Official Conyers Forum Thread 11AM CSPAN

[Viva_La_Revolution]

Ready everybody?


5 minute countdown...

[Sydnie]

1. Checking in - ready n/t

[Coexist]

2. ready, Capn'

[Greeby]

3. Checking in

Hearing room, or the basement again? :popcorn:

[stop the bleeding]

4. Checking in going to CSPAN to feed now n/t

[stop the bleeding]

6. is it CSPAN 1? right now some dude is on talking about OBL - am I

in the right place??

[Viva_La_Revolution]

5. CSPANs front page has changed... Conyers is no longer headlining...

Now they have a nasty couple of slugs KKKarl and Melman.

uggh!

:puke:

Schedule still says Conyers at 11... but it's 3 min. after?!

[Greeby]

7. As is usual

The beginning and end of this live program may be earlier or later than the scheduled times. <-------- the disclaimer for live coverage

[Viva_La_Revolution]

8. I'm a leettle impatient this morning...

:)

[Sydnie]

10. Here they come! n/t

[Ivote]

It's On Now

www.c-span.org
:kick:

[stop the bleeding]

12. He's on!!!

[Coexist]

9. it's on!

[Sydnie]

13. In the friggin' basement again

Bad feedback on the mics too.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

11. Here we go!

Conyers says we didn't get the worst room in the basement this time! LOL!

[stop the bleeding]

14. cool

[gimama]

15. I'm SO ready

Thank YOU,John Conyers & the Cspan!!!

[stop the bleeding]

16. we are in a constitutional crisis - rock on!

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. Go Mr. Conyers!!!

Hi all!:hi:

[The Witch]

18. k&r, someone with TV please tell me who's there?

I am stuck with radio.

[Sydnie]

21. The room looks pretty big and very full

haven't shown who the panel is yet though.

edited to change info

[Viva_La_Revolution]

25. info from CSPAN

Forum
Domestic Spying Program
U.S. House of Representatives, Conyers, J. (D-MI)
Washington, District of Columbia (United States)

Conyers, John Jr., U.S. Representative, D-MI
Waters, Maxine, U.S. Representative, D-CA
Nadler, Jerrold, U.S. Representative, D-NY
Scott, Robert "Bobby", U.S. Representative, D-VA
Hinchey, Maurice, U.S. Representative, D-NY
Martin, Kate, Director, Center for Natl. Security Studies
Schiff, Adam B., U.S. Representative, D-CA
Bamford, James, Author
Van Hollen, Christopher, U.S. Representative, D, Maryland
Fein, Bruce, Attorney
Fredrickson, Caroline, Director, American Civil Liberties Union, Legislative Affairs


Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), ranking member on the Hse. Judiciary Cmte., joins other Democrats in a hearing on the Bush administration's domestic surveillance program. The National Security Administration recently released a White Paper, supporting the President's position.


They invited Gonzales... but of course he won't show.

[sabra]

19. kick

reco'd

[me b zola]

20. Checking in!

I will be running back and forth from the bedroom with the tv to our dining room with the computer :)

[The Witch]

22. My dream scenario:

Al Gore comes a'ridin' in. :)

[underpants]

23. OBL OBL OBL OBL OBL

Gee look what else the OBL tape is going to suck the oxygen out of...right on time.

[evirus]

24. maybe its just me....

not to be racist or anything, but it seems the black representitives are much more passonate in their arguments... (i only wish i was in conyers district, i got that republican tramp's district, only time i saw her on the floor she was using 9/11 as an excuse for her side of the vote)

[immoderate]

113. Not just you...

It seems like the BCC has been the leadership for progressive causes for quite some time.

--IMM

[liveoaktx]

26. In the basement-ALL other committee rooms full even though House in recess

[Coexist]

27. "Welcome everyone, to the basement"

Rep. Adam Schiff

[doublethink]

29. Republicans put the Democrats in the basement ....

but eventually we will rise and put all these criminal Republicans in PRISON! Where they belong! :) Checking in. :hi:

[evirus]

31. id take the more subtle approach

like remodel the basment rooms to look like a dungeon then stick them in their for all their meetings, have a camera handy to get their expressions when they see the rooms.... style

[doublethink]

43. Okay but we'll redecorate the basement only ......

for the ones not involved in their criminal activities. Which will leave a committee of about .... what 2 or 3 of um? :shrug: :)

[goclark]

99. That is what they do to slaves on a Plantation nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

28. Mr. Adam Schiff, I saw Bobby Scott and didn't catch who else is there.

I've never heard of this guy, Schiff, but I'm glad he's there.:)

[Viva_La_Revolution]

30. see post #25 for the list of attending. nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. , Thanks! Bruce Fein, REPUBLICAN, Constitutional Attorney

is testifying. I forgot about him. And James Bamford! This is going to be good!

[Idioteque]

32. He's a blue dog.

Pretty liberal for a blue dog though.

[rpgamerd00d]

60. WTF?! Adam Schiff is the DA from "Law & Order", a character !!

WTF?!

[realFedUp]

110. he's my Congressman...co-authored original Patriot Act

former prosecutor, likes most of the Patriot Act...
bone of contention with his district, voted
for invasion of Iraq. This appearance may be more political
cover on his end but I'm glad he understands separating the legal
from the illegal acts by Bush.

I hope he votes no on extending the Patriot Act
when it comes up for another vote the first week
in February.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

33. Van Hollen up now

[Viva_La_Revolution]

38. "any first year law student would quickly determine that this arguement...

is specious."

slam!

[Sydnie]

35. Please say you are going to fight the Patriot Act ,Rep Van Hollen

You would make my day if they came out with that outcome today as well.

[Coexist]

36. "making their argument longer, did not make it better"

there's your sound byte.

Thanks, Van Hollen.

Short, sweet and amusing.

[Sydnie]

37. "Making their argument longer didn't make it any better"

referring to the 42 page report issued yesterday. Great response to that piece of crap report!

[in_cog_ni_to]

39. He's GOOD! He has the opinion from the Justice Dept?

"Any first year law student, after reading it, would know it's specious."

[Viva_La_Revolution]

40. Rep. Bobby Scott up now

[Coexist]

41. Rep. Scott

"thank you for holding the second in a series of basement hearings"

I see a great theme here.

[goclark]

112. They really need to keep pointing these Plantation examples

out, there is no reason that we should be in a Basement!

[in_cog_ni_to]

42. Bobby Scott is up now. n/t

[Viva_La_Revolution]

44. Robert Wexler up now

[Viva_La_Revolution]

47. points out the threat to our security sitting in the audience...

some retired guy, member of a peace (truth?) group in Florida.

:lol:

[Sydnie]

45. Interesting point

I hadn't heard this before - FISA warrants must show that it is an "agent of a foreign government". Could that be their argument? These are not members of a government, they are members of an ideology instead?

[gkhouston]

65. I'm betting FISA wouldn't be too sticky on the "government"

part if they demonstrated the threat.

on edit: and if they were the show-stopper, why didn't they try to get the law changed? And why hasn't this point been made before now?

[Sydnie]

71. I don't know

It appeared to be a passing reference, as if everyone already understood that fact. I sure didn't. Not till I heard him say it.

Sure makes a good argument for everytime they change the title of the conflict (War In Iraq is VERY specific and lists a country), to GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR (which has no country but encompasses ALL countries). We need to look very carefully at the language they are using these days. Appears that there maybe a great deal to learn about their actions by the words they choose.

[Coexist]

46. Wexler up now.

I was surprised to learn that the "Truth Project" is considered to be a "credible threat" to this country.
Ha haha

[Viva_La_Revolution]

49. oohhhh! he's getting loud!

More yelling! more passion! :)

[Coexist]

48. (they cannot).. declare by FIAT...

good one.

[Sydnie]

51. WooHoo!

Great speech. He is pissed a bit, you think?

[in_cog_ni_to]

50. WHOA! Wexler's on FIRE!

:woohoo:

[helderheid]

52. that... was.... AWESOME!

[sabra]

53. destroying the "they hate our freedom" meme

[Viva_La_Revolution]

54. Diane Watson up now

[Viva_La_Revolution]

55. "We have an administration that prefers to work in the dark"

like vampires - imho

[in_cog_ni_to]

56. Diane Watson...Thanking Conyers for calling the hearing

at a time when we should be in session doing the people's business. :) Sweet. Nice little jab.

[mod mom]

57. REP WATSON MADE A MISTAKE-SAID PREZ ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE.

[in_cog_ni_to]

I wish they would just tell the truth. They all know what happened.

:( None of them ever refer to him as a illegitimate piece of crap and he IS. I guess that's a little over the top?:7

[Viva_La_Revolution]

58. Conyers is introducing the witness panel now.

[in_cog_ni_to]

59. YAY! Bruce Fein is up first. This guy will do MAJOR damage to the repuke

law breakers.

[Poll_Blind]

61. K&R, this is great! n/t

PB

[mod mom]

62. I just saw one of Rosebud's "BUSH CHEATED '04 buttons on a person

behind one of the guests!

[helderheid]

66. WOW seriously???

[mod mom]

70. Yes, it is a rectangular blue button behind the woman with mid length

curly hair. Sorry I missed her name.

[debbierlus]

63. WEBSITE IS DOWN

AUDIO IS AVAILABLE THROUGH RAWSTORY....

I wonder why the website is down???

FASCIST STATE

[in_cog_ni_to]

67. Here's a link. It works for me.

http://www.c-span.org/

[Sydnie]

64. Good - He's swearing them in

I was wondering if he was going to do it or not. Good. It's legit and legal as far as I am concerned.

[in_cog_ni_to]

69. Yup. It's legal, binding and on the record.

Screw the repukes. This just makes them look worse than they already do.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

68. "the founding fathers understood that men are not angels...

and "trust me" is not a good enough defense."

opening statement for Fein! :)

[Coexist]

72. "the more specific statute overrules the more general one"

Thank you for that.

[tgnyc]

73. Fein -- Reagan Justice Dept. Official taking it apart.

His bottom line: it is obvious he is violating the law, and his excuse is not plausible. By Bush's argument, he can do anything, forever.

[in_cog_ni_to]

74. The authorization of force DOES NOT refer to FISA.

He is violating FISA. THIS GUY IS A REPUBLICAN!:woohoo:

[in_cog_ni_to]

"IF this goes unchecked,

it will lie around like a loaded gun"

[Viva_La_Revolution]

75. Bamford up now!

[tgnyc]

76. Fein nailed it in 5 minutes flat, better than anyone I've heard thus far.

The video should be saved, edited slightly, and e-mailed around the country.

[rodeodance]

81. I only hope many curious people are tuning in today.

[in_cog_ni_to]

77. WOOHOO! Bam, Bam

Bamford!!!!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

78. Trivia for the day - NSA was created in secret by Truman in the 50's...

and was kept a secret for over a decade.

[Coexist]

80. Dr. Spock and MLK were listened to by Nixon.

Dr. Spock??!

[annabanana]

79. mentioning Nixon's ordering of NSA to

listen to protesters in the 60'a

[Sydnie]

83. DR SPOCK? The listened in on Dr. Spock?

Can't imagine what they thought they would hear there.

[annabanana]

85. a true pacifist...

His basic love of humanity wasn't confined to babies, you know.

[annabanana]

82. great history lesson..

Justice
"looking at NSA" as a criminal enterprise back in 60's

[in_cog_ni_to]

84. Bamford know EVERYTHING about NSA. This is bad for the idiot.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

86. "2 MILLION COMMUNICATIONS PER HOUR FROM EACH

LISTENING STATION"

'LIMITED' MY ASS!

[Sydnie]

89. No wonder they wrote to tell them that they were burying them

with work, most of which led to nothing usable anyway. What a waste of our money!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

87. Prof. Jonathan Turley up now

[Viva_La_Revolution]

94. "The Supreme Court has already rejected the very arguements being made

by this admistration"

"in my view the president has broken the law"

'That was the most remarkable admission I have ever heard from a sitting president"

[in_cog_ni_to]

88. Jonathan Turley! This guy is SHARP too. They have GREAT witnesses!

[mod mom]

90. Congress and his staff are top notch! nt

[mdmc]

93. And a shout out to the Big Mo

Hinchey! Hinchey!

[realFedUp]

91. Turley - The President committed a crime. nt

[helderheid]

92. What the President ordered was a CRIME

CRIME
CRIME
CRIME!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

96. "all 5 claims in the NSA white paper are merit-less."

[tgnyc]

95. Turley: It is amazing that President admitted to breaking the law and

promised to do it again until somebody stops him.

[Coexist]

97. Wow - he is amazing

Imagine if he was allowed to testify before Congress or the Senate at an "approved" hearing.

[Sydnie]

98. I am loving this guy!

He knows his stuff. I am in awe of the whole panel actually.

[in_cog_ni_to]

He's seems very angry at this administration.

GOOD. He's just the kind of person we need to ne angry.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

100. Richard Hersh up now

from the Truth Project

[in_cog_ni_to]

105. Who's this guy? I've never seen him before.

[Sydnie]

107. One of the quakers that were spied on

although it appears that they were using the quaker church, not that he was a quaker.

[BuyingThyme]

101. I used to hate Turley. Now I want to bake cookies for him.

Good thread!

[realFedUp]

102. Pass a statute

this is a good read and perhaps a way for Congress
to address this illegal eavesdropping:

http://lawculture.blogs.com/lawculture/2006/01/solving_the_con.html

January 19, 2006
Solving the Constitutional Crisis
Vice president Gore says the NSA spying controversy occasions a constitutional crisis because the President is acting flatly inconsistent with a federal statute, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). That's certainly true, if you believe, as I do, that the administration is wrong in arguing that the Authorization to Use Military Force (AUMF) that Congress enacted did not impliedly repeal or otherwise displace the FISA warrant requirements. The President's only authority would then be his assertion of an exclusive power as commander-in-chief in this area. Even the President's supporters must acknowledge that, at a minimum, it's an open question whether that's right. But Vice President Gore also usefully turned attention away from whether the President acted unlawfully to what can be done about it if he did. He makes a variety of recommendations, including the appointment of an independent counsel (IC).

In my view, relying on an IC wrongly frames the issue as if it concerns a kind of venal criminality as opposed to a potentially dangerous assertion of unchecked executive power. But whether you agree with that or not, it must be said that the independent counsel is unlikely to be appointed. And even if one was, suppose he agreed with the President's constitutional view and declined to prosecute. Should that single person's judgment count as a conclusive determination of the merits of such a fundamental issue of separation of powers?

snip

A better solution, I think, would be for Congress to pass a statute that kicks the question to the Supreme Court by amending FISA to confer standing for a declaratory judgment that the NSA program is unlawful. The statute could authorize suits by persons who have a reasonable basis for claiming that they are chilled by the spying program, designating such persons as those whose employment regularly requires them to make overseas calls in connection with academic or journalistic work related to the war on terrorism. Such a statute would significantly help overcome the myriad jurisdictional obstacles that the plaintiffs in the ACLU's suit are likely to face -- obstacles that arise because no one knows if the plainitffs have been wiretapped or not and because the discovery process is itself likely to be a nightmare even if it is permitted to get underway. The Court's unlikely to confer standing to the current plaintiffs in the absence of a statute granting it on the basis of speculative claim of chill. But it's much more likely to do so if Congress has given them a statutory right to sue.

continued

[mod mom]

103. Turley: "It is up to us." Yes it is.

[Coexist]

104. Hersch "I can only assume I am the expert in being spied upon"

cute.

[tgnyc]

106. With more time, Turley clearly was ready to completely destroy *

I hope he gets to testify before whatever other authority investigates this.

[in_cog_ni_to]

108. He covered the Quaker spying story? RUH, ROH!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

109. Thread 2 is up!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x192888

[in_cog_ni_to]

111. OMG...this is HUGE! He has FIRS-HAND KNOWLEDGE of what went down

with the Quakers. This is very DAMNING!

[pinto]

114. Thread two is here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x192888