Hezbollah only targeting civilians..............

[springhill]

Why are there so many of these posts? Can someone please explain to me why more military than civilians in Israel have been killed and what the chances are of that happening if they are only targeting the civilian population?

<snip>

The third myth is that, while Israel is trying to fight a clean war by targeting only terrorists, Hezbollah prefers to bring death and destruction on innocents by firing rockets at Israeli civilians.

It is amazing that this myth even needs exploding, but after the efforts of Horowitz and Co. it most certainly does. As the civilian death toll in Lebanon has skyrocketed, international criticism of Israel has remained at the mealy-mouthed level of diplomatic requests for “restraint” and “proportionate responses."

One need only cast a quick eye over the casualty figures from this conflict to see that if Israel is targeting only Hezbollah fighters it has been making disastrous miscalculations. So far some 400 Lebanese civilians are reported dead -- unfortunately for Horowitz’s story at least a third of them children. From the images coming out of Lebanon’s hospitals, many more children have survived but with terrible burns or disabling injuries.

<snip>

Conversely, the breakdown of the smaller number of deaths of Israelis at the hands of Hezbollah -- 42 at the time of writing -- show that more soldiers have been killed than civilians.

In fact, although no one is making the point, Hezbollah’s rockets have been targeted overwhelming at strategic locations: the northern economic hub of Haifa, its satellite towns and the array of military sites across the Galilee.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0725-35.htm

[Fridays Child]

1. C'mon, now. Don't let facts get in the way of a...

...perfectly good piece of propaganda.

[killbotfactory]

2. Hezbollah has killed more soldiers than civilians

the IDF has killed more civilians than Hezbollah.

But we all know who the terroists are.

[ShockediSay]

3. There's the IDF and the IPF

the latter referring to the Israeli Propaganda Force, which, if you follow the proceedings of the World Zionist Organization, is world wide, well organized, and concentrated in the US

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22world+zionist%22&btnG=Google+Search

[mediaman007]

13. Judging by the posts, there's plenty of IDF right here!

Ever since I read about their purpose, I take every pro-Israel post with a grain of salt.

[eviltwin2525]

4. it makes perfect sense

if you understand that Hezbollah "fighters," since they are not members of any official military, are all counted as "civilians." Meanwhile, almost all Israeli citizens are in some way reservists. Is Israel hitting an apalling number of civilians? You bet. Should they stop that? Definitely, immediately. Are they purposefully TARGETTING civilians? Get a grip!

[David__77]

5. Of course Israel is deliberately targeting civilians.

Israel's Justice Minister proclaimed that to kill every person in southern Lebanon is justified, because "(a)ll those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5219360.stm

[springhill]

6. I don't think by any stretch of the imagination.........

that they are counting Hezbollah as "civilian deaths". What are you talking about and where did you get that? Also, this thing about every Israeli being a reservist. Where are the facts on that one also?

[Tesha]

15. It makes a cool propaganda argument, though, doesn't it?

Some folks will actually swallow it!

Tesha

[Recursion]

28. It's hardly a "stretch" of the imagination

I can guarantee that every Hezbollah militant who gets killed is being counted as a "civilian" casualty, since they are in fact civilians. Armed civilians, but still civilians.

And yes, military service in Israel is as close to universal as you can realistically get. According to the CIA, Military service is cumpulsory for Jewish Israelis at the age of 17, and voluntary for other religious/ethnic groups. Men and women are both subject to the draft, though men serve for longer.

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/is.html

[Magical]

7. You're all targets, Israel tells Lebanese in South

You may want to read this....if this doesn't show prior intent, I don't know what would.


Everyone remaining in southern Lebanon will be regarded as a terrorist, Israel's justice minister said yesterday as the military prepared to employ "huge firepower" from the air in its campaign to crush Hizbollah.

Haim Ramon issued the warning as the Israeli government decided against expanding ground operations after the death of nine soldiers in fighting on Wednesday.

"What we should do in southern Lebanon is employ huge firepower before a ground force goes in," Mr Ramon said at a security cabinet meeting headed by Ehud Olmert, the prime minister. "Everyone in southern Lebanon is a terrorist and is connected to Hizbollah. Our great advantage vis-a-vis Hizbollah is our firepower, not in face-to-face combat."

Mr Olmert promised that the army would "continue toward the established goals".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/20...

[TahitiNut]

11. Funny how the facts are so often ignored ...

... in "faith-based" politics, huh? :eyes:

[springhill]

9. Oh you mean like the 30 or so kids.........

that were killed today? Very interesting.

[Subdivisions]

17. Those children's parents...

should have gotten them out of there.

I saw a Lebanese woman from Qana on CNN earlier admitting that she supports Hezbollah. "I admit it," she said.

Whether you think it was right for Hezbollah to attack Israel or not, they are the enemy from Israel's point of view.

I mourn the loss of lives in Qana, especially the children. But I just believe that the people that remain in Qana, and southern Lebanon, are Hezbollah or the family of Hezbollah militiamen. If they have chosen to stay in support of Hezbollah, they have made themselves legitimate targets.

BTW, where is the outrage at Hezbollah's rockets killing innocent Israeli civilians and children. Do they not count too?

[springhill]

19. Your statement is just unbelievable.......

really it is. There have been many many posts condemning the innocent lives taken on both sides. What is just really mind boggling to me is the support from you and other Israeli supporters that it is OKAY to kill civilians, but apparently only if they are Lebanese. Hezbollah, bad, evil for killing civilians, Israel, good and justified for killing civilians. It just defies logic and common sense, not to mention decency.

[Subdivisions]

23. First of all...

I never said it was OKAY to kill civilians.

I didn't mean to leave the impression that it is. It is not. Not for either side. Also, I am not a supporter of Israel, as such.

What I was trying to say is this: Israel warned that it will bomb and advised everybody to get out. If you are the parent of child, it is YOUR responsibility to get them out. If you don't, who is at fault? Is it Israel for bombing them or is it Hezbollah's for taking two Israeli soldiers and killing eight others on Israeli soil in the first place - the very action that started this whole mess?

The same goes for Israeli civilians and their children when they know rockets are falling. Get out.

I also know this: If I'm told to leave or get shelled, I'm gathering up my kids and getting the hell out of there. Period. Even if I have to line them up and march them, and myself, out - on foot. So...why were they still there in that building and why was a rocket launcher placed so close to them?

Also, I did say this: I mourn the loss of lives in Qana, especially the children. I hate war and collateral damage, especially the human kind, sicken me. I do feel very badly for losses on both sides.

Perhaps before you start flaming me, you should read this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1771916&mesg_id=1771916

[jayfish]

25. Yeah, The Gov Warned Everyone To Evacuate New Orleans Too.

Funny thing though, lots of people couldn't get out and died and we're the wealthiest country on the planet. Guess it was their own fault too, huh?

Jay

[Subdivisions]

27. Ok, so...

it boils down to those who simply COULD NOT get out.

As I said: Dead civilians is bad no matter what "side" they're on.

[jayfish]

30. We Agree On That. -NT-

Jay

[CJCRANE]

34. Remember Katrina...

citizens of an American city too poor or weak or ill or old to leave...?

Lebanon is a developing country so there are going to be proportionately even more poor people etc without transport or money to pay for it..

Not to mention that the IDF blew up many of the gas stations, roads, bridges etc.

[pelsar]

8. Hizballa targets druze and christians and jews....

but apologises when they kill arabs.....sounds pretty racist to me:


residents (druze village of Mari) who have recently escaped from Mari tell of a dramatic, desperate
situation in the village. The Druse residents, who have no affinity at
all for Hizbullah, resisted Hizbullah's attempts to enter the village.
The IAF apparently and unwittingly assisted in their resistance by
bombing the roads leading into the village, cutting off the militia's
ability to enter the town, at least temporarily. Hizbullah responded by
cutting off the town's electricity and water supply, essentially laying
seige to a town on its own side of the border

http://blissstreetjournal.blogspot.com/2006/07/siege-of-mari.html


But for some of the Christians who had made it out in this convoy,
it was not just privations they wanted to talk about, but their ordeal
at the hands of Hezbollah
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/28/world/middleeast/28refugees.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[Erika]

10. Whose innocents have most suffered?

You need to ask that question, and think about genocide.

Hezbollah is not killing their own.

Also remember, U.S. taxpayers are paying for the Israeli military.

[pelsar]

12. Hezbollah is not killing their own....just everyone else

no they're killing christian arabs, jews and druze and trying to kill as many as possible by indiscriminate missles....and thats ok with you?

(check the lebanese blogs for more info on hizballas methods for those who disagree....)

[springhill]

16. Did you even read the original post?

That more military have been killed than civilians? But not in Lebanon, in Israel. Don't let the facts get in the way of what you would like to believe. Sheesh!

[xchrom]

14. all modern wars are conducted against civilians.

ok -- this is ridiculous -- not since we all stopped lining up and shooting each other down in rows have we conducted war against military personel only{and not even then}.

[WinkyDink]

18. "THIS is the picture that damns Hezbollah."

"It is one of several, smuggled from behind Lebanon's battle lines, showing that Hezbollah is waging war amid suburbia.
The images, obtained exclusively by the Sunday Herald Sun, show Hezbollah using high-density residential areas as launch pads for rockets and heavy-calibre weapons."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html

[breakaleg]

20. I've seen that picture and I don't see the "damning" that you speak of.

[WinkyDink]

22. I'm quoting the article ( would I quote myself?).

Ask its author why that opinion.
I'm guessing it's the apartment building in the background.

[Subdivisions]

24. You mean to say that...

you can't see what's "damning" about this image?

[TahitiNut]

38. If anything, it 'damns' IDF

It's an aged anti-aircraft gun - a purely defensive weapon, mounted on the bed of a 2.5-ton(?) truck. To the degree it's deployed to a residential area, it condemns the need to defend a residential (i.e. CIVILIAN) area from IDF air attacks. It's simple: no attack airplanes = no need for an anti-aircraft gun.

I think a person would have to be so ill-informed regarding weapons and the military that their opinion regarding anything in a war was worthless, to see that photo and conclude it demonstrated a threat of any kind.

[Mr_Spock]

32. lol

I'm a moron, you're a moron, wouldn't you like to be a moron too,

be a moron, be, be a moron.

[npincus]

21. Hezbollah wearing civilian garb and firing rockets from civilian

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html

areas- being discussed on AAR now. Hezbollah wants to sacrifice Lebanese to inflame the Arab world against Israel- and it's working.

I'd like to see more anger here at Hezzbollah's tactics. Anger at Isreal for Lebanese civilian deaths is justified. Where's the anger at Hezzbollah?

Pics from article: Hezbollah fighting in suburbia-- not donning their usual black garb-- they blend right into the civilian polulation, don't they?

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5200791,00.jpg

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5200790,00.jpg

THIS is the picture that damns Hezbollah. It is one of several, smuggled from behind Lebanon's battle lines, showing that Hezbollah is waging war amid suburbia.

The images, obtained exclusively by the Sunday Herald Sun, show Hezbollah using high-density residential areas as launch pads for rockets and heavy-calibre weapons.

Dressed in civilian clothing so they can quickly disappear, the militants carrying automatic assault rifles and ride in on trucks mounted with cannon.

The photographs, from the Christian area of Wadi Chahrour in the east of Beirut, were taken by a visiting journalist and smuggled out by a friend.

[jayfish]

26. Count On the Media To Think Everyone Is As Stupid As They Are.

That's an antiquated AAA gun. It's not a rocket launcher. About the only damage that thing would do is to get its' crew killed by a Maverick.

Jay

[Mr_Spock]

31. Do people really think we are that insanely stupid?

:eyes:

[Recursion]

33. That's an AA cannon

Anti-aircraft. It's a defensive weapon. You want them around your residential neighborhood to discourage the enemy from bombing that neighborhood. Admittedly, you don't want them *right next to* the neighborhood since the guns themselves are targets, but that's not a picture of an offensive weapon.

In the interest of disclosure, I do think that Hezbollah is hiding weapons and fighters among civilians and hypocritcally acting shocked, *shocked*, when Israel strikes the places that they are firing from. But these pictures don't show that.

[Mr_Spock]

35. Exactly.

If someone is to show evidence of something, show REAL evidence - not a bullshit photo of a friggin gun with a building in the background with no perspective and no idea of what is in that building. Ridiculous propaganda.

[TahitiNut]

37. Please note that it's mounted in the bed of a deuce-and-a-half truck.

It's absolutely appalling to see the "news" so completely and overtly propagandized - without any semblance of objectivity.

[malaise]

29. Then they have way worse aim

than Israel. 20 -1.

[Recursion]

36. Well, war isn't about parity

If a nation's goal in war is to kill as many of the enemy as the enemy kills of them, you'll have a war that never ends.

There is a philosophy of warfare that says that war should be as brutal as possible so that it ends as soon as possible; even if more people die in the short term, fewer die in the long term. I don't go as far as some people do with that, but I think there is some basic sense to that idea. The thing is, you need to hit the *right* targets. Just haphazardly bombing civilians doesn't break their will; you have to target and destroy the infrastructure that makes it possible for the enemy to fight. You also kill fewer people that way, since by and large people don't live in power plants, bridges, or railyards.