This can then be sewn together into a suit of many different peices that's put together with velcro

I was going for a simple screen suit, except there is two major flaws with such a design, one is no insulation without using comparatively rare and expensive materials, and the second is that the metal screen wouldn't be like a screen on a storm door. It would more likely be like the screen on high end audio equipment, extremely stiff and durable, but not flexible.

The point of the suit isn't so much to STOP the radiation, but to REDUCE it to tolerable levels, if the microwave weapon is directed at you, you will probably feel uncomfortably warm, however, the ceramic will absorb a LOT of heat, and therefore you won't cook inside the suit. Also, another thing, I was thinking about the head and face, basically an emergency helmet would probably be called for, one that covers the entire face, leaves space for the eyes though an air exposed screen, that type of thing, only to be worn when the weapon is directed at you.

Another concern, hopefully said suit would actually be invisible to the police and other authorities, for it should fit UNDER normal clothing, weather dependent of course. Both I and others have mentioned using a metal screen shield, the only major flaw in that is that its like raising a big red flag to the authorities, basically they will use other methods to subdue those carrying said shields. That's part of my reason for thinking of this design, making the suit as invisible as possible should be a goal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
meldroc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #44
56. Not bad. I would highly recommend eye & genital protection.
Edited on Wed Sep-13-06 12:56 PM by meldroc
The eyes and the genitals (testicles and ovaries) are most vulnerable to microwave emmisions. Exposure to microwaves from a kitchen microwave oven can cause cataracts (the cornea and lens of the eye are literally cooked like an egg white), and can cause sterility.

For the groin & abdominal area, I'd suggest covering them completely with a layer of mylar or aluminum to keep the microwaves at bay. For the face, I'd suggest wearing goggles with a thin, see-through metallic layer on the lenses. The rest of the face and head should be covered with mesh. Ideally, the entire body should be surrounded with mesh. Mesh headwear w/ foil-layered goggles, mesh shirt & pants, mesh gloves & shoes. Try to make sure there are no gaps between the items of clothing - microwaves will leak through, so try to put together some sort of seal.

You're basically trying to put together a wearable Faraday cage. To prevent the mesh or foil layer from heating up or arcing, I'd recommend trying to ground it. Metal straps on the bottoms of the shoes will be slightly helpful, depending on what you're walking on (I don't think asphalt or concrete conducts electricity especially well, but if it's a rainy day and you're walking in puddles, you'll get all the grounding you need.)

It won't be perfect, but it might delay blindness and sterility. To know for sure, you'd need to test these countermeasures in a controlled environment, using the knowledge of trained RF engineers, otherwise we're just guessing.

Oh, and the resulting protective wear will be completely obvious and look absolutely ridiculous. If you're in the middle of a demonstration and the cops are using microwave weapons and see you wearing this, they'll Rodney-King you first (if they don't shoot you.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
47. Let me see if I understand this properly
we are supposedly at war with a very dangerous enemy, and the MI Complex is designing weapons to be used against US Citizens?

What's wrong with this picture?

I guess citizens of the US who oppose BushCo's fascist regime are the real enemy here...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. You've reached the correct conclusion. Well done! (NT)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. Well, as long as we are clear on who BushCo thinks is are the
real enemies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
52. Before long, tinfoil hats will be officially banned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
meldroc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
54. Disturbing thought: This is the perfect torture device.
Edited on Wed Sep-13-06 01:00 PM by meldroc
Seriously, they might already have a few set up at Gitmo or at some of the CIA's secret prisons.

In an interrogation room, you have the perfect environment to carefully adjust the power level to cause searing, intense pain, without leaving any obvious marks. Heck, for psychological effect, you could strap aluminum foil to the prisoner so he can watch it start arcing when the microwave's turned on. What comes to mind is that scene from The Empire Strikes Back where Darth Vader tortures Han Solo, then remarks to Boba Fett "He will not be permanently damaged."

Or heck, if we're talking about secret prisons, and the people in them have been "disappeared", they might be sadistic enough to execute a detainee by nuking him alive like a TV dinner. The blood curdling screams may encourage other prisoners to be more cooperative...

The scariest thought is that I know in my heart that Bush, Cheney and company have absolutely no conscience. If they think using these microwave "crowd control" devices as torture devices might help "fight the war on terror", they won't hesitate to use them in this way. They're that fucking sick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
55. The idea is to use this on protestors and other anti government personnel
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
58. Microwave weapons already used in Lebanon?
"
sponsor Aug 12, 8:50pm
New and unkown deadly weapons used by Israeli forc
New and unkown deadly weapons used by Israeli forces 'direct energy' weapons, chemical and/or biological agents, in a macabre experiment of future warfare Professor Paola Manduca, GlobalResearch.ca August 7, 2006 By now there are countless reports, from hospitals, witnesses, armament experts and journalists that strongly suggest that in the present offensive of Israeli forces against Lebanon and Gaza 'new weapons' are being used. New and strange symptoms are reported amongst the wounded and the dead. Bodies with dead tissues and no apparent wounds; 'shrunken' corpses; civilians with heavy damage to lower limbs that require amputation, which is nevertheless followed by unstoppable necrosis and death; descriptions of extensive internal wounds with no trace of shrapnel, corpses blackened but not burnt, and others heavily wounded that did not bleed. Many of these descriptions suggest the possibility that the new weapons used include 'direct energy' weapons, and chemical and/or biological agents, in a sort of macabre experiment of future warfare, where there is no respect for anything: International rules (from the Geneva Convention to the treaties on biological and chemical weapons), refugees, hospitals and the Red Cross, not to mention the people, their future, their children, the environment, which is poisoned through dissemination of Depleted Uranium and toxic substances released after oil and chemical depots are bombed."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. dreadful smell
What Types of Gruesome Weapons Did Israel Use in Lebanon?
by Nada Sayad
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=SAY20060823&articleId=3054


How is Israel killing the Lebanese?

A question that the doctors in the South are trying to find an answer for, since they are receiving the dead bodies of the victims especially those hit by the airplanes on the streets.

Torn ends, dreadful smell, burn signs without being burned… a quick death caused by a sudden shut down of the nervous system accompanied by the coagulation of the blood which prevents hemorrhage.

<snip>

Awaiting the results "Assafir news paper is in direct communication with doctors and hospitals in the various regions of Lebanon to collect testemonies about the cases they are examining. Some doctors who have examined the corpses killed by air strikes have already noted their astonishment, but could not identify the nature of the cases received either because of the siege, the lack of Laboratory materials or because these are cases never recorded before. While some doctors find it improbable that Israel has used chemical or phosphoric weapons in the war on Lebanon, Lebanese Army sources have mentioned "bombs" with special fillings, some of which are internationally forbidden.

<snip>

In the mean time, we would need to pursue the inquiry regarding the possible use of "electro-magnetic" weapons by the United States in Iraq.


I spoke to someone just last night who is in touch with the Canadian-Lebanese community.
He told me that people returning from Lebanon talk of the strange smell of the rotting bodies. Still very gross, but not as expected. They say a bomb that does this penetrates the earth and then detonates. The microwaves rise up through the ground and cook everything it their path.

Is there no depth that insanity will not take them?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. thank you for the link
truly horrible!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Flying Dream Blues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
59. I can't believe this...and yet, I can. That's the sad part. Kick/nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
62. Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne should resign.
I want this man, and anyone else that advocates using military weapons on civilians, out of the military. A military officer swears allegiance to the constitution and the people. Call your Congressman and have this guy put in the brig.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
64. target: Peaceful Protest
Lets see. . . Children, seniors, people with glasses or contact lenses, people who might get confined for over 250 seconds and not be able to "back away"...

check check and check

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 06th 2024, 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC