Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

How is it WE can see the truth behind w's lies but the suckers can't?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:03 PM
Original message
How is it WE can see the truth behind w's lies but the suckers can't?
How come we here can see beyond the neo con lies, and we can see that bush is a dangerous idiot but his devotees can't? I imagine there are more than a few who don't really buy bush's bullshit, but just claim to because they are republicans or just because they are contrarians, but millions apparently fall for his bullshit aw shucks crap hook line and sucker.

How can they not see what we see so plainly? How do you get through to such folks? Is it even possible? And how can they simply dismiss the truth once it's been exposed time and again? Some are coming around, I know a few personally who are sorry they voted for him twice. But vast herds of crapivores roam the land, and they are easily corralled and stampeded and easily led to the slaughter houses.

What makes us unlike them? Are there some people who are not necessarily smarter, but who can simply see through bullshit better than others?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Here's one explanation:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nightjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. LOL!
Beautiful!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. rofl
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's not that
I believe it has to do with the master plan of polarizing everyone to one side or the other.
After all the "get over it" crap...some people are just too proud to say "hey dude...you were right, I was wrong, let's have a beer together and impeach this bastard".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. You have the operative word in your question
"suckers"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. The only way I can answer that is tosay, when BC was constantly
being attacked for everything under the sun, and it turned out heDID have sex relations with Monica, I made excuses for him. I said I've worked with a lot of wealthy exeuctives in my lifetime, and I only know of ONE who I don't think played around. It didn't affect BC's ability to do his job for the Country, so I don't care.

I think that's what the PUBS are doing now. They're not happy with Shrub'sactions or lact of them, but they support him because likeSOME of what they ATHINK he stands for The operative word is THINK! Guve enough time, even they will recognize he's just a fakeinside & out!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. Because you have people like this!
I wrote him back and thanked him for solving the mystery of who that stubborn third of America was. He included his e mail with the letter (it is optional) so I figure he welcomes responses.
snip>

Silent majority still here

President Reagan had the silent majority, and we are still here. I am tired of hearing how bad the president is doing in the ratings and how much people around the world hate America. President Bush is doing what is right, and he has more support than the polls indicate.

He did what is right on Iraq. He did what is right on abortion. He did what is right on stem cell research. He did what is right on gay marriage.

He did what is right on Israel. He did what is right on the economy. He did what is right on many things, but the liberal press tells us that he is wrong. My mother always taught me to do what is right.

STEVEN PARKS

stevenparksx@yahoo.com

http://www.statesman.com/opinion/content/editorial/stories/08/24Letters_edit.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. He's also not tired of soldiers dying - What a creep
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Two possibilities.
1. They do see the truth behind the lies, but something deep within themselves prevents them from admitting it. Somehow they are more secure living with a lie than they are dealing with reality. Perhaps it's the gay issue for some. Many who are not sexually at peace with who they are fear the unknown, and take extreme measures to ensure they will never have to confront it. Others ignore the truth because they get some sick pleasure from the pain of others. And why not? They're tormented inside themselves, so it's comforting to them to know that others feel the same pain.

2. They are as big an idiot as Bush is. They have small minds, they are self-centered, and not intelligent enough to consider that what they see and what they hear just don't add up. They see others like themselves, and want to fit in so badly they don't dare make waves. Just keep agreeing, keep smiling, and keep sending in those checks, thank you very much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. Have you read John Dean's new book?
It's called Conservatives Without Conscience, and he delves into sociological research to show what kind of people these are. Authoritarian followers really will accept anything from a leader they see as strong. Authoritarian leaders really will act without conscience to do things that will benefit themselves. There is a series of posts at Orcinus that delves into the phenomenon. Here are some of the followers' traits:

1. Submission to authority. "These people accept almost without question the statements and actions of established authorities, and comply with such instructions without further ado" writes Dean. " are intolerant of criticism of their authorities, because they believe the authority is unassailably correct. Rather than feeling vulnerable in the presence of powerful authorities, they feel safer. For example, they are not troubled by government surveillance of citizens because they think only wrongdoers need to be concerned by such intrusions. Still, their submission to authority is not blind or automatic; believe there are proper and improper authorities…and their decision to submit is shaped by whether a particular authority is compatible with their views."

