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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 03:45 PM
Original message
I am a Nazi appeaser….
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile--hoping it will eat him last"
--Winston Churchill

It was May 4, 2004. I was sitting in my basement watching the Taguba Report on C-span. The stories coming out of Iraq about prisoner abuse had really caught my attention. Up until that day, I believed in the fantasy world that was being spun by Bush and his cohorts. I believed that 9/11 story was cut and dry. I believed Al-Qeada sent that Anthrax through the mail to attack our media and Senators. I believed Saddam had provided aid and comfort to our enemies and was instrumental in executing the attacks on 9/11. I believed Iraq had WMD and I believed that our nation was totally in the right.

Until that day, I listened to Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck daily. I watched Fox news and believed what they told me. I believed Democrats were cowardly and weak. I believed Republicans were righteous and strong. I believed Bush was really a cowboy and I believed Cheney was a decent and honest man. Looking back, it amazes me how completely I believed all of these lies.

It wasn’t until I watched an Army General stand up in a press conference and openly and unabashedly distort the truth that the spell that enthralled me for so long completely dissolved. Maybe I wouldn’t have noticed the distortion if I hadn’t been an MP for a time. Maybe it was the way the “brass” was abandoning the soldiers or maybe it was the lack of accountability that was hanging those ignorant weak-willed kids out to dry and leaving the leadership unscathed, I can’t say for sure.

All I remember is sitting in my basement as acid began to burn a hole in the illusion. I remember as soon as that report was finished, I went directly to the “net” and began researching anything and everything I could about Abu Ghraib and looking for the truth. I thought surely there must be more information available. I thought that this gnawing skepticism could surely be appeased by solid facts and that my concerns were unfounded. But like the sound of a beating heart under the floor boards, the truth was eating away at the comfortable deception.

It wasn’t long after, that I took a very hard look at everything I believed. After countless hours of researching, studying, reading, watching and finally listening, I came to believe that 9/11 was too a lie; that the story weaved about the Anthrax attacks was a lie; that Saddam did not possess WMD and had nothing to do with 9/11. I came to believe that Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck were bald-faced liars; I realized FOX news was the "mouth of Sauron". I came to see the cravenly greed-worshipping Republican cogs in Bush’s machine for what they were. Within a very short amount of time, the perception that America was always just and always right lay shattered like a slippery glass. The lie was revealed and that’s when I truly knew fear.

“What sort of power exists that could allow these people to perpetuate this lie? How could they deceive me so thoroughly? How much power do they have? If they could lie to an entire country so completely that my countrymen would gleefully attack, torture and kill people who never had any intention of doing us harm; how can this power ever be defeated? Against such power, how can one man possibly hope to stand against this?” I would love to say that I didn’t despair; that I wasn’t afraid; that I had even the slightest bit of hope for our future as a nation.

With my “reality” laid bare, it was the Democrats that began to build me back up. I began to listen to John Kerry and John Edwards. I listened to their speeches and even read their entire “Plan for America”. I began to hear the voices of opposition and reason. I remember hearing a speech delivered by Elizabeth Edwards in a rundown gymnasium in some little town. I remember remarking on her strength, intellect and I marveled at the core of goodness in her. I remember almost cheering when Barbara Boxer valiantly stood up and challenged the election. I remember reveling in the brilliance of the “Bloggers” as they constantly and incessantly attacked and exposed lie after lie. I remember finally finding my first real heroes in John Conyers and Barbara Boxer.

In a very short time, utter despair was replaced with something infinitely more powerful; Faith, Hope and Love. This new wine that was being poured into me led me to others past who struggled against the terror of tyrants. I found myself reading Emerson and Adams, Jefferson and Otis, Martin, Gandhi and of course Jesus. I began to fill my soul with the words from our modern day Patriots and the passion that drove them began to become my passion. As I began to accept this new doctrine, I began to change from an ignorant 33 year old child into a Man. The road has indeed been long and full of heartbreak and pain but here at last, my eyes are open, my head is held high and my spirit is clean. I have been transformed by you good people into something valuable; not only valuable to myself but my fellow Man. Today, I call myself a Progressive Christian Democrat when just a few short years ago, I was an Atheistic Sycophantic wannabe-Republican. Today, where once was ignorance and fear there is curiosity and passion. I have been changed for the better and even if I were to die today at the hands of one of Bush’s Nazi’s, I would never regret or renounce this glorious journey.

A few days ago, Donald Rumsfeld stood up and called me and those who think like me “Nazi appeasers”. At first I was completely outraged. For Rumsfeld, of all people, to stand there and accuse me of “appeasing” him and his kind burned a hole right through me. I was so fucking mad I couldn’t stand it. But after the initial rage wore off and I had some time to really think about what made me so mad, I realized I was mad because he was right. I am a “Nazi appeaser”.

Because I have not done all that is within my power, to stand up to these Nazi’s; because I have not risked life, fortune or even comfort to fight against these Nazi’s; because I have done so little to fight back, I have appeased them. I have sat back and allowed others to step into the mouth of a crocodile while I ignorantly prayed that it would grow fat and weak. I have appeased these Nazi’s and Rumsfeld has laid bare that harsh reality to my soul.

When I learned how to find comfort, I turned to the voices of the past and the passion of the present. Now, I’m turning again to those voices and I am going to learn how to fight. Mr. Rumsfeld was right, I have been appeasing them and that shames me to no end; but you people have not built me to live in shame. I will be a “Nazi appeaser” no longer. I am going to learn how to fight these monsters and I am going to help restore the majestic promise of America. Call them Nazi’s or Neocons, it matters little. This ideology of hate, greed, lust, deception and terror must be defeated forever and must never be appeased. I vow to never again allow myself to be deceived by their evil and from this day forward, do everything in my limited power to end this reign of terror. I will be a “Nazi appeaser” no longer. “You can chain me, you can torture me, you can even destroy this body” but I will never appease our Nazi’s again.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Recommended.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Excellent essay. Bravo!
:thumbsup:
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Beautiful!
And welcome to the big tent.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for your "confession".
I think once people realize that they are backing a Nazi-like regime and if they understand what a Nazi really stood for, then the rest of the truth of the sham of this government starts to reveal itself.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. very well done!
kicked and recommended.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Welcome and congratulations for seeing the light. K&R eom
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&N. thanks for letting us know there *IS* hope for the deepest Kool Aid
swiller

:yourock: for your courage to face the facts and grow!
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. Enjoyed reading this very much
You are a great writer.....
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blue cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. Woohoo!
Wonderful post!
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. Me too
Fascist Appeasers
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/090106R.shtml

Nicely done and well said. K&R.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. another keeper, Will! Thanks for saying if for all of us. n/t
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Hav Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. .
Nice story.
I'm not an American and it somehow reminded me of how my interest in American politics grew, especially after the 2000 election. Even though I didn't know much about Gore, his loss really shocked me because I wanted him to win so much. The following months, I appreciated several political sites to learn more but also to entertain me with their humour.
Yet, I also learned that there are those who spin the truth on the left as well. Therefore, one always has to keep in mind to question every information one gathers. Even or maybe especially if it sounds tempting.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. Be very careful in what you believe. Trust but verify, always.
Edited on Sat Sep-02-06 05:02 PM by leveymg
The greatest danger is the disillusionment that often happens to converts. People who go from one strong position to another, as you describe yourself, tend to take any further disappointment very hard. Those twice burned, may never be able to trust again.

Sometimes, I think the real struggle isn't about Left vs. Right. It's about those who think for themselves versus the true believers. I'm not sure what the distribution is across the ideological spectrum, but neither side has a monopoly on reason, compassion and patriotism. Progressives and conservatives need to keep an open mind about each other, and learn to work together against frauds, incompetents, and would-be dictators.

Congratulations on being able to change your mind, and admit it. That's a sign of a healthy mind. K&R. :thumbsup:
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StrictlyRockers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I have great respect for someone who admits their mistakes.
I have even greater repect for those who make an effort to attone for past mistakes.
You are an excellent writier. I enjoyed reading this piece.

