Juan Cole "diagnoses" Bush as having narcissistic personality disorder.

[BurtWorm]

Bush isn't suffering from it, though. The rest of the world is.


http://www.juancole.com/2006/08/bushs-arab-dream-palace-is-it.html

Bush's Arab Dream Palace
Is it Narcissism?

Bush said again on Monday that he would keep US troops in Iraq until 2009 and argued that for the US to withdraw would send a bad message to reformers in the region. He said he is concerned about that talk of civil war in Iraq and seemed to admit that he isn't very happy most of the time about the way things are going, but added that he doesn't expect to be joyous in wartime. He admitted again that Saddam Hussein did not "order" 9/11, but went on to again link Baathist Iraq to the threat of terrorism against the US, an unproven charge.

I am not a psychiatrist and don't play one on t.v., so treat what follows as political satire please, and nothing more.

But what strikes me about Bush's Monday appearance is how consistent it is with what I understand of the symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder. Let's look at it this way:


'1. An exaggerated sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).'



Bush is not content to be the most powerful man in the world. He thinks he is on a mission from God, and has decided that he is going to "reform" the Middle East, and turn Middle Easterners into something else. He is the Great Transformer of these other peoples' lives. The reason he has to stay in Iraq until the end of his presidency (it is all about him) is that he cannot admit that he did not succeed in being the great Transformer of the Middle East, that in fact he screwed up the Middle East royally. Because such an admission of any slightest mistake, much less a major series of failures, would fatally threaten his sense of grandiosity. Thus, he can't pull troops out of Iraq not because of practical military considerations, but because it would send the wrong signal to regional "reformers," i.e. Bush's mini-me's, the people fulfilling his sense of grandiosity.

Nobody else is in the picture here, just Bush. He doesn't ask any sacrifice from the US public for the war, as Bill Maher and others have noted. The heroics are his alone. The rest of us should go shopping (so as not to interfere with his self-image as Atlas of the Middle East.)

[G_j]

1. dead on

yep, that's the guy

[NVMojo]

8. damn dead on ...it's him alright

[Felinity]

2. If he is considering a career change .. .

psychiatry would not be out of the question.

It would be interesting to enumerate all of Bush's likely personality disorders, but who has the time?

[grasswire]

3. get in line, Juan

Many Americans have already arrived at that conclusion. Especially those who have been intimately involved with pathologic narcissists. I knew the first week I paid attention to Bush that he had NPD, because I survived a rocky marriage to a narcissist. He's NPD, and he's dangerous.

[Terre]

13. So true

Not a professional here in any sense of the word, but I guessed it when he grabbed that bullhorn at the burned out ruins of the Twin Towers. Though I wasn't think the word narcissist, it was close. I thought to myself - shit, what an creepy EGO!

[rainy]

15. how does a narcissist stop being one? I know a few and wonder

if they can adapt or overcome their illness?

[marions ghost]

22. I think its generally agreed

that NPD is difficult to overcome as it usually develops in youth.

Also since pathological Narcissists are functional in society their problems are often not recognized until it's too late and they have already left a trail of woe behind them. A lot of injured relatives and associates only wake up to the seriousness of the issues after they have been severely betrayed or abused. By then the damage may be too deep and the only solution is separation.

Narcissist defensiveness and arrogance often keeps them from admitting that anything is wrong. Of course in order to be receptive to help, you have to actually recognize that you have a problem. And since the problem is deep-rooted it may require a total personality reconstruction...let's face it, there's not much incentive for undertaking that. I think people can work on it, but they may never be free of it. More often it's worse with age.

The syndrome can be stressful to the Narcissist, especially in dealing with his misplaced feelings of anger and betrayal when the world gives him/her a speed bump or two. No matter how much they own or control, Narcissists are perpetually unfulfilled and unhappy. If they didn't cause so much pain in relationships you could almost feel sorry for them. But usually they have a lot of enemies, and actually function well with that situation, because they have little empathy and are not concerned with
rectifying any wrongs against others. They never apologize. It's always all about them.

[ProgressiveFool]

23. Only you can stop narcissism

;-)

[magellan]

4. Agreed. Bush** does it all for how it reflects on him.

Which is why he's so committed to passing the buck when it goes wrong.

[rhiannon55]

5. I know a couple of people with NPD

And Bush is just like them, arrogant, self-centered, and delusional. I completely believe that he has NPD, complicated by a low IQ--the others are smarter than he is, but then, who isn't?

Tell me again how someone like him got all that power?

Oh, right... :think:

[patrice]

9. He got all of that power because there are a whole LOT of people

just like him who belong to mutual psychological-masturbation societies they call churches.

Sorry to be so Rude, but now that we are on track for Un-Ending War fueled by Racism and signed sealed and delivered by the next terrorist strike on American soil, being nice just doesn't seem so important anymore.

[rhiannon55]

17. I agree...we've all been too nice for too long

:mad: We need to get mad and get busy throwing the bums out!

[patrice]

21. I, for one, would like to have my country, AND my church, back. n/t

[Cha]

26. With immeasurable help

from the US corporate media and the fucking 5 on the supreme court.

[moc]

6. K&R

[tularetom]

7. Nothing satirical about it

Cole's analysis is spot on and I'd go a step further. There are significant "mommy" issues compounding the narcissism. * wants to show his mommy that he is more manly than his needle dick daddy.

[kurth]

10. Narcissistic personality disorder? Too many big words

Bush is an asshole.

[Iowa]

16. Yeah, you nailed it, and I'll expand a bit on what you said...

This is based upon my years of experience in the mental health field:

--This business of categorizing people into nice neat little personality disorders is a gross oversimplification of human behavior. It doesn't really tell you much, and it runs the risk of actually minimizing the magnitude of what you're truly dealing with.

--It's a stretch to use the term "diagnosis" when referring to personality disorders. These personality categories aren't really "diagnoses" in the usual sense of the word, despite being used as such. Using the term "diagnosis" implies "illness" where there is none. This is about behavior - and the existence of a personality disorder does not excuse how one chooses to behave.

--Bush is an asshole (as you stated). Seeking a personality disorder "diagnosis" is typically a way of trying to understand why someone is a monster, but that line of thinking will almost always produce the wrong answer. The right answer is often very simple, and IMO, it applies to Bush: He is an asshole because he chooses to be one.

[tomp]

20. i don't know--that doesn't sound quite right to me.

this is only "choice" if bush is free to make a choice other than the choice he makes. it doesn't seem within his "character" to be able to do that, hence, "character" or "personality" disorder. there are just too many devils in his head telling him to do the wrong thing to have it really be a free choice. at the point where a person is not really free to make reasonable choices (not destructive to self or others) one crosses the line into mental illness, imho.

"bush on the couch" lists many potential reasons for this: absent, over-achieving father, domineering, punitive mother, e.g (and don't forget genes, the tree he fell from is kinda sickly itself). npd is pretty close to what i see, but whatever "diagnosis" one makes, bush is clearly mentally ill, and should be removed to a place of safety.

[marions ghost]

24. agreed

I don't think true pathological Narcissists are making 'choices' to be assholes so much as they are driven by their twisted inner needs and delusions of grandeur. Although people are still resistant to calling Narcissism a mental illness, from what I've seen, it destroys relationships, causes serious damage and is often an intractable problem.

I think the pResident is without a doubt seriously mentally ill.

[Iowa]

29. This type of thinking has been thoroughly discredited...

...on the front lines of the mental health field.

"...there are just too many devils in his head telling him to do the wrong thing to have it really be a free choice."

Nah, there's no evidence of auditory hallucinations here, and even if there were, the presence of hallucinations is not a symptom of npd. You are making the classic mistake of assigning the symptoms of serious mental illness indiscriminately as a way of explaining behavior you find repugnant. And that is a very slippery slope.

"at the point where a person is not really free to make reasonable choices (not destructive to self or others) one crosses the line into mental illness, imho."

That's right, but what you're saying does NOT apply to personality disorders. It applies (sometimes) to bona fide mental illnesses like schizophrenia, organicity, and some of the affective disorders - but not to personality disorders.

"...but whatever "diagnosis" one makes, bush is clearly mentally ill, and should be removed to a place of safety."

This type of reasoning is thrown around fairly frequently, but there are several problems with it:

--First, you can't just indiscriminately declare that someone is "mentally ill" and lock them up with "whatever diagnosis". The old Soviet Union used to do that to their dissenting intellectuals (the slippery slope referenced earlier).

--Second, evil behavior almost always takes place entirely outside the realm of mental illness. Sometimes people are far too quick to see "evil" and think "mental illness". Suggesting that a badly behaving person is "mentally ill" without solid evidence (and in this case there is much evidence against it) serves to stigmatize people with mental illness. There is no link between mental illness and evil.

--And finally, when you declare that someone is "mentally ill" without solid clinical evidence (and evil behavior alone is clearly NOT evidence of mental illness), you make excuses for that person. You give them an "out", or a crutch. When taking medical/social histories, I always asked about the existence of any significant disabilities. Ex-cons frequently listed their previous incarceration as a disability. What they were saying is this: "it wasn't my fault".

There are many involved in perpetrating all the wrongdoing - Bush, Cheney, Dumbsfeld, Congresspeople, SC Justices, corporate leaders, media collaborators, election crooks, and countless others. Chances are good that mentally illness plays virtually no role in any of it. Unless there is strong evidence to the contrary, they are all responsible for the choices they are making. Evil behavior almost always takes place entirely outside the realm of mental illness.

[marions ghost]

31. well you can call it

mentally unbalanced or whatever nicer term you like...but the Chimp in Chief and his entourage just ain't right in the head.

I don't believe in the existence of "evil." I see what you term evil behavior as being the direct result of mental aberration and maladaptation. Depending on the severity it can range from personality disorder to mental illness, sociopathy. Of course aberrants must still be required to 'take reponsibility' for themselves, but what does that really mean? They don't tend to change unless they can be mentally straightened out. That takes work on their part too, so nobody's letting them off the hook.

You can't look at this administration and see anything but insanity everywhere IMO. But that is scary for a lot of people, so they'd just rather label it something as nebulous as "evil."

There's no point in debating this. Two vastly different perspectives.

[Iowa]

33. Not a debate...

It's about the correct use of psych terms, stigmatizing mental illness, and providing medical excuses for bad behavior.

"I don't believe in the existence of "evil." I see what you term evil behavior as being the direct result of mental aberration"

That line of thinking is out of step with most who work on the front lines in the mental health field - people who deal with this stuff every day. There are a few on the fringe who buy into that, but they typically have limited experience and exposure to a narrow range of patients. Given enough time and experience they usually change their tune.

People do very bad things for many reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with mental illness. You can bank on that.

[marions ghost]

37. I ask you--is this NOT illness?

Narcissists and Depression
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq82.html

Many scholars consider pathological narcissism to be a form of depressive illness. This is the position of the authoritative magazine "Psychology Today". The life of the typical narcissist is, indeed, punctuated with recurrent bouts of dysphoria (ubiquitous sadness and hopelessness), anhedonia (loss of the ability to feel pleasure), and clinical forms of depression (cyclothymic, dysthymic, or other). This picture is further obfuscated by the frequent presence of mood disorders, such as Bipolar I (co-morbidity). While the distinction between reactive (exogenous) and endogenous depression is obsolete, it is still useful in the context of narcissism. Narcissists react with depression not only to life crises but to fluctuations in Narcissistic Supply. The narcissist's personality is disorganised and precariously balanced. He regulates his sense of self-worth by consuming Narcissistic Supply from others. Any threat to the uninterrupted flow of said supply compromises his psychological integrity and his ability to function. It is perceived by the narcissist as life threatening.

I. Loss Induced Dysphoria
This is the narcissist's depressive reaction to the loss of one or more Sources of Narcissistic Supply – or to the disintegration of a Pathological Narcissistic Space (PN Space, his stalking or hunting grounds, the social unit whose members lavish him with attention).

II. Deficiency Induced Dysphoria
Deep and acute depression which follows the aforementioned losses of Supply Sources or a PN Space. Having mourned these losses, the narcissist now grieves their inevitable outcome – the absence or deficiency of Narcissistic Supply. Paradoxically, this dysphoria energises the narcissist and moves him to find new Sources of Supply to replenish his dilapidated stock (thus initiating a Narcissistic Cycle).

III. Self-Worth Dysregulation Dysphoria
The narcissist reacts with depression to criticism or disagreement, especially from a trusted and long-term Source of Narcissistic Supply. He fears the imminent loss of the source and the damage to his own, fragile, mental balance. The narcissist also resents his vulnerability and his extreme dependence on feedback from others. This type of depressive reaction is, therefore, a mutation of self-directed aggression.

IV. Grandiosity Gap Dysphoria
The narcissist's firmly, though counterfactually, perceives himself as omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, brilliant, accomplished, irresistible, immune, and invincible. Any data to the contrary is usually filtered, altered, or discarded altogether. Still, sometimes reality intrudes and creates a Grandiosity Gap. The narcissist is forced to face his mortality, limitations, ignorance, and relative inferiority. He sulks and sinks into an incapacitating but short-lived dysphoria.

V. Self-Punishing Dysphoria
Deep inside, the narcissist hates himself and doubts his own worth. He deplores his desperate addiction to Narcissistic Supply. He judges his actions and intentions harshly and sadistically. He may be unaware of these dynamics – but they are at the heart of the narcissistic disorder and the reason the narcissist had to resort to narcissism as a defence mechanism in the first place.
This inexhaustible well of ill will, self-chastisement, self-doubt, and self-directed aggression yields numerous self-defeating and self-destructive behaviours – from reckless driving and substance abuse to suicidal ideation and constant depression. It is the narcissist's ability to confabulate that saves him from himself. His grandiose fantasies remove him from reality and prevent recurrent narcissistic injuries. Many narcissists end up delusional, schizoid, or paranoid. To avoid agonising and gnawing depression, they give up on life itself.
(more at link)

[Iowa]

42. No, it's not an "illness" in the usual sense of the word...

--People with npd and apd are responsible for their actions. They can choose to behave - or not.

--The site you reference is put up by a guy who is not a mental health professional and who has an employment history in business. The quotes of his that you reference are misleading in that they provide only partial information (some correct and some not).

--This issue requires a grasp of the big picture that I cannot reproduce here. Reading a few psychology books and internet articles just won't produce a realistic picture. Nevertheless, many people without any preconceived notions or education will intuitively "get" this much: they will be able to distinguish between those who misbehave because it suits them, and those who do so because they're insane. The difference is a very important one, and it is recognized by both the psych profession and the courts.

[marions ghost]

43. you

don't address the points. Do they not describe the issues of Narcissism accurately? What is not accurate in your opinion? If the pResident has only half these problems, he's a walking disaster.

This big distinction you're trying to make is often blurred. I'm arguing that he SHOULD be held accountable, even though I believe also that he is not what we normally think of as 'sane.' Isn't that consistent with your ideas?

I think we're splitting hairs, because of the resistance to seeing an extreme personality disorder as seriously deranged.

[Iowa]

47. No, it's not really hair-splitting, and here is one reason why:

I think you are blurring the line between true insanity and bad deeds perpetrated for other reasons. And one reason this matters is because I DON'T believe that people who are insane should be held legally accountable for actions taken when in the grip of psychosis. But I DO believe that those who are in control of their faculties (and this includes people with personality disorders absent axis one diagnoses) and who prey on others to accomplish their agendas should be held legally accountable for their actions (and I see Bush as fitting better within the latter group).

So I object to positions that blur the line between true insanity and bad acts perpetrated for other reasons.

This is a very important distinction that has significant ramifications for the criminal justice system, the mental health system, people who get caught up in either system, and society as a whole. Both systems (for the most part) "get" the dynamics involved, and most who work in either system would agree, by and large, with what I'm saying.

It's really too much to cover in a forum like this. It's like a large web with one strand affecting another - just way too much to get into here - and some of it you just have to see for yourself. I have enjoyed the conversation though.

[marions ghost]

49. you dis the points I posted

about Narcissism and then won't say what you find wrong with them. Not asking for a dissertation--one example is enough. But you don't bother. So...OK.

I agree that people who are legally insane should not be held accountable for actions when they are in the grip of psychosis.

I agree that those in control of their faculties should be held accountable for their actions, generally speaking.

So there's no issue with the basic distinction. We only differ in that I feel that those with extreme NPD exhibit behaviors consistent with definitions of illness, which needs to be recognized (never mind what is offered by way of therapy). The problem has been that these extremely exploitative and abusive people have been too easily excused and not asked to take any responsibility whatsoever. They are not only tolerated, but often promoted, in our society. We're talking "extreme" here--megalomaniacs like Bush & Co, people who go around leaving human wreckage in their wake, true serial abusers--people who have crossed the line from bothersome to dangerous. They are abnormal, deranged, seriously twisted, sick criminals. They may not be killers themselves, but they often allow for killing when convenient, and will participate in coverups of serious crimes. Cold-blooded as any psychopath.

For survivors of abuse, it helps to identify such perpetrators as messed up...certainly NOT on the scale of normal. Because that is the lie that survivors have been suckered into by relationship with them...that they are normal...that the "evil" you speak of is normal. I think it is important for us--survivors of the Bush regime--to understand that a line has been crossed. Our system currently has no effective way of dealing with these political abusers, who can avoid every attempt at bringing them to "justice." We are seeing the consequences to society of letting them get so far, and it's too high a price for the rest of us to pay. We the American people are now victims, pawns in a very ruthless game-- and it is taking a massive toll in stress and illness in the victims. How do you deal with this from a social psychology perspective?--never mind whether the perps get jailed, which wouldn't begin to address the issues or deter this type of Narcissist abuser (who never identifies with those who get caught, it's just their 'bad luck.'). Much too little too late.

So anyway, no need to reply. You don't seem to want to discuss the bigger picture, choosing to define the issues very narrowly. Cheers.

[tomp]

32. i didn't mean literal hallucinations.

i'm not quite sure what you mean by the front lines of the mental health field, but where i work we still consider personality disorders to be diagnosable and treat them as illnesses (illnesses that are difficult to do anything about, but ilnesses just the same). could you give some source for your definition of "bona fide" mental illness (personality disorders are still in the dsm)(and yes i know about the debate about problems with the dsm) and personality disorders not being among them? frankly, i'd be quite interested to hear about it.

as for the distinction between mental illness and evil as an explanation for behavior, well,...sometimes there's not that much difference. i'm personaly waitng for the day when failure to work happily for the benefit of mankind is in the dsm.

as for lack of "solid clinical evidence" for bush, i refer you to " bush on the couch", "fortunate son", "the bush dyslexicon" and the new york times. if the world doesn't need to be protected form bush, it doesn't need to be protected from anyone.

[Iowa]

35. What I'm basically saying is this:

A personality disorder does not excuse bad/evil/illegal behavior - schizophrenia might. The former contributes to the manner in which one might be inclined to act, while the latter (in extreme situations) can actually hijack the thought processes and drive one to do things he/she wouldn't consider doing otherwise. There's a big difference. Example: I knew a man who was driven by delusions to manually (with his bare hands) tear his scrotum apart, rip out his testicle, and present it to the night nurse.

Personality disorders, in practice, aren't typically considered to be "illnesses" in the usual sense of the word. They are primarily descriptive groupings of ingrained patterns of behavior. An actively psychotic patient may not be able to control what he does. A person with npd or antisocial personality disorder can choose to behave when it suits his purposes. Big difference.

Regarding your comment: "...but where i work we still consider personality disorders to be diagnosable and treat them as illnesses (illnesses that are difficult to do anything about, but ilnesses just the same)."

Yes, they are diagnosable, but homosexuality was also considered to be an illness per the DSM not all that long ago. Being in the DSM doesn't mean much - especially the section on personality disorders - a section that has been subjected to prolonged and serious criticism.

"i'm personaly waitng for the day when failure to work happily for the benefit of mankind is in the dsm."

Be careful what you wish for. If "failure to work happily for the benefit of mankind" can be classified as a mental illness, it's only a short hop to "failure to embrace military service for the benefit of the fatherland".

"if the world doesn't need to be protected form bush, it doesn't need to be protected from anyone."

But not protection from his mental illness - protection from his crimes. That's what jails are for.

[tomp]

38. you're so literal!

i have no problem putting bush in jail (along with his entire administration). i think that would be an excellent place to start to protect the world from their "behavior". but because it is theoretically possible for a person with "personality disorder" to moderate their behavior to some extent "when it suits his purpose" doesn't mean that his understanding of "reality" is the same as yours or mine. goal-directed behavior does not necessarily rule out mental illness. i think bush, among others, lives in a grandiose fantasy land where he can do no wrong (sort of the extension of nixon's, "if the president does it, it's legal" position). how he got there is debatable, as is how to classify it diagnostically, but his mental state, not just his "behavior", is aberrant.

i think bush is in the same general category as your scrotum-ripper. bush is ripping out the heart and soul of the world (not to mention having the world "by the balls"), and is inflicting real damage to others. he's doing it to others instead of himself simply because that's the nature of his illness. it seems strange to have to argue against the idea that bush is in "control" when he is so clearly "out of control". he is, in other words, imho, as much a homocidal maniac as any other (for all intents and purposes).

as for this slippery slope you keep referring to, of course i don't mean to literally put "failure to help" in the dsm, but if the difference between helping and hurting hummankind is so iffy, we're really in trouble. and now that i mention it, we're really in trouble.

p.s.: i'd still like to see some sources for the thorough discrediting of my views you spoke of.

[marions ghost]

39. well said. I agree.

--put Bushco in jail and then treat their mental illness at leisure. The damage to society has BEEN done. This isn't about prevention right now (except for the next presidential nutjob). We just can't afford these kinds of twisted 'administrators' at the helm...no matter how many ways you want to mince words about the exact nature of their mental condition.

So what is a homicidal megalomaniac like Bush other than 'sick?' Just a mere behavioral problem?
(See my post #37--Is this NOT illness?)

[tomp]

45. thanks. saw post #37 and it's quite enlightening.

as a general point i would add that we have to treat the world. i believe in social pathology. the world has gone all to hell (perhaps it always was but right now we're seeing a culmination of evil/mental illness that threatens the very existence of humanity and what's causing it/allowing it is about what's going on in people's minds/souls and in the mind/soul of groups, nations, the planet.

it's going to require vast re-education (sorry if that sounds too stalinist/maoist for some). a good starting point is to point out the symptoms of the illness. bush, his henchpeople, and society at large are sick as hell and we'd better be able to say so if we want to get anywhere.

[marions ghost]

51. you & I are

on the same wave. "we have to treat the world" -- absolutely, we have to see Bushco as a product of the culture and recognize the symptoms of widespread pathology. I could not agree more.

(See post #49 above for more on that ).

[Iowa]

46. OK, let's walk through it...

First, it's pretty clear that you're speaking from the heart: ("...bush is ripping out the heart and soul of the world..."). And I'm speaking as a detached professional - so that probably accounts for some of the differences here. But let's look at this professionally and dispassionately, because that's what one must do when diagnosing a particular patient. How we might "feel" about the actions of the patient is a whole other discussion.

Look... all this talk about the CIC's diagnosis is pure speculation. But if you examine the matter impartially, the evidence points to the likelihood that he isn't psychotic, and he probably doesn't even have a personality disorder. A diagnosis of a personality disorder requires a modus operandi that deviates markedly from the expectation of the individual's culture, plus there are typically severe occupational and interpersonal problems.

So, what do we have here?

--We have a guy who is being diagnosed by pop psych enthusiasts based upon his occupation (because that's all they have to draw upon).
--Our patient is in the most public job in the world - everyone is watching and examining his every move.
--From 2000-2004 he served four years as POTUS - in many respects, the top job in the world.
--After serving four years as POTUS, 62 million citizens decided to rehire him - knowing full well what they were getting... (minus the stolen votes, but he received many millions of votes nevertheless)
--His supporters just happen to comprise a good portion of the entire culture - and they weren't hiring him to flip burgers - they were placing the well being of the planet in his hands.

So it would be a real stretch to document the presence of a personality makeup that deviates markedly from the expectations of this individual's culture. And that, alone, pretty much nixes the personality disorder diagnosis. Add to that the fact that this guy had the wherewithal to capture (whether by theft or not) the top job in the country (twice), he has held on to the job, married to the same woman for almost 30 years, and he STILL has the approval of roughly 40% of the populace. It would be a real stretch to make a personality disorder diagnosis here. Traits, certainly, but full blown personality disorder? Highly unlikely.

So where does that leave us? You would probably be pretty safe to rule out mental illness as the cause of all of his misdeeds. Where you go from there is really outside the realm of the mental health profession, and most clinicians would not speculate or comment further, depending upon the situation and where the report was going.

Bottom line: Bush makes choices - as do we all. Most of the evil perpetrated in the world has absolutely nothing to do with mental illness. Much of it is driven by greed (and please don't tell me that you think greed is a mental illness).

So... don't make excuses for this guy! There is a term for that - "enabling" - and it almost always makes the situation worse.

ACCOUNTABILITY - not excuses.

[marions ghost]

50. Oh OK

now I see where you're coming from. Another apologist for Bushco. So now, according to you--he's not only not 'sick'...why, he doesn't even have a personality disorder! He's fine, within the norm--just another serial abuser in charge of a country's fate. So reassuring(?!)

One thing I do agree with--the culture has produced Il Chimp & his consorts, and we as a society must ultimately "take responsibility" for electing him (if you believe in fair elections, which most of the country doesn't anymore, let's just say 'installing him'). That a large part of the public "knew what they were getting" in 2004 is just not true, but his supporters do need to accept their complicity at this point. Like most Narcissists Bush is gifted at the art of deception. And the megalomedia sold a carefully crafted pack of lies to willing and fearful consumers, many who now have a serious case of 'buyer's remorse.' I do excuse SOME of the voters--not all, but some, for the biggest mistake of their voting lives. They wanted so much to trust...but they got severely burned.

You continue to MISunderstand where I am on "accountability." Holding Bush & Co accountable in our rather pathetic justice system doesn't begin to address the issues of how our Leaders become Abusers.

But your motives are clear--you seek to absolve Bush by the thinnest of arguments like --he "has held onto the top job in the country...married to the same woman etc (rofl)" and now he's not even disordered whatsoever. You've given him a clean bill of mental health. Just another Hitlerian type at the helm. OH Pul-eeze. It doesn't take 3 degrees in psychology to see this man is badly messed up...far beyond your average asshole.

[tomp]

52. bush within the norm?

only if you admit that society is abnormal.

pop psych enthusiasts? thanks, big daddy.

--"First, it's pretty clear that you're speaking from the heart: ("...bush is ripping out the heart and soul of the world..."). And I'm speaking as a detached professional..." i always try my best to speak from the heart, but in this case what you were reading is called a "metaphor".

your cold clinicalism does not impress me. if your heart is not in your work, you're in the wrong business.

just because a narcisist-ic, sociopath-ic person with billions of dollars of support behind him, with the courts and media working for him can manage to fool any number of millions of people does NOT exclude him, or them, from being considered mentally ill (IN THE BROAD SENSE OF THE TERM!). that very possibility seems almost inescapably the nature of our era, the denial of which is as much a part of the problem as the original problem.

my pop psych recommendation is that you go get yourself attached.

[Terre]

11. Clarification?

Bush isn't suffering from it, though. The rest of the world is.