2. Aggressive support of authority. Right-wing followers do not hesitate to inflict physical, psychological, financial, social, or other forms of harm on those they see as threatening the legitimacy of their belief system and their chosen authority figure. This includes anyone they see as being too different from their norm (like gays or racial minorities). It's also what drives their extremely punitive attitude toward discipline and justice. Notes Dean: "Authoritarian aggression is fueled by fear and encouraged by a remarkable self-righteousness, which frees aggressive impulses."

3. Conventionality. Right-wing authoritarian followers prefer to see the world in stark black-and-white. They conform closely with the rules defined for them by their authorities, and do not stray far from their own communities. This extreme, unquestioning conformity makes them insular, fearful, hostile to new information, uncritical of received wisdom, and able to accept vast contradictions without perceiving the inherent hypocrisy.

Conformity also feeds their sense of themselves as more moral and righteous than others -- a perception that's usually buttressed by the use of magical absolution techniques that they use to "evaporate guilt," in Dean's words. Because they confessed, or are saved, or were just following orders, they can commit heinous crimes and still retain a serene conscience and sense that they are "righteous people." On the other hand, when it comes to outsiders, there is no absolution. Their memory for even minor transgressions is nothing short of elephantine (as Bill Clinton knows all too well).

Dean lists other traits of right-wing authoritarian followers, most of which flow directly from the three core traits above:

Both men and women
Highly religious
Moderate to little education
Trust untrustworthy authorities
Prejudiced (particularly against homosexuals, women, and followers of religions other than their own)
Mean-spirited
Narrow-minded
Intolerant
Bullying
Zealous
Dogmatic
Uncritical toward chosen authority
Hypocritical
Inconsistent and contradictory
Prone to panic easily
Highly self-righteous
Moralistic
Strict disciplinarian
Severely punitive
Demands loyalty and returns it
Little self-awareness
Usually politically conservative/Republican



http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/cracks-in-wall-part-i-defining.html
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/cracks-in-wall-part-ii-listening-to.html
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2006/08/cracks-in-wall-part-iii-escape-ladders.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Atommomm you hit the nail on the head with your post.
Dean has figured them out. Anytime you want to know the mind of a b*sh koolaid drinker, just read the book.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pooja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. Some people can't believe that a president would intentionally
harm them. They believe that the President is there to defend the country. And what they say is right. Why would a President misleag/ misguide an American? Its like the Pope... if he said it is a sin to sneeze.. how many would try to stiffle it. Some people are natural followers. Not everyone can lead or wants to lead. So I think they are the one's behind the President. They would support him, but complain bitterly about losing their job at the plant--still not being able to tie that loss to the President.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demigoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. also a lot of people got the anti democratic propaganda from Rush and
others for so many years before bush even showed up on the scene that now they think it is just payback when we criticize bush. I always said that the Clinton impeachment was kind of like a vaccination against any other action against other president especially a republican one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. Unlike we here at DU the republican ranks are chock full of
contrarians.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. They see what they want to see.
Deep down inside, they may be perfectly aware that they've been suckered, but continuing to lie to themselves now and keep up the pretense is easier than admitting they were wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OrangeCountyDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. Read John Dean's New Book Please
It spells out EXACTLY why there will always be 1/4 of the population willing to follow ANYTHING put out by the repub party. They're what he calls "followers," and basically they'll jump off a cliff, if they believe salvation and King george's welcoming arms are at the bottom of the valley.

According to Mr. Dean, these folks will NEVER, EVER, EVER be able to listen to reason, no matter how convincing you explain to them, or when conventional wisdom flies completely in the face of their views.

It's why King george's approval will likely NEVER go below 30%, because he has that built in 24% base of Followers which will NEVER desert him, even if he got on Live TV and sacrificed a baby, they'd still believe he was somehow framed, etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Anakin Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. Self-Deleted.
Edited on Thu Aug-24-06 06:23 PM by Anakin Skywalker
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. A 'puker agreed with me today that the 2000 & 2004 elections were stolen.
He saw nothing wrong with that.

If they wish & hope & pray & dream to live in a dictatorship....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC