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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:25 PM
Original message
Going Too Far (or, my conversation with the Bush supporter at the bar)
Edited on Wed Dec-28-05 09:35 PM by WilliamPitt
The bouncer at my bar is named Ty. A native of New Orleans, he speaks with the slow drawl unique to the region, and he is huge. Not outlandishly huge, not freakishly huge, but definitely one of the larger specimens of human one is likely to meet. He works the door at my joint, as well as at another bar down the street a ways. Ty is smart, funny as all get-out, and a marvelous spinner of tales.

Each night Ty works, he regales my friends and I with stories of mayhem and bouncer-justice, of the drunken boobs stupid enough to think they can push him around at the other establishment. My bar, one gets the sense, is too peaceful for his tastes; he has never been forced to exercise his talents while working at my joint.

Ty and I have assiduously observed the tenets of that invisible sign which hangs over the door of every drinking establishment in America: “Thou Shalt Not Discuss Religion Or Politics In This Place.” The two reasons for this are straightforward: I don’t particularly relish the idea of discussing work when I am in my cups; also, Ty is an ardent Bush supporter, so the first reason becomes doubly significant. If I want to get frustrated and annoyed, I can just turn on CNN and listen to the Know-Nothings ply their wares.

A funny thing happened the other night, however, something that changed the whole dynamic of our relationship. I was passing by Ty, and he grabbed me by the arm to pull me aside. He knows what I do for a living, and wanted to discuss politics in defiance of the invisible sign. “What do you think of the Patriot Act?” he asked me

“I think it’s a damned troubling thing,” I said after a moment. “There are aspects of it that have been on the books for years because of the War on Drugs. There are aspects of it that are brand new to American law. Overall, I think it is tremendously invasive and not in line with how we have done things in this country. As a Republican,” I said with a bit of the needle in my voice, “the issues of personal freedom and governmental interference should bother you.”

“I ain’t no Republican,” he said. “I’m an Independent. I think they’re all crooks.”

“Fair enough,” I said, “but you are a Bush supporter.”

“Yep,” he drawled. “So what parts of the Patriot Act don’t you like?”

“Well,” I said, “one scary part of it is Section 215, the thing people call the ‘Sneak-and-Peek’ provision. Section 215 says law enforcement can enter your house, search your stuff, bug your phone, bug your computer, and they never have to tell you they were there. The FBI could have 215ed their way into my house and I’d never know it. Hell, they could be there right now. All they need is a warrant signed by a judge somewhere to do it.”

“That ain’t right,” he said after a moments consideration. “But at least they have to talk to a judge.”

“Well,” I said, “have you heard about all this stuff with the National Security Agency spying on people here in America?”

“Little bit, yeah,” he said.

“You know that the NSA can spy on pretty much anyone, tap their phones, do total surveillance?” I asked, and he nodded. “Well, back in 2002, Bush told the NSA to start spying on Americans. Lots of them. But he did this without going through the FISA court.”

“FISA court?” he asked.

“FISA stands for the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which was passed in 1978,” I said. “After Watergate and all that craziness, they wanted to make sure our intelligence services weren’t being used by people in power to spy on Americans. If you want to get the NSA to spy on Americans, you have to get a warrant from what’s called the FISA court. That’s a few judges who hear an argument for a special FISA warrant.”

“OK.”

“Now here’s one of the crazy parts with this Bush-NSA thing,” I said. “To get a warrant from this FISA court, you don’t need to have probable cause. You don’t need to have evidence. The FISA court has handed out more than 19,000 warrants since it was set up, and has only denied four. And they do it quick, because obviously if you go before the FISA court for a warrant, you’re probably pressed for time. It’s the easiest court in America to get a warrant from. Bush totally blew past them, said he didn’t need warrants from the FISA court, and just had the NSA start spying away on Americans.”

Ty’s response to this was too profane to be printed here.

“Why the hell’d he do that?” he finally asked.

“Good question,” I said. “There are two probable reasons, neither of which are very comfortable. The first reason is that he and Cheney want to expand the power of the Executive Branch. Cheney, specifically, has always felt that the Executive let go of too much power after Watergate and Vietnam, gave too much power to Congress and the press, and these guys have been trying to get it back. So they decided that, since we are ‘at war,’ they were going to do whatever they damned well pleased.”

“Seems smart,” he said.