The rest of the world is suffering from narcissism, or do you mean the rest of the world is suffering because of his narcissism?

I'm guessing you mean the latter.  :)

Juan Cole, despite the disclaimer of "political satire", is RIGHT ON!

[BurtWorm]

14. Touche!

That is what I meant.

:hi:

[Crankie Avalon]

12. No doubt about it, Bush is one sick puppy...

...and on top of the narcissistic personality disorder, he has his deliberately unresolved alcoholism to warp him even further.

[democrank]

18. Bush`s "power" will soon be

a distant memory. Let`s see how well he does when he`s bike riding back at the pig farm without any Army tanks or nuclear suitcases. When historians size him up, he`ll be nothing more than a sickening embarrassment in the miserable failure column.

[neilepi]

19. Scary but true

An excellent post by one of the most authoritative sources about the situation in Iraq and the middle east - well worth reading the whole post if you haven't already done so.

Now, given that there is more than a grain of truth in it, is there a mechanism for Sentate or Congress to declare Bush unfit on mental health grounds?

Even if there is it is not necessarily a good option for America if it elevates Cheney to the presidency (ponder it...). Impeachment has to be the better option for the country.

Neil

http://www.cafepress.com/heavenlybody

http://www.squidoo.com/AmericaDeservesBetter

[Cha]

25. It's amazing to me how bush

is going right over his handlers' heads with this or do they approve of the near satanic narcissism?

They know they don't want out of Irag because of the oil reserves so they wind him and say "go"?

bush saying he's not getting out of Iraq while he's president(sic) is saying that he's willing to send our soldiers to the killing fields without remorse.

[marions ghost]

28. Because the rest of them

are just as bad. The country has been hijacked by a band of pathological Narcissists. That's a scary thought and a lot of people don't want to see it. But they're coming around to it...

[theanarch]

27. as Gore Vidal recently observed, re: Junior...

..."I really believe there's something wrong with that man."

[ginnyinWI]

30. allow me to copy here one of the better comments

on Juan Cole's blog:

Yes, you are not a mental health professional but I am a clinical psychologist with about 30 years experience and, although I've never given much thought to Bush's diagnosis, you have done an admirable job. I've always thought that his need to appear "tough", with great "resolve", to never be seen as "backing down", his snearing attitude toward intellectuality at Yale when he went there, his competition with his father, that all these things and more represent an internally relatively insecure person to whom the APPEARANCE of being big, tough, macho, swaggering, etc. are evidence that "the gentleman doth protest too much"; that inside he feels like a little guy with narcissistic wounds who has to blow himself up to be a BIG guy. Since I'm working on a book about why pseudo-conservative "tough" foreign policy really is mostly bluster and in reality is weak, perhaps I'll be able to use this, thanks Juan

[barb162]

34. More like egomania, silver-spoon-in-mouth disorders

[A-Schwarzenegger]

36. I'd throw sadistic in there, too.

[bdamomma]

40. I have saved this article

for those who want to know what kind of mental case we have sitting in the WH.

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/interviews/2006/3314justin_frank.html

[marions ghost]

41. Frank says

"...I don't see any hope to change him. I think the only way to deal with him, is to isolate him, and neutralize his behavior, which would mean blocking everything he proposed, and refusing to go along with it: Sanctioning him, quarantining him, censuring him—and impeaching him. He needs to be removed from office. He's a very destructive man, who is not in touch with his destructiveness."

Strong words. :scared:

[jennygirl]

44. Don't Forget to Add Werneke's-Korsakoff's Disorder

As a psychologist I have also noticed that Bush appears to suffer from a psychoneurological disorder called Werneke-Korsakoff's in which a paerson has damaged their brain through prolonged and heavy alcohol and drug abuse over many years. This explains his memory lapses, lack of empathy, inability to string a cohoherent sentence or answer a spontanteous one without being rehearsed, resistance to change belief system ("stay-the-course"), and invent lies when put in an awkward position.

[opihimoimoi]

48. I suspect Meth abuse...his signs kinda points in this direction....