Peace.

SR
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Peace.
May we all learn from mistakes and try to forgive ourselves and others.

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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. Righteous
and well thought !

I hope this fine piece gets spread to all corners of the net
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ForeverWinter Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. Wow
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. Well done, mike!
Recommended.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
18. Amen
:loveya:
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
19. Well done. K & R nt
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
20. K & R, my friend ...
:kick: & Recommended!
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. Wow. Thank you.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
22. Absolutely beautiful. Inspiring.
I share in your guilt. When things were going well, I felt I could ignore the process. I dropped out. Where was I in 1987 when the Fairness Doctrine was dumped?

But here we are. Your journey was much greater than mine. I salute you on your willingness to see. When the towers fell, I jumped out of my seat, running. I knew it was time.

I get such a good feeling from your post. A strength. We shall overcome. Both our own weaknesses, and their oppression. We shall uncover the truth.

Your conversion is much more powerful than you know. Those around you will see the power in it. Share it.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
23. Chills ran up and down my spine.
Powerful words, sir, powerful words. Perhaps you were inspired by Keith's stand against Rumsferatu?

Please send your commentary to buzzflash. It deserves to be read by as wide an audience as possible.

Bravo, sir. :patriot:
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badgerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
24. May your name be legion...
we need lots more good folk like you! :hug: :toast:
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. That's sort of ironic...
Edited on Sat Sep-02-06 11:30 PM by mikelewis
I often refer to Bush as Legion. In the Bible, that was the name given to a man through whom a legion of demons spoke. When Jesus confronted the man, the demons despaired and begged him to spare them. Instead of casting the demons back into hell, he forced them into a herd of swine. The demon-swine quickly ran into the sea and allegedly drowned. However, it's entirely possible that these swine didn't drown; it's possible they made a 2000 year swim and washed ashore in Crawford.

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badgerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
42. I keep doing this, don't I...
:hi: I meant that may there be many more good people -like yourself- who have experienced the same epiphany/satori/awakening/tearing of the veil/call it what you will that you have.
That's all.
Honest.

I think the 'ranch in Crawford' is just window dressing...Bush isn't a native Texan, no matter how tight his jeans or how much he swaggers in the designer cowboy boots...
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
26. In this battle, Impeachment is our objective
Edited on Sat Sep-02-06 11:46 PM by pat_k
The battle lines are clear -- Fascists v. Anti-Fascists.

When we established our Constitution, we yielded NONE of our Sovereignty to ANY institution we created, but when we vested the power to impeach in the legislative branch, we gave Congress -- our voice -- greater power than the judicial or executive branches.

The power to Impeach is our defense against the subversion of our constitutional democracy by the President or other holders of high office in the executive or judicial branches.

The battle to Impeach and reassert our collective sovereignty will ultimately play out in Congress, but it is We the People who are the soldiers in the fight.

This battle will be fought on many fronts -- across fences, over kitchen tables, in meeting halls, in the halls of Congress, and in local Congressional offices. Our power is in our numbers. Our ultimate weapon is the truth.
  • Some of us will confront our leaders, and each other, with the horrible truth about the stolen elections of 2000 and 2004.

  • Some of us will fight to stamp out euphemisms, challenging commentors, public figures, and each other, to use powerful and precise language. We know that stark truths can only be conveyed in stark language with words like Fascism, Treason, War Crimes, and Stolen Elections.

  • Some of us will challenge others on "our side" who believe we must refrain from demanding Impeachment.

  • Some of us will support candidates who are demanding Impeachment with our time and our dollars.

  • Some of us will write a single letter or make a single call.

  • Some of us will instill hope and support our fellow citizens as they join the battle in ways both big and small.

  • Letters and calls demonstrate our numbers -- a critical task in the fight -- but many of our leaders are trapped behind a wall of rationalization that makes it impossible for them to respond, no matter how numerous the calls to action.

    Some of us will chip away at that wall in meetings with our Senators, our Congressman, or members of their staffs. We will elicit and effectively challenge the beliefs that make them run the other way when Impeachment is even mentioned.

You label yourself an appeaser, but I suspect you have already fought battles on one or more of these, or other, critical fronts.

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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. While it's true, I haven't been all that idle...
I'm reminded of the words of one fireman posted shortly after 9/11. He was involved in the search and rescue and he had this to say...


Now, its time for me to go home. And although I feel as proud about the work i have done, there is another feeling.
The feeling of "Did I do enough?", "Could I have digged more?", "Why do I get to leave when so many can't?" and ultimatly the feeling that I am abandoning my brothers.
http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=17749


Over these past years, I have evangelized my new doctrine and learned how to combat the spiral of silence. I have led a few new souls into the light and, in some small part, benefited the side of "good". Yet I know beyond a doubt, that I could have and should have done more. Ultimately, if we lose our country to fascists, it will be because we did not fight hard enough or risk enough to win. If our Founding Fathers had merely written the Declaration of Independence and then failed to follow through with action, our country as we know it would not exist. It was because they were willing to die for Liberty that others began to envision how they would live with Freedom.

Our Nazi's are willing to kill to get what they want. So if we fight them, we must be willing to die. I wasn't ready for that battle but Rummy's words rang like the words I heard and cheered so long ago, "Bring it on!" Fuck these guys; I'd rather die then to allow my children to grow up in a world ruled by tyrants. To stand up and fight, the way Martin and Gandhi fought, the way Jesus fought, I need to be ready to suffer the scourging that will surely come. I wasn't ready for battle until I heard what that bastard had to say and until I faced the stinging truth in his words. I'm ready now and if they want me, they'll know where to find me... I'll be un-hooded, upon a lamp-stand.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. As they say, with every crisis comes opportunity. . .
Edited on Sun Sep-03-06 07:44 AM by pat_k
. . .The opportunity to test ourselves, the opportunity to connect with others, the opportunity to create powerful associations that endure beyond the current battle. . .

You are not alone. The crisis we face is compelling folks to act. Many the most active people today were, not long ago, trapped in a vicious cycle of inaction=>hopelessness=>helplessness=>isolation=>inaction.

Take hope in the fact that our numbers can only go one way. When people learn the truth about the fascists and our stolen elections they do not unlearn it. Each day more and more people are learning the truth and being caught up in a virtuous cycle of action=>hope=>engagement=>connection=>action=>hope. . .

A word of caution. There is a fine line between pushing ourselves and inspiring each other to be our best, and falling into the "nothing I/we can do is enough" trap.

Asserting our collective sovereignty is, by definition, a collective effort. Unfortunately, most Americans have some tendencies that can undermine our efforts.
  • We don't tend to think in collective terms. We value self-reliance and can have difficulty putting our trust in the efforts of others. As we learn to trust others to step up to the plate, we find that they seem to do a lot more "stepping up."

  • We tend to revere the "big sacrifices" made by individuals, often forgetting to give credit to the multitude of smaller contributions necessary for victory.

  • We revere efforts we believe are motivated by altruistic motives and devalue those we perceive as motivated by self-interest. Because we don't like to think of ourselves as being motivated by self-interest, we don't try to figure out what makes our participation rewarding; and we fail to create infrastructures that maximize those rewards.

  • When faced with an unknowable future, where the chances of a good or bad outcome are equal, we assume the worse, often stifling action and hope with predictions of futility.

It is nearly impossible to get a handle on the reality of our "collective sovereignty."
People engage across fences, around tables, in small pockets of activity. There is no vantage point from which the multitude of actions that contribute to our victories can be observed.

Even the actors rarely see the ripple effects of their actions. One call or letter can reach further and have greater impact than weeks of plodding. When we connect with others and act, the only thing we can know for sure of is that we are feeding a positive feedback loop of action=>hope=>engagement=>connection=>action=>hope that is sweeping up others.

Rescuing the United States from a fascist take over is not a conventional project. In this "project" the number of potential participants is so vast it is essentially limitless, and the nature of the "work" makes it impossible to judge the relative value of a given individuals efforts.

