I need a Middle East education. I am ignorant and I admit it....BUT

[patdem]

I have been debating a fellow DU'r and have discovered what I really want...

Something about Israel written by a pro Israeli Muslem/Arab

Something about Arabs/Muslems written by a pro Muslem/Arab Jew/Israeli

Any links or book suggestions will be greatly appreciated...

I do not want to just react to the day to day atrocities of which there are many..but I want to actually know..since I will probably never UNDERSTAND...how people in that part of the world feel/think.

[physioex]

1. I sometimes read some of these web sites to get.....

The other point of view.....

http://www.palestinechronicle.org/ (This is probably the best in my opinion)

www.jihadunspun.com (Use to be good but I think they became a pay site)

You can get the radical christian view from listening to any
televangelical show. They talk about how the jews are chosen
rule the land of Israel and how there is no such thing as the
Palestenians...blah blah blah

[cali]

3. LOL

You don't believe that there are thoughtful people on both sides? Perhaps you should have listened to "Fresh Air" today.

[patdem]

6. What was it about, cali..I usually listen to NPR, but was busy this AM

thanks..do you have a link to the story?

[cali]

9. They interviewed two

young writers- well youngish; one was Israeli, one a Palestinian who grew up in refugee camps in Lebanon. They're friends and collaborators, wrote a book of short stories together entitled "Gaza Blues", and they both had truly thoughtful things to say. I'm sure you can link to the story by doing a search for "Fresh Air".

[patdem]

13. Thank you, cali..now THAT is what I am looking for...

a collaberation of people who LIVE it daily..I will find it and purchase it. Plan to take a three day train trip...each way and need lots to read! (ps I hate to fly..and trains are SO romantic)

[physioex]

10. Oh....I suppose there are....

But I have become to cynical, I am sorry to say.... :shrug:

[patdem]

5. first link does not work...not looking for radical..looking for reason...

thanks...Will check out the second link. It works do not know if it s pay or not.

[physioex]

7. Sorry.....

I fixed it.... :)

[Asgaya Dihi]

2. Not exactly what you asked for, but maybe useful

Two good links for info about what the wall has done to Palestine and on how American media differs from the rest of the world in how we cover it follow. First is a pretty good google video, next a Truthdig article. Both offer info you won't find in the mainstream press and are fairly current. I thought them worthwhile.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696
http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/20060725_israels_wall/

[AlamoDemoc]

4. My best advice to you is to start here first...

click this link

http://brasscheck.com/videos/middleeast/me1.html

[KYDEM]

23. I agree

This is a must see video. Explains so much.

[RoyGBiv]

8. A bit of advice ...

If you read something written by pro-one side and then something by pro-the-other-side, what you get in the end is lies and exaggerations from boths sides culminating in a lot of nothing, sort of the MSM approach to "fair and balanced."

I don't have a recommendation off-hand. The Middle East is not my area of expertise, but I would suggest browsing the history section and looking for something written by a professional historian. Then research the historians you find, concentrating on peer reviews. You'll end up with a better education that way.

[patdem]

11. Very good advise.but I could spend a fortune before I could tell the

difference between an honest historian and one with an agenda. To tell you the truth, I do not have a fortune, no less one to spend on books.

[RoyGBiv]

16. Libraries ...

That's what they're there for.

Not trying to be flippant, but I know libraries are overlooked a lot. If there's a college anywhere near you, I suspect you can find a willing librarian who will assist you.

[patdem]

24. You are correct...libraries...of course my problem is letting go of books

I turned to my mom once..and told her..I have a confession to make..I have kept it to myself for too many years and I want to tell you here and now...I am a bibliophile...the look in her face was priceless...and I laughed..I set her up....I know...not a word you hear much except the ...phile part...then she laughed too.

[RoyGBiv]

30. I understand completely ...

I have the same problem.

To paraphrase, when I get paid, I buy books. With whatever is left, I pay bills and buy food.

But, I have found libraries, especially university libraries, usefull for helping me decide what books are good to buy. As a professor of mine once said, when you buy books, make sure you buy good books. I've taken that somewhat trite advice to heart.

[physioex]

14. Everyone is going to have a bias.....

A "suicide bomber" to one side is a martyr to another. There is simply no way to get around this. This is where a person must use CRITICAL THINKING to draw a conclusion, and develop abstract reasoning skills. There are no right or wrong answers. And this is probably the most important lesson I learnt in college.

[RoyGBiv]

22. Absolutely true ...

I'm not suggesting bias can be avoided entirely.

