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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 10:47 AM Original message |
The fantasyland of proportionality |
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electropop (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 10:56 AM Response to Original message |
1. At what point does the government become the terror organization? |
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Solly Mack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 04:57 AM Response to Reply #1 |
65. and there it is |
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jrd200x (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 08:23 PM Response to Reply #1 |
111. Never. By definition they're a military organization |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 10:57 AM Response to Original message |
2. Deleted message |
Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 10:58 AM Response to Original message |
3. blah blah blah |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:10 AM Response to Reply #3 |
6. If your a pacifist I get your position |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 12:15 PM Response to Reply #6 |
17. correct. I AM a pacifist. |
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Clarkie1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:03 PM Response to Reply #17 |
28. That makes things very easy. nt |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:26 PM Response to Reply #28 |
31. true, then I don't have to jump through twisted hoops trying to |
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Clarkie1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:42 PM Response to Reply #31 |
34. I respect your postition, even if I'm not in complete agreement. |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:44 PM Response to Reply #34 |
35. yes, though it would not have made me popular at the time |
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Clarkie1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:48 PM Response to Reply #35 |
38. If the allied forces followed your philosophy fully... |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:07 PM Response to Reply #38 |
42. what do you want me to say? |
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msmcghee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 06:04 PM Response to Reply #17 |
80. If blame is so irrelevant to you . . |
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Critters2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:45 PM Response to Reply #6 |
36. "He started it!" is no excuse on the playground |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:05 PM Response to Reply #36 |
41. I could have stated it differently |
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Critters2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 06:35 PM Response to Reply #41 |
51. So I keep hearing nt |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 06:39 PM Response to Reply #51 |
54. self-delete |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:38 PM Response to Reply #41 |
92. Indiscriminate bombing of civilians is not defense. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:36 PM Response to Reply #6 |
91. Deleted message |
jobycom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:07 AM Response to Original message |
4. Standard argument used by every tyranical war criminal |
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sweetheart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:18 AM Response to Reply #4 |
9. Yep, innocents need to die, gimme the power nt |
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malaise (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 10:06 AM Response to Reply #4 |
74. Bingo n/t |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:39 PM Response to Reply #4 |
94. I've said it before, I'll say it again: |
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Jim__ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:09 AM Response to Original message |
5. "How is it possible to thwart rocket launchers ... |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:16 AM Response to Reply #5 |
8. It was not the Israelis that embraced "asymmetrical warfare" |
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Jim__ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:25 AM Response to Reply #8 |
11. How many Israeli civilians did Hizbollah kill in the year before Israel |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:02 PM Response to Reply #11 |
40. As far as I know zero.... |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:41 PM Response to Reply #40 |
96. How many civilians did Hezbollah kill when they kidnapped two soldiers? |
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Donald Ian Rankin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 03:04 PM Response to Reply #8 |
49. Yes, but so are Hezbollah. |
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kiki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 04:41 AM Response to Reply #8 |
63. Does it really seem to you... |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 08:51 AM Response to Reply #63 |
66. Yes. |
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kiki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 01:45 PM Response to Reply #66 |
68. Then they must really, really suck at their job. n/t |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:43 PM Response to Reply #66 |
98. So when the Israeli government says they will attack Lebanese Christians.. |
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sendero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 04:14 PM Response to Reply #8 |
77. And Israel.. |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 05:48 PM Response to Reply #77 |
79. like I said in another post |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:46 PM Response to Reply #79 |
99. Um, actually, they did, unless you think kidnapping is war. |
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HiFructosePronSyrup (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:12 AM Response to Original message |
7. "the 'sight' of the bodes of dead children is truly unbearable." |
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ComerPerro (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:22 AM Response to Original message |
10. Oh, bullshit. According to the US and Israel, a terrorist |
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burythehatchet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:26 AM Response to Original message |
12. I hope I NEVER reach a place |
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Clarkie1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:01 PM Response to Reply #12 |
27. 7 Israelis died from Hezbollah rocket attacks today. |
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in_cog_ni_to (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:28 PM Response to Reply #27 |
44. Chirp*chirp*chirp* n/t |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:32 PM Response to Reply #44 |
46. Deleted message |
in_cog_ni_to (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:50 PM Response to Reply #46 |
47. Feel better now? n/t |
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burythehatchet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:32 PM Response to Reply #27 |
45. Without a doubt. |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:48 PM Response to Reply #27 |
101. Civilians or IDF? Yes if the first, no if the second. |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:26 AM Response to Original message |
13. Well that just boggles the mind |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 11:32 AM Response to Reply #13 |
14. That is not what he said |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 12:06 PM Response to Reply #14 |
15. So what he is saying is that a 10-1 civilian death count |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 12:16 PM Response to Reply #15 |
18. Beg to differ |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 12:28 PM Response to Reply #18 |
21. Let's see here |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 12:52 PM Response to Reply #21 |
22. Leaflets were dropped in S. Leb. |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:04 PM Response to Reply #22 |
29. Yes, leaflets were dropped |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:50 PM Response to Reply #14 |
102. "Civilians who harbor terrorism by serving as human shields" - lies. |
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Clarkie1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 12:58 PM Response to Reply #13 |
25. You are missing the point of the entire article. |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:10 PM Response to Reply #25 |
30. Like I've said earlier, |
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DistressedAmerican (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:51 PM Response to Reply #25 |
48. Special fucking forces from a helicopter. |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:59 PM Response to Reply #48 |
105. But that's too risky. Better to drop a bomb and lie about why later. |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 03:37 AM Response to Reply #25 |
60. There were no rockets until the bombing began |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 12:09 PM Response to Original message |
16. Deleted message |
Clarkie1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 12:55 PM Response to Reply #16 |
23. How do you propose Israel defend herself instead? |
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leftofthedial (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:28 PM Response to Reply #23 |
32. I'm becoming more and more convinced that the best solution |
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Clarkie1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:46 PM Response to Reply #32 |
37. In an country like Lebanon that does not have control of it's own |
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leftofthedial (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 06:02 PM Response to Reply #37 |
50. you mean as opposed to the madmen who are now bleeding |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 06:38 PM Response to Reply #50 |
52. "If they thought it was to their advantage, they'd do it in a heartbeat" |
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leftofthedial (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 01:27 AM Response to Reply #52 |
58. so would Hezbollah or Hamas |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 03:37 AM Response to Reply #23 |
61. Agree to the 1967 borders n/t |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 08:08 PM Response to Reply #23 |
107. Let's look at this logically. |
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AliceWonderland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 12:57 PM Response to Reply #16 |
24. Nuke Baghdad! Make the desert glow! |
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Clarkie1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:00 PM Response to Reply #24 |
26. That would be reckless bombing. |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 03:39 AM Response to Reply #26 |
62. The rockets are coming mainly from mountainous areas n/t |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 08:16 PM Response to Reply #26 |
108. Let's see, your opinion or HRW's informed one? |
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Clarkie1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 12:17 PM Response to Original message |
19. Excellent points for discussion. K & R. nt |
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kentuck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 12:18 PM Response to Original message |
20. First of all... |
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alcibiades_mystery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:30 PM Response to Original message |
33. Rummified |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 01:53 PM Response to Original message |
39. Another Metternich/Clausewitz addict unable to go cold turkey. |
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DistressedAmerican (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 02:10 PM Response to Original message |
43. THERE WERE NO ROCKETS FIRED FROM QANA THE DAY OF THE ATTACK. |
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Little Star (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 09:41 AM Response to Reply #43 |
72. Thank You! Now I'd like to hear someone explain... |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 08:18 PM Response to Reply #43 |
109. Thank you for separating truth from lies. |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 06:39 PM Response to Original message |
53. Question |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 07:37 PM Response to Reply #53 |
57. your first question is just faulty logic... |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 01:11 PM Response to Reply #57 |
67. I don't see what is logically wrong with the question |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 02:23 PM Response to Reply #67 |
69. In your first post you said: |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 09:23 AM Response to Reply #69 |
70. Oh I think it's pretty clear that the civilians get killed and then the |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 08:21 PM Response to Reply #70 |
110. It's not really cynical. It's historical. |
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breakaleg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 06:41 PM Response to Original message |
55. proportionality may not have enough support in terms of |
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Phoebe Loosinhouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:57 PM Response to Reply #55 |
104. proportionality is a ludicrous concept on its face because of |
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breakaleg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 08:23 PM Response to Reply #104 |
112. no, it's more like this.... |
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theanarch (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 10:45 PM Response to Reply #112 |
115. except in certain Red States with... |
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msmcghee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Aug-03-06 07:15 PM Response to Original message |
56. Glad to see there are still reasonable views here. n/t |
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Ms. Clio (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 02:02 AM Response to Original message |
59. fuck this noise n/t |
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kiki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Aug-04-06 04:42 AM Response to Original message |
64. Idiotic and vile. n/t |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 09:34 AM Response to Original message |
71. Nice and amoral. |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 10:00 AM Response to Original message |
73. "...the modern needs of combating terrorism." That is grotesque. |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 03:26 PM Response to Reply #73 |
75. Terrorism is an act, but a terrorist is a person |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 04:11 PM Response to Reply #75 |
76. Yes, the firebombing of Dresden & Tokyo, nuking Hiroshima & Nagasaki, |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 05:40 PM Response to Reply #76 |
78. Don't agree |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 06:29 PM Response to Reply #78 |
82. Because the Japanese were still in their homeland. |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:32 PM Response to Reply #82 |
87. yes but the japanese culture had a lot to do with their reaction |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:36 PM Response to Reply #87 |
89. Of course it did. My point was to emphasize the external differences in |
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Karenina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:36 PM Response to Reply #82 |
90. The RW Israeli regimes |
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Euphen (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 06:39 PM Response to Reply #78 |
83. I'd be interested to know what your definition of terrorism is. nt |
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malaise (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:42 PM Response to Reply #76 |
97. Touche |
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Euphen (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 06:43 PM Response to Reply #75 |
84. Terrorists are made, not born. You can't get rid of terrorism by killing |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:24 PM Response to Reply #84 |
85. I agree |
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Euphen (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:28 PM Response to Reply #85 |
86. So how does bombing civilians address those causes? nt |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:39 PM Response to Reply #86 |
93. Your question is kind of loaded |
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Euphen (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:47 PM Response to Reply #93 |
100. Israel's actions accomplish nothing in the short term, |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:40 PM Response to Reply #85 |
95. "but the causes of terrorism are complex." Not really. |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:53 PM Response to Reply #95 |
103. well the "Olson hypothesis" is pretty weak |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 08:05 PM Response to Reply #103 |
106. Oh for gawdsake! First you post a filthy amoral rationalization for mass |
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Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 10:08 PM Response to Reply #106 |
113. It's just not as simple as you propose |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 10:29 PM Response to Reply #113 |
114. I don't care how many ways you try to reframe your argument. |
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mogster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 06:28 PM Response to Original message |
81. Cheap rethoric |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-05-06 07:35 PM Response to Original message |
88. So, the USG would have been justified in bombing Oklahoma... |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Thu May 02nd 2024, 08:40 PM Response to Original message |
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