Our tendency to focus on the big, individual, efforts reinforces beliefs that cause people to steer clear of "politics." For example, the beliefs that
  • Civic and political participation is an onerous thing -- being involved requires great sacrifice and little reward.
  • No matter how time and energy an individual devotes, it is never enough.
  • Participation is so demanding, only a few, very special, people are willing and able to devote the necessary effort.


We can challenge these immobilizing beliefs by recognizing the incredibe value of small actions. Every individual that does ONE THING is a potential on ramp for others. As we watch the people who touch our lives get involved, without being consumed, we are far more likely dive in.

We need to understand that action motivated by purely altruistic motives is rare. The truth is that people are autonomous actors who are motivated by specific basic needs. We are attracted to activities that reward us by meeting some of those basic needs, and we are turned off by activities that undermine our needs.

If we want more people to participate in the fight against the fascist take over of our government, we need to understand what need people are seeking to meet through political participation, and to figure out ways to ensure that those needs are met. (See Motivating Citizen Action for more on the topic.

As grim as things are today, the future looks brighter to me than they did a few years ago . We are forward looking creatures. We are not so hot at seeing how far we have come, but not long ago, at least half this nation felt completely silenced by a world gone mad. It seemed that no one was giving voice to our frustration. If you had plucked me up during the Sunday shows in February of 2002 and plopped me down today, I would be thrilled with the transformation in the dialog.
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. I certainly hope you repost this reply in its own thread...
Wonderful stuff, simply wonderful.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. Wow ! What an excellent OP. K & R
What you wrote gives me hope for a friend of mine. I stopped talking to her for 2 years because she was a repuke, o'reilly watcher, et al. Now we talk, we just don't talk politics much.

I've felt for a long time that she is what she is just out of ignorance - just blindly believing, and actually, believing what her husband tells her to believe. It's really sad because the way she lives her life doesn't mesh with her political "beliefs". So, I try to get a fact in now and then - a little bit of truth once in awhile, and you give me hope that some day these things might take root.

I've always been a dem, but never thought much about it. I think a LOT about it now. I think a lot about politics. For the past couple of years, I've read everything I could read, learned about all the things I was so blissfully ignorant about, and most of all learned that I HAVE to fight in whatever small ways I can. If this mis-administration can wake me up, it should be able to wake anyone up.

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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
30. Great job!
You are my brother.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
31. I'm glad I decided to read your post.
The Nazi sympathizer title turned me off,we just had the nazi's here in Madison,WI. Just made me sick. So I didn't want to open your thread. After reading your thread though, it occurred to me, my family has lost so much financially for speaking out against this war. So that line in your post about willing to give up fortune to fight against this insanity has already begun. You are right. You risk that and more. Never ever give up.
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
32. Great, powerful essay.
Simply thank you.
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. Are you kidding?
I'm the one who should be thanking you guys. Thank you for all you believe and for all you do to provide a community where fear can be combated and truth can be found. These words I wrote are just my simple story but it was your passions that made this story possible. So thank you; a thousand times over.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
33. "Bush is Not a Nazi.. so Stop Saying That!" Classic Flash
Now that everyone's talking of fascism, and nazis and stuff I thought I'd share a golden oldie I created over three years ago when it was considered UNFashionable to call Bush, or his Grandaddy a Nazi Scumbag

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/bushnonazi.html

Turn up those speakers :)
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
36. K&R! I'm making a copy of this and it's going into our "library"......
giving everyone the fodder they need to convert their friends.....this one in particular to show how rational, thoughtful people make decisions!! Way to go mikelewis!!!! :applause:
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morgan2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
37. what does being a republican have to do with being an atheist?
Today, I call myself a Progressive Christian Democrat when just a few short years ago, I was an Atheistic Sycophantic wannabe-Republican.

Atheistic? Your conversion away from the right wing came along with a conversion to christianity? Somehow I doubt that..
Equating atheism with any sort of moral failing is not only wrong but insulting. Its the other side of the coin as those who constantly use the term "good christian." Like someone can't be a good person without being a christian.

Now its great and all that you've seen the idioc nature of Republican thought, but using terminology that equates anyone who doesn't believe in god with facist republicans is just as bad.
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Doubt what you like...
Edited on Sun Sep-03-06 01:49 PM by mikelewis
but it's true nonetheless. The Christianity practiced by the Right is an apostasy and it held no appeal for me whatsoever. It's not that I knew it was an apostasy at the time, mind you, but the rhetoric didn't interest me at all. It was only when I shifted politically that I began to attack that "institution" and to do so, I began to look for inconsistencies in their doctrine. This led me to read more and more of the Bible and soon I began to see the underlying truth. I now relate more to Gandhi's perception of Christianity when he said, "I like your Christ but I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

The Right has taken something that was meant to lift people out of despair and with it cause nothing but pain and suffering. My boss is a hard-line fundie and we talk about religion often. He keeps trying to get me to believe that Jesus condoned killing people, that God uses evil and that faith is believing everything some group says is true. I'm not sure which book they are reading but after reading the Bible, I know these people are not followers of Christ. So when I say I'm a Progressive Christian Democrat, it means that these are the influences that guide my life. Of course an atheist can be a Democrat and I guess a Republican can also be Progressive (though I've never come across one) but I was discussing my ideological transformation not anyone else's. These new ideals are the backbone of my beliefs and I am neither requiring anyone to agree with them or believe the same things I do. I am who I am and just because you, quite understandably, do not like Christianity, it does not mean I should renounce it or even back off my statement.

I do not believe atheism is a moral failing. It's the apostasy that is the moral failing. To twist words like...

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the land.
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.

into...

"Blessed are the rich, for theirs is the kingdom of earth.
Blessed are they who cause mourning, for they will be hailed as saints.
Blessed are the strong, for they will take the land.
Blessed are they who cause hunger and thirst for the sake of self-righteousness, for they will be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciless, for they show no mercy.
Blessed are the bitter of heart, for they will act like God.
Blessed are the warmakers, for they will be called children of God.
Blessed are they who persecute the innocent, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

...is the moral failing. Before all of this, I did not believe in God. Once I saw true evil, I knew true good must exist. Once you see true hate, you soon learn that true Love exists as well. After reading the Bible and coming to understand that the concept we understand as Love is God, the hypocrisy of the Right becomes all the more apparent and all the more abhorrent. If you believe in Love but deny the existence of God, then to me, you too are Godly. If you have no Love and go around saying that you are a Christian then you are a hypocrite. Jesus doesn't care if you run around shouting out his name from the rooftops as long as you do what is good and what is right. Believe whatever you want, call yourself whatever you like but to me God is Love and if you have Love, you know God; even if you don't believe he exists.
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morgan2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. ah yes you've made quite a wonderful conversion
from someone who knew everything and was a republican to someone who knows everything and isn't. What you believe is true and everyone else is foolish. Same attitude different point of view. Christianity is a religion built upon what some people wrote down and compiled many years after Jesus supposively lived, but whats in the bible is the truth. God is love blah blah blah. God is an idea, even if there is a god, claiming you are certain the nature of it is fairly arrogant.
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Actually, I never claimed to "know everything"...
nor have I said you were foolish. The hypocrisy of the Right is more than apparent and unless you fall into that category, I fail to see how you take such offense. Claiming to be certain of the nature of God is not arrogant, it is clearly spelled out in the Bible. The Gospels leave little ambiguity as to the nature of Christ so I do not believe that it is arrogant to restate what has been written and accepted as doctrine by billions of people throughout history.

Yes, the Bible is merely a book. To accept it as anything else is actually breaking one of the commandments; but it is also a path that, though obscured, can be followed if one chooses. As I stated previously, I had not read the book nor accepted the doctrine until after my "conversion". You can believe it if you want to or not, that is entirely your choice. But clearly, you have a problem with Christianity and anything I say will only further inflame your ire so maybe it's better that we simply agree to disagree. I meant you no disrespect and wish you well on your journey through life. Farewell.



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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
40. . K&R
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
44. Wow... Just Wow and Thank You
Your sharing this gives me more hope.
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