Official Conyers Forum - NSA Dom. Spying Thread 3

[Viva_La_Revolution]

Official Conyers Forum Thread 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x192174

Official Conyers Forum - NSA Dom. Spying Thread 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x192888


Thanks to Swampy for the great art!

[Coexist]

1. "all of the debate is meaningless... because we can do what we want"

"if you want to unauthorize it, you lack the Constituional authority"

On this Administration's argument on why its legal.

[berner59]

9. This is SOOOO important!!

And of course the great Conyers is the man behind it!! Why can't this guy run for Senator??

When are Specter hearings??? I truly think that little by little, some Repubs are going to have to jump off the Bush band wagon when they realize what the hell is going on here and their political future is in jeopordy...what them flee one by one...

I love how all the experts here all agree that there is no leg to stand on no matter how hard they try...

[FreedomAngel82]

17. Conyers does the best hearings

[hootinholler]

108. By then it will be too late...

Alito will render Congress moot.

-Hoot

[mom cat]

52. STOP ALITO from being the one who interprets the constitution.

Connect the dots. This is going to end up in the Suprepe Court. We must block Alito:

CALL ALL YOUR SENATORS LOCAL DISTRICT OFFICES NOW TO OPPOSE ALITO

We have gotten many emails from our participants, asking "what more can we do?" Some have reported senators arbitrarily turning off their answering machines at night, or long waits on hold. Are they trying to hide from the thousands and thousands of their constituents who are raising their voices to demand that they filibuster the evasive Alito? Even if you have already sent your personal message by email or made some phone calls, we have added a FABULOUS extra function to the main action page where you can instantly lookup all your senators local district offices phone and fax numbers with just one click.

http://www.nocrony.com

SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT FILIBUSTER FRIDAY

If the other side can have a so-called "Justice Sunday", we can have our own "Filibuster Friday", and that day is tomorrow. In just the last 24 hours we have seen a major shift in momentum. Today, Senator Leahy came out with a very strong statement that he recognizes the immense threat to our freedom and democracy in allowing a dangerous and unpopular president to install a fifth and controlling vote to hold that our Constitution actually intended to create an executive dictatorship. Tomorrow we need to show our support for those senators who are starting to stand up now by hitting every phone they've got right down to the district level with our phone calls and faxes. Get all your numbers with one easy click at

http://www.nocrony.com

Those you who like to call in to progressive radio programs, we have all their call in numbers too at the site above in the right column. Call them and ask them to talk up Filibuster Friday all day and night long! Let's start early and snowball the thing all day long. Ask them to give out the easy to say and remember URL above as much as possible. Senators have said they are "undecided" on a filibuster. But we the American people HAVE decided and all our senators have to do it get it.

Some senators who are too still too cowardly to demand a filibuster are saying they will make Alito an issue in the 2006 election. It'll be an issue alright, in their OWN primaries! Any officeholder who will not stand up for this one must never hold public office in any capacity ever again. And the difference is whether you will stand up YOURSELF right now and make those calls to their local district offices. Make calls to the toll-free numbers 888-355-3588, 888-818-6641 and 800-426-8073 if you can get through there too.

It is not enough to vote "No." They must vote "Hell, NO!" It's called a filibuster. Filibuster Friday.

Please take action NOW, so we can win all victories that are supposed to be ours, and forward this message to everyone else you know.

If you would like to get alerts like these, you can do so at http://www.usalone.com/in.htm

Or if you want to cease receiving our messages, just use the function at http://www.usalone.com/out.htm

[helderheid]

2. He spied before authorization to go to war was granted - did they bring up

the timeline at all?

[Coexist]

3. Not that I heard.

But there are lapses in attention as I try to type.

[helderheid]

4. I hear ya. I was gone for awhile picking up my son so I missed a chunk

[Skidmore]

7. Let's cut back to basics here.

ALL govt in this nation derives authority from the consent of the governed. If the people overwhelmingly do not give consent, they, and we, will deal with the fallout. I, for one, do not give consent.

[glitch]

66. Indeed. nt

[realFedUp]

5. brings up war of 1812...

oy.

Bush argument "anemic"

[Coexist]

6. Fein going back to 1812 for precedent

"if thats their strongest argument, its anemic".

[Viva_La_Revolution]

8. Fein - "The administrations strongest argument is anemic."

[goclark]

12. I've missed some of this ~ can we impeach him

or not?

It seems that I hear that there is NOT enough reason to impeach --please tell me I'm not hearing correctly.

Man taking about the "red face test."

[Viva_La_Revolution]

22. You have mis-heard! At least Turley (so far) has said

we have the right to impeach for these crimes. :)

[EST]

37. Not a right--a duty.

And the house and the senate have a duty under the constitution to hold hearingd, including joint hearings on the wiretaps, FIISA and impeachment. This pees has declared war on the law and the congress. He qualifies for immed impeach!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

103. I stand corrected - Duty is to IMPEACH!!

thanks EST!

[EST]

107. Sing it LOUD!

Sing it STRONG!
If it weren't so serious, it would be funny; at least it is exciting.

[goclark]

106. ILove it ~ let's get the party started! nt

[goclark]

111. Let's Roll! nt

[grytpype]

23. And Fein is a total Federalist Society guy.

Was in Reagan's DoJ. This is the first time I've ever agreed with anything he's said.

[realFedUp]

10. "Bush will have to read away the 4th amendment..."

Well, confirming Alito will go a long way to
doing that for this administration.

[realFedUp]

11. this section of these transcripts will be important to read again....

the legal arguments.

[Coexist]

13. "on its face that one can't be in the running because it is absurd"

LOL! Tell us how you feel.

They are punching big holes in Gonzalez's tome released yesterday. And it only took them a day.

[boobooday]

14. Gee, BushCo pursuing a policy

And then looking for a post-hoc rationale?

What a shock.

This is only their fundamental strategy of governing.

[flyarm]

15. force resolution excuse is absurd turley said!

doesn't pass the red face rule!!

[flyarm]

20. turley basically said all they could say is fisa is unconstitutional..

period..the best excuse the admin could use..but turley said he would hate to make that argument in a court of law

[flyarm]

how could any american..even freepers argue what has been said today??

it would be ludicrious!!..this is so awesome..

we don't know..thats the bottom line..we don't know who the hell these mother fuckers tapped , watched , intercepted converstations...we do not know..because * has made himself above all our laws and our constitution!]

thank you congressman Conyers and all who testified today..and the Congress people who felt this was important enough to be there!

PS WHERE IS HILLARY????????????????????????????????????HMMM

FLY

[Sydnie]

42. this is a House hearing not a Senate hearing

why would Hillary be there? I don't see any other Senators there either.

[Coexist]

55. their argument would remain the same:

we are in a time of war, there are reds under the beds, if you are not guilty-then you have nothing to worry about, Bush is closer to God than you.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

16. Wow. this is just breathtaking

I hope we aren't the only ones listening to this.

[goclark]

18. I'm trying but I want to hear the word IMPEACH NOW!

[boobooday]

19. You can be it won't be on CNN later

At least not the parts about an impeachable offense.

[realFedUp]

21. Mayor Bogaard wants something put in the record...

hmmmm, wonder what that is?

[Coexist]

24. 'it is incumbent on Congress to continue this hearing"

They (the Congress critters) all seem a little hesitant about taking the next step.

If someone stands up - I bet they could get a bandwagon going. Who's not up for re-election this year?

[realFedUp]

27. let's have them everyday.....book the room. Subpoena the Prez.

[Coexist]

41. it was noted that the Admin knows they argument won't hold up

in a court of law, because they never expect it to get there.

[realFedUp]

48. yeah, our "Justice" system seems to be like the mob's counsel.

[seafan]

25. Turley: What the admin is doing is putting forth a series of arguments.

The admin claims that the IWR meant that * had the automatic authority to conduct these intelligence wiretaps. This is to be dismissed.

Their second claim is that FISA is "unconstitutional" in that "you can't restrict me" from doing what I want because of my "inherent authority."



"I would hate to make either of these arguments in a court of law". ..Turley

[grasswire]

26. What has happened to Bruce Fein?

He's a founding honcho of the Federalist Society, one of their most important members. What the hell got into him?

[Coexist]

28. He came in during Watergate

and fully understands ramifications like a lot of us can't.

[realFedUp]

30. maybe he still has respect for the law....nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. He has seen what this administration intends to do.

TURN THE CONSTITUTION into ash. He fears these people and what they have done and are going to do....if left unchecked.

[Sydnie]

39. Perhaps he realizes that they will not always have the power

and they don't want anyone else acting this way when they have power?

[helderheid]

29. "It would be funny if it wasn't so serious"

[Viva_La_Revolution]

31. Heads Up! CSPAN will be having a live discussion after this hearing!

Call-ins?

[flyarm]

40. DOES ANYONE HAVE THE PHONE NUMBERS SO WE CAN FLOOD THE PHONES??

[Viva_La_Revolution]

50. They change the #'s all the time...

I will post them as soon as they tell us which ones.

:)

git yer dialing fingers ready, and your comments!

[helderheid]

32. "This is a slam dunk case"

[mod mom]

38. Turley called it a "text book case"

[realFedUp]

34. Bush is ignoring the law....

and that is the crux of the whole argument imo.

[seafan]

35. Rep Van Hollen (Md): Fourth amendment covers 2 people on tourist

visas in the US who are calling each other on the phone, but FISA's standards in this example are more lax.

[Gregorian]

36. This administration is WASTING all of our productivity.

Look at these hearings. This administration is taking up our time. We are chasing these asses all over, trying to pin them down. WHAT A WASTE OF OUR TIME!

The harder these people evade us, the harder they will fall.

[mod mom]

45. I disagee. We are all becoming better citizens through better

understanding of our laws and constitutuion.

[FreedomAngel82]

58. Hear hear

We know the rights we have and deserve if someone else tries to take them away from us such as Bush and his "Patriot Act."

[Gregorian]

61. That's true.

In that respect, I applaud Bush.

But just think of all of the wasted time. All of the productivity that you and I and the rest of us could be accomplishing, if it weren't for this group of criminals.

I'm not sure which is more important. I have thought about what you say, a lot. Bush has awakened and united us. Maybe this is the best thing that could have happened. I'm glad we're all here and together. But all of the dead, in his wars, will never return.

[Sydnie]

64. and better understanding of our rights, with all the twists and turns

that aren't in the Bill Of Rights.

[seafan]

43. Turley: Pres puts forward the principle of Constitutional avoidance.

That argument would give the pres unlimited power in many other circumstances, of extreme nature.

[realFedUp]

44. Hersh talks about spying on Quaker meetings....

[berner59]

51. I love how the word "watergate" keeps coming up...

The comparison...keep it coming people!!! I'm in love with Conyers...so elegant and calm...yet a bulldog...

[helderheid]

53. Love him too

[Sydnie]

54. and how they keeping implying that this is worse than that n/t

[realFedUp]

56. so similar and yet worse than Watergate.

Spying on citizens is a big reason Nixon was
booted. Then lying about it was what nailed
his coffin.

[FreedomAngel82]

59. With Nixon

didn't he just spy on political opponents and not private citizen's and than the whole Watergate thing?

[Sydnie]

62. He spied on those involved in the anti-war movement too

not just those that were running for office against his positions. It was very widespread and supported by the FBI completely.

[realFedUp]

65. political opponents are private citizens.

as are church goers, group members....

[realFedUp]

46. Schiff's wondering how to define limits of authorization Bush got

from Congress...

[seafan]

47. Hersh: To send his agents into a Quaker meeting house to violate

my 1st and 4th amendment rights is illogical, unjust, and is like burning the village in order to save it.


Bamford: One of Nixon's targets was the Quakers. They were active in the anti-war movement.

[helderheid]

49. Ironically, Nixon was a Quaker

[seafan]

71. That kind of paranoia runs deeply. n/t

[helderheid]

57. Ashcroft made it possible for them to infiltrate the Quakers.

[seafan]

60. Atty Kate Martin: The Defense Dept is sending people into religious

meetings. The NSA is only one aspect of it.

[realFedUp]

63. Turley should be booked on all pundit shows.

and come on bloggers. Take Turley's phrase
that Bush committed a crime and post it
on your sites.

[Coexist]

69. good luck with that.

They will never have him on.

[Sydnie]

70. Good, let's ask him to do a chat here with us?

Worst that can happen is he will say no, right?

[Coexist]

75. I'd rather see him on CNN, so the masses can hear him speak

but I am a Democrat - I gladly take whatever crumbs I get nowadays.

[Sydnie]

77. Well, sometimes we have to BE the media, one post at a time

Start with educating ourselves and it will spread like a brushfire in the Texas wind.

[realFedUp]

67. I love Wexler....

he makes the point clearly and loudly.

[helderheid]

68. nodding my head

excellent!! And C-U-T-E to boot!

[Coexist]

that's so funny...

I was just mentally noting that he had that "good hair" that most politicians have.

[berner59]

74. Yes...quite loudly...go go go!!!

Making the point loud and clear!! Asking Hersh who was in that church...was it american citizens who had been to afghanistan??? Or grandmas and parents...

GREAT JOB!!!!

[Sydnie]

72. and in language that even the bushbots can understand!

Go Wexler Go!

[helderheid]

73. ON FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[in_cog_ni_to]

76. ONLY innocent, religious American citizens were at the church.

Other Quakers. None of them has traveled outside the country. They were people who were interested in getting at some truth.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

78. "as far as I know, none of us even called anyone outside of the US"

Wexler is getting pissed again! :)

[rodeodance]

84. Hersh says Quacker group labeled as 'credible threat'--my gawd!

[Nikki Stone 1]

110. Since when are DUCKS a credible threat?

:)

[in_cog_ni_to]

79. Wexler is CLARIFYING for Mr. Hersh. WHOA!

Wexler is pissed...called someone an SOB!!!!!! OMG!

[Sydnie]

80. Called Osama an SOB! n/t

[Binka]

81. The SOB is Osama

[Sydnie]

83. Hey Binka sweetie!

Good to see you. Hope Ben is doing great today too! :hug:

[Binka]

88. Thanks For Thinking Of The Binka Clan!

Ben is back in CA and I will be speaking with him tonight.

[in_cog_ni_to]

85. ah. Got it. n/t

[Viva_La_Revolution]

82. He was referring to Osama - "who threatened us again yesterday" nt

[helderheid]

86. I'm in tears - love Wexler!

http://www.wexler.house.gov/

[Sydnie]

90. I started the first time Hersh spoke

:hug: It is starting to unravel. We have a shorter time to wait than has already passed. That is the eye on the prize that I focus on now.

[seafan]

87. Wexler: Who was sitting in that Quaker church in Palm Beach County?

Hersh: There was me, there was a 79 yo grandmother, an Asian American housewife, a native American and student, a nurse, a retired pharmacist, a web designer, a marketing person, a businessman, a real estate agent, other Quakers.

None of us had traveled outside the country. None of us had to my knowledge made any phone calls outside the country. We were just interested in getting at some truth and educating our children so that they could make informed decisions.


Wexler: The Truth Group had a different philosophy from the president of the US. It has nothing to do with Iraq, Afghanistan or any terrorist activity.

If what the pres was doing was entirely legal, than why didn't he just go thru the process in the first place.

He chose a different path, without any legal means whatsoever to spy on you.


Hersh: We were a threat because we think differently than the president does.

[Binka]

91. Oh Snap!

Love it! Truth to POWER!

[Vinca]

94. I coming in on this late. Are they stuck in the basement again?? nt

[seafan]

95. Yes, but their message is booming from the rooftops. n/t

[helderheid]

96. I have CHILLS!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

89. Bamford - telling how the FISA court was getting warrant requests

to spy on people who were caught up in the illegal surveillance. The judge was starting to ask... where is this info coming from?

[helderheid]

92. I have been baffled as to why they didn't do it legally as they could

here is the answer!

[helderheid]

93. This is amazing amazing amazing

[helderheid]

97. wrapping it up

[Viva_La_Revolution]

101. There's the gavel. Meeting adjourned.

CSPAN was supposed to have a call-in segment. I guess not now. are they chickens???!

[annabanana]

98. hearing concluded... now what are those phone numbers??

[Coexist]

99. Canofun has lots of the clips up in GD already for those who

want to catch them.

[Poll_Blind]

100. Just concluded, an excellent program! n/t

PB

[tlsmith1963]

104. I Watched It

Luckily I was off from work today & could catch it all. The conclusion I have made is that the general public needs to be educated about exactly what we are dealing with here. The Bush Administration is neocon. The neocons began as followers of Trotsky. A Trotsky follower is not a true conservative. Actually, I need to be educated a bit on Trotsky. It's been awhile since I have read anything about him. I have heard that he advocated a constant state of revolution, but what else is he about? I heard that even Lenin despised the guy. Maybe we *all* need to know what Trotsky followers are all about, because if average Republicans knew that these types of people had infiltrated their party, they would be outraged.

Tammy

[EST]

102. It should be perfectly obvious that,

Despite their protestations to the contrary, their sham pronouncements of being the "party of reform, by their absence, the thugs have absolutely no intention of doing the right thing or cleaning up the criminal activity.
Republican=liar

[warbly]

105. anyone know where there is a transcript?

nothing i can find at cspan or Conyers' site

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

109. BIG F'ING KICK!