"Anyone But Bush" in national, but "Anyone But Hillary" in the primaries

[jsamuel]

That "anyone but Bush" thing won't work on me anymore. Sure, I can vote for anyone but Bush in the national election (or anyone but repub), but realize that I will vote "anyone but Hillary" in the primaries if I choose to.

I have criticized republicans for letting Bush get through their primaries. I will apply the same standards to democrats if we let someone through ours that is going to be just like Bush on foreign policy and presidential powers.

[FiveGoodMen]

1. Sign me up.

(And please don't let it be Hillary I have to vote for!!!!)

[lvx35]

2. I vote on actions and policies.

Hillary gave a little hope in some recent comments blasting Bush. In my opinion, Hillary still has time to demonstrate change before 2008, and take a hard line against Bush's policies. If she does, she will have my consideration in the primaries. If she stays on the same course, I will take the same side as you...Which I'm more naturally inclined to take; I am sick of dynasties in the Whitehouse, be it father-son or husband wife.

[jsamuel]

3. your right, we shouldn't judge absolutely yet, three years til 2008

[jackbourassa]

9. So "blasting Bush" is all you're looking for in a candidate?

Hillary is the epitome of everything that's wrong with the Washington Democrats. Her support for the war. Her connections with corporations. Her lack of leadership. And the fact that she is quite simply unelectable are THE MAJOR reasons I will never support her.

This next election is too important. We can't have another loss.

[jsamuel]

11. Fear over losing will only weaken our candidate.

That is why we shouldn't elect anyone (or not elect anyone) because we let the fear of losing overtake us. Even if that candidate is Hillary. However, Hillary's pandering has shown how much fear she has of losing, which is another reason I am not supporting her right now.

[lvx35]

16. Here's what I see as the major point

One of the best critiques I heard of Kerry, after the 2004 elections actually came from Ralph Nader. He pointed out that by running such a milktoast candidate, we didn't sent out any message about how 48% of the American people feel about issues like the war in Iraq. Therefore I think that its really important to run on a strongly anti-Bush platform...Even if we lose, we will have sent out the proper message. (and we have to consider the best case win and lose, especially with these election fraud issues.)
The second thing is that I think we have to be inclusive. If we shut people out for what they have done before without taking into account the fact that people sometimes change, we will shrink as a party. Hell, look at me, I used to be a Libertarian! ;)
So yes, if Hillary is willing to change and make a strong stand against Bush, I welcome her.

[Left Below]

4. Feingold, Warner, Edwards.....

others..

PLEASE!

Ms. Clinton will be Swiftboated so easily...

70% of the swing voters will see her as a militant lesbian when the new Rove finishes with her..

Please....

[jsamuel]

6. Don't worry about so-called "swing voters"

There are two main types of voter to go after.

#1 - Those who always vote Dem no matter what.
#2 - Those who only vote when they make a point to.


Get #1 all excited about them and give #2 a reason to vote.

Pandering turns both of those voter types off.

[Left Below]

8. "swing voters" don't vote on issues - they vote

for the "best candidate" - comfort and charisma.

Senator Clinton has neither. Bill Clinton had both in droves and still no landslide.

The "undecided" middle 30% of the electorate is stupid! They need charisma!

[jsamuel]

10. I think people incorrectly interpret the quality that people vote for as

"Charisma"

but that isn't it...

The quality that encourages #1 and makes #2 want to vote is confidence in ones principles. Unfortunately, Bush had that and people didn't look hard enough to realize that his confidence was WRONG.

So the quality must NOW be backed up with sincerity and truth.

Fortunately, only Dems seem to be in a position to do the last requirement... sincerity and truth...

Hillary has shown me neither of those so far except for the occasional speech on social issues.

[SmokingJacket]

5. Eh -- there are a lot of people I'd choose Hillary over.

Lieberman, for example. Zell Miller!

Okay.. not a lot. But several!

[jsamuel]

7. I could see that... but those are a given.

I mean, there is no way Lieberman would even have a chance like Hillary does (according to the media anyway).

[LeftCoast]

12. After '04 I strongly believe the Dems better pick someone we vote FOR

I was part of the ABB crowd last time. I think we relied too heavily on people voting against Bush. I'm now convinced that more than anything we must nominate a candidate that people will vote for.

[jsamuel]

13. yeah, #1's are encouraged and #2's will have SOMETHING WORTH VOTING FOR

[Meldread]

14. Sign me up, here is what I want.

I'm against Hillary and there is nothing she can do to change that. If she wins, I won't even vote for her in the National Election. I'll stay home or vote third party if I have to. Anything she does is simply to appease people - she is just like her husband - she likes to pander. I hate people who pander to the right, and even more I hate being pandered too. You either share my values and ideals or you don't. If you don't, then I consider you amoral at best and evil at worst. Hilary and her husband are amoral, willing to sell out what's best for the United States and the world for votes and political comfort.

I want a candidate that I feel that I can trust. I want to feel inspired and hopeful when they speak, I want to be hopeful for the future. I want a candidate who is innovative and brings a fresh prospective and new ideas to the party. I want a candidate who is likeable, and has personal charisma. I want a candidate that I can be proud that I voted for, and that I am proud to say is my President and the leader of the Democratic Party. I would prefer (although this isn't totally necessary) that they be someone on the outside of Washington. I want a candidate who is politically savvy, that has progressive views and beliefs.

The sad part is, I don't know of a single democrat in any elected office who even has three of the things that I'm looking for. Hillary has none of them, she isn't charismatic, she isn't likeable, she isn't inspiring... she's like John Kerry but a woman with a bitchy type attitude, and every time I hear her speak I feel dirty - I can almost physically feel the pandering and the slime coming off of her words.

Anyway, I'm keeping my eyes open but I am not hopeful. If I had it my way I'd fire every Democrat in Congress because they've done nothing but fail the party.

[Left Below]

15. Well said. I speak to moderate voters all the time who

warn me - No Hillary!!!@@!

btw - they view Howard Dean as a nut - and with regard to issues he is a centrist...

It's all image.

IT'S ALL IMAGE!!!!

[rucky]

17. Is she even running? n/t

[OneBlueSky]

18. I'll buy "anybody but Bush," but "anybody but Hillary" is . . .

problemmatic . . . because it could include the likes of Joe Biden or even Joe Lieberman, both of whom are as bad or worse . . . not to mention a host of others . . .

"any true progressive instead of Hillary" might be more appropriate . . .