However, a difference does exist between those who are openly "pro" or "anti" something and those who make judgment calls that come through via their focus. I can live with and generally work around the latter. The former have no place in an attempt to arrive at some level of objective truth, not that such a thing actually exists.

To take this out of context in order to avoid some of the passion, there are writers and historians who study the Civil War, and they all, every last one of them, hold a bias of some sort. But there are other classes of writers about the Civil War who are blatantly "pro" or "anti" something-or-other, and you will learn little to nothing from them without some sort of guidance from a less passionate researcher. I'll offer the examples of Fitzhugh Lee and Alan Nolan as biographers of Robert E. Lee. The former is a nephew who selectively quoted documents, leaving out parts that painted his uncle in a bad light. The latter is basically a lawyer who got the history bug and decided he wanted to paint Lee as one of the worst human beings who ever existed, again selectively quoting documents and other research in order to paint the picture he wanted.

More sober biographies exist.

[physioex]

26. I don't disagree with what you are saying.....

I just sometimes wonder why some people think the way they do, and to find those answers I do take time to pay attention to some of the more radical elements.

[RoyGBiv]

29. Let me rephrase ...

When you're doing serious research of a subject, yes, you definitely have to take the radical elements into account. When researching a particularly controversial subject I've studied for years, I in fact tend to focus on those radical elements because the lesson, the actual point, is wound up in the radicalism.

I offered the advice I did based on the manner in which the original inquiry was phrased, which, by my reading, implies a desire to learn some objectivity starting from a position of ignorance. You *can* get there by studying the more radical positions, but it's an incredibly involved task. With one of the subjects I've studied in mind, if I had started with the radical positions, I would have come way either with a hardened opinion one way or the other, or I would have been utterly confused. I started with a mostly dispassionate study and moved forward from there into the radical positions. By the time I got there, I had some bearings that allowed me to see through the rhetoric with a bit more clarity.

[physioex]

31. Absolutely....

And if more people did this we wouldn't have as many nut cases as we do...

[physioex]

17. Hello Roy....

I still remember you. How are things going?

[RoyGBiv]

27. Heyhowsitgoin ...

I'm doing well. How 'bout yourself?

Thanks for asking. :toast:

[physioex]

28. Fine Thanks......

:hi:

[The Magistrate]

12. An Evocative Narrative Of The Background, Ma'am

Can be had in Mr. Tom Segev's "One Palestine, Complete", a history of the Mandate period written by a skilled journalist. As withy many journalist's hostories, it is a little hazy in dates and such, but he does make the characters and situations come alive.

[patdem]

18. Thank you, sir. Coming from you I will surely look it up and if I find

it purchase it for my trip. What an opportunity I get. An all expense paid trip and not just the OPPORTUNITY to read..but a DEMAND to read as it will be my only diversion from boredom.

[MissB]

15. I generally recommend

Thomas Friedman's From Beirut to Jerusalem. Yeah, that Thomas Friedman.

It isn't written exactly from an Israeli perspective. I thought he did a decent job of looking at the history from a reasonably unbiased perspective. It was written in the 90's with an updated chapter in '95.

From Amazon.com: There have been any number of books that have worked hard at interpreting the melange called the Middle East. This one, however, makes a difference because it's so well written and captures the psychological mannerisms of the people of Lebanon and Israel--the first step to understanding some of the mysterious "why" that seems to elude the American public and government. Friedman's credentials are impressive: he spent six years of journalistic service for the New York Times in Beirut and Jerusalem, has won two Pulitzer prizes, and is now the Times 's chief diplomatic correspondent. His writing is vastly descriptive, incredibly illuminating, very educational, and marvelously persuasive. His advice to U.S. diplomats is that since "Middle East diplomacy is a contact sport," they must bargain as grocers, or, in other words, realize that everything has a price and the sale can always be made with enough hard work. This title is highly recommended for all libraries.

[patdem]

19. missb, I understand, except for Iraq, Thomas Friedman has been a great

liberal. Thanks sounds like a keeper.

[physioex]

20. Thomas Friedman.....

Says stupid things quite often. I think he is kinda a pseudo-intellectual. To be fair, I have not read the book you are reccomending.

[oberliner]

21. if you can afford it

I would recommend going over there yourself.

Spend some time in Jerusalem, East and West. Talk to Israelis and Palestinians.

To me, that's the best education there is.

Of course there are a lot of Israelis and Palestinians in the US as well.

[physioex]

25. That is definetely a great idea....

I wish more people had a chance to see both sides of the issue. Then we could really bring about change.

The solution to this problem may be too late in this generation.
The true solution to this conflict may very well be getting children on both sides to interact with one another at the school age level. Like an exchange program of sorts. But alas I know this won't happen...