“Maybe,” I said, “but that’s a different debate. Ask yourself this, though. Imagine a Democrat wins the White House in 2008. These Bush guys will have left this Democrat with outrageously broad powers. They can spy on who they like, because Bush did it. They don’t have to get warrants, because Bush did it. They can lie to the press, because Bush did it. They can bulldoze Congress, because Bush did it. That make you comfortable?”

“Hell no,” he said.

“Right,” I said. “Too much power is too much power, no matter who is in power. The separation of powers is there for a reason.”

“So what’s the other reason you think he didn’t get the FISA warrants?” he asked.

“That,” I said, “is actually the scarier part. Like I said, FISA has given out those 19,000 warrants and has only denied four. It’s incredibly easy to get a warrant from them. The only reason they’re there at all is to safeguard your privacy and mine, to make sure some crazy maniac in the White House doesn’t start spying on Americans, on personal enemies, on you and me. The NSA can do that, so the FISA court is there as a firewall.”

“OK,” he said.

“So maybe,” I said, “Bush didn’t go to the FISA court because he knew they wouldn’t give him the warrants. Maybe he didn’t go to the FISA court because he wanted to spy on enemies like Patrick Fitzgerald, like Joe Wilson, like Cindy Sheehan, like Tom Daschle or Harry Reid, or anyone else who was messing with him. Maybe he didn’t go to the FISA court because he knew the surveillance he wanted was illegal, but he was damned well going to do it anyway.”

“That ain’t right,” said Ty, his face reddening.

“Now take this all one step further,” I said, “since you asked about the Patriot Act. Think about that Section 215 and the sneak-and-peek stuff. I told you they need to see a judge first to come into your house, search and bug your stuff. But this whole NSA deal shows that Bush and these guys don’t give a hoot in hell for judges, warrants or the process of law. They’re going to do what they want to do, warrant or not. We’ve got a situation now where Bush and his people could not only be ordering the surveillance of Americans, but could also be authorizing home invasions, and all without any kind of warrants and oversight. What does that sound like to you?”

“Fascism,” he said without hesitating.

“This is the reason,” I said with a smile, “why I don’t talk politics at the bar. I have a way of going on and on until the paint peels. But let me ask you one last question.”

“Shoot,” he said.

“As a Bush supporter,” I said, “how far are you willing to go to support the guy? How much individual liberty, how many laws, are you willing to give up to Bush before we lose the country? How far is too far?”

Ty didn’t have anything to say at first. “This,” he finally muttered, “is too damned far.”

At that moment, a crowd of people came into the bar, and Ty had to check their IDs. I went back to my beer.

Drip, drip, drip.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow, what a story!
I think you turned one there, Will. Congrats!
K&R
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tlsmith1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wow...
You found a Bush supporter who actually *thinks*! Maybe we need to talk to them the way you talked to that guy. Just explain what the Patriot Act & the spying really mean. Hopefully, we will get through to some of them. They really have no idea how fascists operate.

Tammy
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Tammy, this "Bush Supporter" doesn't actually think
If he did, he wouldn't be a Bush Supporter five years into BushCo.

He got caught with his brain shield down. Foreign thoughts were able to enter his zone, and if he had been discussing the same subject with a foil less erudite than Mr. Pitt, he likely would have not been "turned." He was just another moran lucky enough to have fallen into the Pitt.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Altman!! best quote ever !!!
"just another moran lucky enough to have fallen into the Pitt."
I LOVE it!!!
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OhNoTheyDidNot Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
54. Haha - When I was reading this post I was thinking to myself, damn I wish
I could have clever conversations with republicans like this. My little talks with them usually end up with them calling me a dirty liberal .... and the ones I talk to never ask questions like Ty - they just go on and on about how Bush is keeping the stock market going strong with his tax cuts. Of course, Mr. Pitt could probably lead them much better than I do .... and end up changing thier minds. Anyway, what a great post!
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #54
112. I know the feeling.
A coworker and I have agreed not to discuss anything not strictly work related.

The woman was handing out tickets, "invitations", to the "Left Behind" movies at her church. There's an epidemic of this type in my area. :(
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az chela Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Intensly profound
Wow that was an awesome story,true or not the meaning is so clear a 5 year old can get it!!!!
Thanks for all your great stories,I was sitting on the edge of my chair reading this one
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. 100% true
I even got pretty much all the conversation down as it happened. My memory is pretty photographic when it comes to conversations, and this one especially stood out.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
25. OT...I read that wrong: "My memory is pretty pornographic."
Time for bed, methinks. :crazy:

Anyway, good job, Pitt.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
48. Make that "phonographic"--
as in the Gene Wilder flick Young Frankenstein.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #48
75. I thought he said his memory was "photogenic"
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #75
106. Nah--he rememeberd anything he heard,
which is why he was always cupping his ear and leaning toward other people's conversations.
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liberalla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
78. Man, that was good!
I bet Ty is going to be talking to you about these issues a lot more.
You've pulled back the curtain -- He's not on 'auto' any longer.
He'll be having many more questions and concerns, I bet!

Please consider keeping us informed on all the Ty conversations!
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
115. Yeah, I was waiting for the good part...when he got bounced!
Only kidding Will. Great story! Get started and write some more.
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Terran1212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. You did good
Good job as a citizen!
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. Best goddam post I've read here in ages.
Fantastic narrative. Everything about it was perfect. I'm e-mailing it, printing it, laminating it.

Mother fucking hell, this country is soooooooooo fucked up. Ty is a large part of the problem. If it weren't for an intelligent bar patron who figured it worth his time to broach the subject, Ty would have gone home that night as ignorant a Bush supporter as when he clocked in. Yet, there are literally tens of thousands, millions of Tys out there. They don't fight cuz they don't know they're being fought.

Enlightenment is the key.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. I would say you laid the bouncer out cold,
but it sounds like he is fully awake now. Nice job, Mr. Pitt. :)
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. I am always amazed that they know so little about what affects...
them so personally.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. That's just it
It's never themselves it affects, it's THEM. The other-the bad guy, the terrorist. It could never affect them personally because they are innocent,see? And the government is not just going to go after them just because uh they don't like them or something. Or don't like their politics or religion or freedom of speech or..well as long as you agree and nod everything will be fine. I ain't no terrorist so why should I worry? And oddly enough, the are truly the innocent. Innocent of history and the true purpose of all government which is it's own interests, first last and always.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
70. This is why I can't talk to the fascists on my "other" forum any more.
I can't call them conservatives, or Republicans, or even Repukes or hardcore freepers these days. I can only call them what they are: fascists. They have no problem with the Bush administration spying on ME, because they think a liberal is the next thing to a terrorist anyway.

But they are somehow blissfully secure in the notion that they will NEVER, under any circumstances, be mistaken for terrorists by anyone, so what do they have to worry about? I say, what if the next president is a Democrat? Would you want him or her having that kind of power? But even that doesn't seem to register. I guess they think Diebold is going to keep on stealing elections for them into the indefinite future (and maybe they're right--horrifying thought!)

I don't know. I just know that appeals to our common humanity and/or nationality just seem to fall on deaf ears, to the point where I no longer believe in it either. They are NOT American in the same sense that I am...nor are they human, apparently.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. I overheard my rwing sibling relaying a conversation with a rwing friend
Christmas Day. He called his friend who answered the phone, "George, is that you. 'Cause if it is you wiretapping, illegally spying son of a bitch, I've never regretted a vote more in my life." He's pissed off, and I believe frightened, a lot of his rabid supporters with this.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
116. Let's hope so!
"He's pissed off, and I believe frightened, a lot of his rabid supporters with this."
"
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. Good Job
we'll see what other Bush Supporters say.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. As an aside, Mike Malloy said that the FISA Court is illegal
and unConstitutional. He also said that FISA Court was fed up with the bush administration's requests for warrants that they felt weren't warranted and that is why bushco side stepped them and authorized the NSA to wiretap. Is that correct? Or did I hear Malloy wrong or misinterpret what he was saying?
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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. Yes, there was a UPI story, I copied but didn't save the link
Bush was denied wiretaps, bypassed them

WASHINGTON, Dec. 26 (UPI) -- U.S. President George Bush decided to skip seeking warrants for international wiretaps because the court was challenging him at an unprecedented rate.

A review of Justice Department reports to Congress by Hearst newspapers shows the 26-year-old Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court modified more wiretap requests from the Bush administration than the four previous presidential administrations combined.

The 11-judge court that authorizes FISA wiretaps modified only two search warrant orders out of the 13,102 applications approved over the first 22 years of the court's operation.

But since 2001, the judges have modified 179 of the 5,645 requests for surveillance by the Bush administration, the report said. A total of 173 of those court-ordered "substantive modifications" took place in 2003 and 2004. And, the judges also rejected or deferred at least six requests for warrants during those two years -- the first outright rejection of a wiretap request in the court's history.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Thank you for that and as to Malloy's claim that the FISA Court
is illegal and UnConstitutional, if I heard him correct, is that true. Or do you have knowledge of that?
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. Nicely written...
And from me, that doesn't come light.

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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
14. There's something magical about your writing, Will.
First-class story!

I am confident this time he's gone too far for many of his soon-to-be-ex-supporters. I have been asking Bushies how they like him, now that they know he's spying on them.
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WLKjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. I bet Ty is a changed man.
You just handed him a flashlight for the dark closet he was in.
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. Great story. Wish the republicans I know would
stop saying "If you don't have anything to hide, why would you care"
:banghead:
Thanks. I think I'll keep trying, especially because I live with one
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
41. my bro X-mas eve: 'only those with something to hide oppose the spying'
and 'my rights aren't worth an a-bomb with millions dead'
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DawgHouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. This is a great post!
I'm bookmarking it! :) Thanks!
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. Thank you, Mr. Pitt...........
a great story and a great ending. That it's true makes it better.

When you've enlightened as many as you can reach down there, we have this province called "Alberta" that could use some attention........although not as much. They've decided that Stephen Harper, the bush clone, would be a fine leader........Sigh.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
20. Good one
You hit the nail on the head. It isn't the fact that republicans are doing what they are doing, it is anyone up there doing it. If the tables were turned the republicans would be freaking out over this. There will be some who do I believe.
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GrumpyGreg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
21. Another reason to stay out of bars. n/t
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Arkham House Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
22. Truth really is stranger than fiction...
Amazing, Really amazing...congratulations, Will, for helping make the country just a little smarter. But why does this story sound a little like an episode of "Alfred Hitchcock Presents"...?
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
23. Is that the sound of thunder I hear?


Just saw this go up.


It is " too damned far". Thank you again Will ....for these and all the good words in this last year.


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firefox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
24. You are a champion gladiator
But you know, it is going to get harder to find people to slay.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
27. Damn Will, That Is One Hell Of A Story!
Bravo to you my good man. Nobody does it better (including relaying the story back to an audience)

As always Will, you rock! :yourock:

Now get your ass back to the bar and convert some more! :P
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
28. Bad Will
me caught him
:spank:
(aint drinking no more)
Will?
Bad bad freeper inflitrator :rofl:

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adarling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. amazing
you are very articulate and i love to read about peoples encounters with Bush supporters and see what they have accomplished. Start one at a time and it will spread like wildfire. fantastic work my friend :)
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
30. I am hearing your voice in my head
With that machine gun speed talk you have when you're getting to an important point and nothing, especially lack of time, is going to stop you. Will Pitt takes down another Republican (independent?!?) and turns him into an ally in 30 seconds flat.

Good on ya. :yourock:
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
32. thanks for sharing
:D
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
33. I love this story. n/t
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
35. Brilliant.
I wish I were that focused when I have to talk politics to one of the brainwashed.

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mia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
36. Love the bar context!
This is a story I can send to my Republican friends and relatives. One of the things we still have in common is having enjoyed one another's company in a bar.

Going Too Far... is so well written that the message might bring them a little closer to accepting the reality of what's going on. I may have to shorten the title to just the first 3 words to lure them in though.

:toast:




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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
37. Two great stories told at the same time.
A glimpse into your life. And the thought of being able to grab Will Pitt by the arm and force his thoughts. That's worth a lot.

And another snapshot at a private conversation. It's people like me who learn from these kinds of things. Looking in on something. Being able to observe. I spend time at DU and other forums, reading reading reading. But putting it to practice is nowhere to be seen, because I don't know how it's done.

I just got a hell of a lot from this post. I know you just fired it off. But from another perspective, this was a lesson. A demonstration of how it's done.

I've been dying to see how people put their knowledge into practice. Hanging out in the forum is only the first step. The power comes from multiplying our forces.

Thanks so much for sharing this, Will!

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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
38. Excellent!
Thanks for sharing.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
39. "...too damned far.” //eyes well up//
You deserve a citizenship award for this! He knew where you stood, you knew where stood. When he was ready & open to hear the truth he came to you. You, then, explained things simply and in a manner that could make sense to him. You did Ty a great favor, hopefully he can take that forward to other candidates that are all show and no (bad) substance.

((((((((((((((((((Will's Ripple))))))))))))))))))))
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
40. You have a gift sir. Thank you.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
42. I don't beleive a word of it. But it's truth nonetheless.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #42
53. i'm glad i'm not the only person in the liar's club
i'm a little irked we can't be trusted to read properly labeled fiction

will, c'mon, some of us have been in bars w. actual bouncers from new orleans IN new orleans

there's nothing wrong w. parables, even jesus told parables, but i'm uncomfortable w. crossing the line into fiction w.out proper notice

we'd be really peeved if the wingnuts tried to pretend a tall tale was a true story

is this a test?
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. What evidence do you have that this is not true? n/t
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. i'm from new orleans
sorry, there is only one topic of discussion and it ain't that

come on down, you'll find out
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. As I read this, it did not happen in NO. The bouncer was FROM there.
And who knows how long ago, it doesn't say.

Sorry, but in the rest of the country, people are talking more about politics than your troubles in NOLA.



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OhNoTheyDidNot Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #57
61. You are? How are you doing? Can you tell me more about what is being
said in NO and how people in general are doing?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #57
65. I live in Boston, genius
Try again.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
43. Great post!
One point, and Will can correct me if he thinks that I'm wrong, but I think that this guy may have been looking to be convinced. He knows what you do for a living and yet, seemingly out of the blue, he asked for your opinion on the Patriot Act. That sounds to me like someone who's been thinking about it and was looking for an alternate viewpoint. I don't say that to disparage your excellent powers of persuasion, but I think it's an important point. This man may have been already questioning his beliefs on his own. If he was, that's a very good thing and hopefully is indicative of a trend.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
44. Excellent!
Thank you, another great one!
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
45. You need to stay out of the bars dude.
Or youll end up looking like that fat little troll whatsisname. Catgirl had a post about him. He looked like shlt.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
46. Dude is from New Orleans.. doesn't he have any problem with what went
down in August?
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #46
55. since the whole tale is fiction august didn't happen
Edited on Wed Dec-28-05 11:58 PM by pitohui
i don't think anyone who actually lives in new orleans is buying this post

you are correct, there is only one topic of conversation for people from south louisiana and mississippi

will is testing us for reasons of us his own no doubt

did i pass the audition?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #55
73. Funny
how it all happened in Boston, where I live, and he works.

Care to take me up on my bet?
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #55
88. How do you know you're really from New Orleans?
Mr. Pitt is generally known for his non-fiction.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #55
94. you wouldn't say that if you ever met Will. This is what he does 24/7
365. He's the kind of machine that drives his loved ones nuts by running around yapping politics to aquantainces and winning his small victories all day long. It's just who he is, and we could use more of his kind.
I'm sure he just doesn't want to bore us with pointless stories of the brainwashed and belligerent, but that's gotta happen too. We are talking about humanity here.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #46
71. We didn't talk about that.
I'll ask then next time I go.
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Sparkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #71
102. Topic is far too common place to be fiction. Sound like recounted dialog,
To you critics, what doesn't pass the smell test? I've had several similar conversations WITH FRIENDS. Don't forget, the story is about friends, meeting at the local watering hole.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
47. Now Why Can't I DO THAT??
I can't get past "you're a Bush supporter?" "Yup" without LOSING IT. I used to be able to but...now it's all just too much. I admire your restraint Will, and will try to act in a similar manner in the New Year. Yelling at people doesn't change any minds.q
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
49. Good job Mr. Pitt
See why you don't write people off? Perfect example Mr. Pitt. The so-called "Patriot Act" and stories like this is a good way to get people to vote democratic in 2006.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
50. One more person sees the truth
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britpopper Donating Member (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
51. Awesome...
Enlightening the dim bulbs one at a time...
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #51
117. I don't see how any Freepers that hang out /spy on DU and
read stuff like this can remain Republican/dim witted.
Their bulbs have gotta go on...sooner or later.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
52. fiction science fiction
i don't mind tall tales being spun but i'm a little queasy this is damn close to being promulgated as something that actually happened
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #52
62. Sorry pitohui I believe Will on this
It happened in Mass, not Louisiana.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #52
66. Come to Boston
I will bet you $10,000 on the veracity of this story. I will take you to the bar, introduce you to Ty, and have him give his version of this story.

Come to Boston. Ten grand. Wanna try?
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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #66
72. Do I hear crickets or feet running to the airport?
Hard to tell.

If this person was familiar with your work, Will.... Still, I hate that you have to stand up and defend what is a simple - this happened to me kind of thing.

Sheeple just don't get it. When you really believe in America and our freedoms, you arm yourself with the facts to the best of your ability in this covert society we live in these days. When you open your mouth the ring of truth and the air of reasonableness in your voice is such a welcome change to the "being pounded over the head with talking points" kind of response they get in rethuglican world that winning people over is the easy part.

The hard part? Herding cats.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #72
74. All I know
is the bar I go to, and the doorman, and the conversation we had.

Tonight I gave him Body of Secrets by James Bamford, because he was so interested in the matter. Talked to his Democrat girlfriend, too. She's awfully nice, but so is Ty. It was a good night.
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #74
83. Cool. It's quite a weighty read. Maybe when he finishes that he'll pick
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 09:10 AM by LibInTexas
up "The Puzzle Palace" Bamford's older first book about the NSA. Still quite fascinating even 23 years after it first appeared in print.

One of the problems with the cons and Bushites I've noticed, is that they don't read. If you go to their houses you never see a bookshelf that has books, you never see any kind of book on the coffee table or nightstand. And I don't mean just reading political books. They don't read novels, biographies, other non-fiction books, or newspapers. Therefore, their world view comes from the TV or what they hear in the car on AM radio.

I've tried to get some of these people to read. Read anything. I've given them books I thought they would be interested in and they never get around to reading them. Some people are just not wired into doing that for some reason.

I'm glad Ty has tackled this book and hopefully if he has a good experience with it, it will lead him to pick up other books and read them too.

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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:54 AM
Response to Reply #52
82. Science Fiction?
Can't you even have the decency to look up the right term with which to insult someone? What elements of science and/or the future were used as a device in relaying of the above anecdote?
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #52
121. You Are Trying too Hard
That smells.
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Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
59. Jeezz, thanks for sharing.
Good to hear that Ty won't blindly support Bush Inc just because he's a supporter.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
60. Great story Will
:bounce:
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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
63. Thanks Will. Kickety Kick!
I've been noticing lot's of "new" Independents and Libertarians who are still trying to justify bushit, but are listening to what average people have to say.

Couple years ago they were probably right behind *ush. Now they want to distance themselves from the smell, but still keep their prized ideologies as long as they don't go "down" with this sinking ship.

There is this whole segment of society that is on a "they're all crooks" bent. It seems that they want to drag DEMs down too, just on general purposes, because if the rethugs are doing it then everyone is guilty by association.

I don't quite know what to make of those kind of comments. I don't believe that everyone is crooked. I know mistakes have been made, balls dropped and some crooked deals even in the house of DEMs, but not at the rate or with the audacity of the rethugs.

AND the DEMs are standing up and fighting back. Especially John Conyers, he's been at the center of things that need to be done every step of the way.

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skibum49 Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
64. There's a third possibility
"Good question," I said. "There are two probable reasons, neither of which are very comfortable"


As unlikely as it may seem in an effort to be "fair and balanced" there is a THIRD possible explanation.

Maybe the folks doing the intercepts were too inept or too lazy:)
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. Enjoy your short stay
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
68. A friend offers some reflections in response to Will...
A friend of mine on another discussion board has a great follow up to Will's post. It's a long response and the part I'm quoting below is about 3/4s of the way through but the entire post is well worth the read...

The drill that Pitt describes is what it takes to change history. Millions of us have to be ready to find the right moment to risk friendships or black eyes to engage our fellow citizens one on one. There is no way that anybody can commit to being one of those millions if she is waiting for everybody else to do it first.

Lech Walesa kicked the ass of the Soviet Union by organizing his depressed and cowed countrymen on City buses, one conversation at a time.

King, Walesa, the gay rights movement, the various waves of the women's movement -- the will to challenge the State cannot come from a comfort zone of assumed victory or the presumed normalcy of informed democratic participation in the affairs of state.

In America, as in Hogwashstein, the majority of people have private concerns that command attention and resources. I agree that people are foolish to embrace those personal pursuits to the exclusion of their responsibility as citizens of a republic -- but what are you going to do?

The average American Joe has been trained to follow the crowd rather than think for himself. You are right that only when he fears that his ration of beer will be cut will he become a revolutionary, and not before. The significance of this is minimal, however. All we really need is for the Average Joe to get the fuck out of the way and not rally to Bush when the shit starts to happen.


From Fire With Fire aka Dave T on UpsizeThis.org
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Citrene Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
69. Just plain and simple quite damned beautiful! Thank you Will! n/t
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
76. Wow, Will, you did a great job!!!
You truly is gifted!!!
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
77. Nice, thanks!
:toast: Great Story!
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
79. Not to rain on any well-earned parade, but...
If Ty grabbed Will Pitt for this discussion, he was already 85-90% convinced it was "too damn far." He didn't ask a Young Republican. He asked Will. He wanted reinforcement of what he suspected, and he got it.

Ty has been hearing what's been going on and he's been drawing his own conclusions. HE LOOKED UP A SECTION OF THE PATRIOT ACT. Either someone called that section to his attention, and it gnawed on him, or he read quite a few sections and found it. He was very specific for an idle question.

It's something we need to remember: Ty used his own good brain first. Before he asked Will, he asked himself, and it didn't look good. So he went for confirmation. A second opinion. But the first opinion was his.

Many of our fellow Americans are using their brains like Ty these days. That's why there are so few actual red states left. They're reasoning it out for themselves, despite the MSM, Fox, MSNBC, all of it.

Will Pitt, you did good. My respect to Ty.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. "My respect to Ty."
Mine, too.

Thanks for getting the ultimate point.

:toast:
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PittLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:37 AM
Response to Original message
81. Monday is the best night at my bar ...
I am also a bartender (for now), but when I am done - I head to a local bar for late night action. Politics, I mean. I have the best time. After the regulars clear out, we have free reign to discuss. The forum usually consists of Earl, the bartender (late 50's or so) who is what I define as pretty damn progressive in this Democratic-but-conservative town; Billy, a 40 something police officer with liberal/libertarian leanings and myself ... a 30-year old female with seriously progressive/and generally confrontational views. Sometimes we'll get a young union guy to join in, often times we get a local 50ish prison guard who claims to be libertarian-but-supports-Bush and likes to defend gun owners at all costs. This past Monday we engaged another city cop who happens to be a former marine. It is fantastic. The discussion lasts until Earl kicks us out - around 4am. I can't talk about much else, other than religion and politics, so it works well. There is a lot of ribbing, but we generally respect one another as long as they over look my expletives, head banging and apoplexy. Well done, Will.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
84. Great story.
I feel that it is really important for activists (like Will) to teach would be activists (me, other DU'ers) how to use facts and plain language to bring others onto our point of view.

The media just teaches everyone to yell and go for cheap shots, get the person we are interfacing pissed off in order to "win", which shuts off debate and undermines our intent.

Stories like this instruct us how to be effective.
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Czolgosz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
85. Am I the only one who thinks you are giving Bush too much credit here?
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 12:35 PM by Czolgosz
You say, "The FISA court has handed out more than 19,000 warrants since it was set up, and has only denied four. And they do it quick, because obviously if you go before the FISA court for a warrant, you’re probably pressed for time."

The fact that the FISA court is the quickest dispenser of warrants is true, but it's a red herring. FISA empowers the Attorney General to "authorize the emergency employment of electronic surveillance if a judge having jurisdiction under section 1803 of this title is informed by the Attorney General or his designee at the time of such authorization that the decision has been made to employ emergency electronic surveillance and if an application in accordance with this subchapter is made to that judge as soon as practicable, but not more than 72 hours after the Attorney General authorizes such surveillance."

When you say the Bush shouldn't worry about compliance with FISA because the FISA court is "quick" to issue warrants, you implicitly broadcast one of Bush's defense of his treason. Any question about how "quick" is "quick enough" is a debatable point, but the truth is Bush need not delay even for one microsecond under FISA because it expressly authorizes ex-post-facto authorization of the warrant.

You take a subtle misstep when you join any debate on the merits of Bush's argument that he needed to violate FISA because of the expedient need to protect our country. If I may quote a wise man, "There is a tactic in the art of debate and argument known as 'Rejecting the premise.'" We must reject the premise that delay (no matter how brief) in the issuance of the warrant is even a relevant issue because FISA's ex-post-facto approval provision expressly removes such a delay from a consideration in the process.

The real question is why would the Bush-Cheney-Rove continuum violate FISA when all they needed to comply was to seek after-the-fact approval within 72 hours of their warrantless spying on Americans? There are not two possible answers to this question as some posit; there is only one possible answer: Bush violated FISA's ex-post-facto approval provision because he knew in advance that his spying was illegal and would not be approved after the fact by the FISA court.
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BamaBecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
86. Sending this one to the Bush lovers
Thanks Will!

Bama
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
87. How old is TY? Why isn't he an Iraq?
Seriously good for you. Your convo went a lot better than mine would have.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. He was in the service
Served in Haiti under Clinton. Got shot. He did his service.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #90
113. My appolgoies than .
From the way you said it I pictured him as being a 19 year old muscle head. Were cool right?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #113
119. Totally
:toast:
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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
89. Good read;
Somewhat reminiscent of night time stories I used to read to my children. Though this one is real!
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
91. Is this a true story?
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 02:13 PM by Kire
I'm skeptical. it sounds like a poor attempt at a short story. Ty sounds like a real dumbass, and I'm saying that even though I know he came around to our side. I mean you make him sound like a real dumbass. What is his motivation for even asking that first question about the Patriot Act?

Sorry to be so rude if this is a real story, but please, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not recommending this thread until somebody does.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. I am correcting you
because it is true. It happened. Just the other day. Why he asked about the Patriot Act I don't know. He knows what I do for a living, I guess, and wanted an opinion.

Way to judge someone you've never met or even heard of. Ew.

I offered a ten grand bet to anyone who wants to come to Boston and meet the guy. If the story is true, you pay me. Ergo, you'll wind up paying me.

Take the bet.
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Kire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. my humblest apologies
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 03:59 PM by Kire
I didn't even see that it was you WillPitt, if I did, I would have understood more

I don't have that kind of money. Sorry.

Edit: I just recommended the story

Edit redux: I'm the dumbass.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. No worries
and thanks.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
93. Nomination number 60. What a great piece.
(Assuming, Will, that you're really sure that you live in Boston.)

:)
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
95. You and Ty are freedom-hating Rejectionists. Kicked and recommended!
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
97. "This is too damned far"...indeed it is, Ty.
Wonderful story Will. :hi: K & R
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
99. Link to final
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
100. Excellent story! Thank you for sharing! We should all follow in your path
and have more conversations like this. It's hard to remain rational with someone who supports Bush in spite of their own best interest, but when you look beyond the politics and see a person you can otherwise connect with, this type of conversation, backed by facts and truth, wins every time. Truth speaks volumes!
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
101. My favorite line:
"So what's the other reason you think he didn't get the FISA warrants?" he asked.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
103. Perfect use of the Socratic method of argument...
Good for you. And, good for Ty!
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
104. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Can I borrow your ammo there?
Brilliant, incisive, damning arguments. That's exactly how I'm going to approach my right-wing Dad this weekend. I haven't seen him since December 14, so I'm curious to see if he thinks Bush has gone too far, or if he thinks the NY Times is guilty of treason like that nimrod Cavuto substitute was saying. Thank you so much for your inspiring words.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #104
105. By all means
:toast:
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
107. You're a good story teller.
I wish I could recount my encounters like that. I wish I was able to be patient with people. One of my dads friends was boasting his support for Bill Frist and I admonished him about supporting a fellow who makes a medical analysis after viewing a video. He then stated that Michael Schiavo "murdered" her and he agreed with what Frist did. I exploded and ripped him to pieces ending with "don't forget to bring up the Schiavo affair before the next elections" :D I told him to have fun with his Christo-fascist zombies. Didn't see him for the rest of my visit - he was scared to death of me after that. He ought to me - I'm not putting up with any more morons who support these Christo-fascist zombies - oh, and he voted for Bush and brags about it ... well, not around me anymore :D

The word "Fascism" in your story hit me like a top of bricks by the way (it's different when the other side admits it)...
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
108. Wow- Now if you could do that about 50 million more times..
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
109. Great Story
Reminds me of that movie Born Yesterday not the remake but the original
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
110. Great story!! Small point: New Orleanians don't "drawl".
I think it's just a matter of choice of words, but their speech can't really be described as a drawl. It's more a softened version of what we've come to think of as a Brooklyn accent.

Wonder if Ty has relatives who are now homeless. Wonder if he knows anyone from down in da Parish (St. Bernard Parish). That place was filled with middle-class Bush supporters, but I bet many of them are looking at Bush differently now. I hope so.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #110
118. Ty drawls
Each word has its own life span. :)
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #118
120. LOL. Den he don't talk like no New Awleanian I evah knew!
Anyhoo, thanks for the story. It gives one hope.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
111. “have you heard about all this stuff ...
... with the National Security Agency spying on people here in America?”

“Little bit, yeah,” he said.

I hear this a lot when discusing politics with RWers. It seems they all support DUH-bya, but none of them are really informewd on the issues they say they support. They're just parroting some big-mouthed talk pundit.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
114. Wow! Can I Take You To A Bar Here Sometime?
Excellent job, talk about prepared!! Kudos Will!
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