Salt Lake Tribune Applaudes Gore's Speech and calls for Special...

[WI_DEM]

I'm sorry this probably should be in the editorial section, but I want as many people to see it as possible:

"History has a funny way of tapping someone on the shoulder. For Al Gore, that moment came on Monday. In a passionate, yes passionate speech, the former vice president indicted George W. Bush for arrogating to himself powers that the Consititution does not confer on him or any other president. Gore accused teh president of eavesdropping on Americans without warrants in violation of the Fourth Amendment and the Foreigh Intelligence and Surveillance Act, of torturing prisoners in violation fo the Geneva Conventions, of imprisoning Americans as enemy combatants without a charge..."

"We believe that Gore is right, both in his analysis and in his proposed remedies. We second his call for a special counsel to investigate his claim--an absurd claim, in our view--that congress' authorization of the use of military force in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 gave the president inherent power to violate the Bill of Rights and the FISA statue..."

"But judge for yourself. Look up his speech at http://www.acsblog.org and read it. We do not believe he exaggerates."

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_3412263

[sasha031]

1. wow conservative Utah

this is great

[fudge stripe cookays]

2. In Salt Lake?

They really are waking up out there! This is tremendous!

I'm visiting the Mother Ship in a few weeks (FHL library), and have been wondering how I was going to feel about it. Not so bad, it turns out.

[helderheid]

3. that's my paper! Would have been more impressive had it come from

the Deseret News. Maybe it will!

[katsy]

4. Salt Lake Utah?

UTAH?

Faint - - - - - -> THUD!

[Frustratedlady]

5. Super - Let The Show Begin!

[flordehinojos]

6. bravo for salt lake tribune.

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. We should start keeping a list

The Boston Globe had a good one too today.

[helderheid]

8. Let's have a DU conference in Salt Lake City.

:evilgrin:

[helderheid]

24. I'm actually serious about that!

[EFerrari]

9. Thank you, Salt Lake City!

:applause::applause::applause:

[WI_DEM]

10. I think "history is tapping" Gore on the shoulder to run in '08

[corkhead]

11. Utah? it must be raining frogs.... eom

[helderheid]

12. Salt Lake is a very progressive city. It's the rest of Utah that is so red

I mean Salt Lake's Mayor is Rocky Anderson!!

http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_234140008.html

Above is the story about him speaking at the anti-Bush rally. That was a great rally - 3000 attended - it's worth clicking the link and playing the video!

[stevedeshazer]

18. Salt Lake City gets a bum rap

It's not the caricature so many make it out to be.

The folks who talk down Utah and SLC should go there sometime. I did.

[helderheid]

19. Why thank you! For anyone surfing for progressives in Utah, here's a nice

list:

http://udpc.org/links.htm

Local Political and State

Register to Vote

Utah State Party Page

Utah Democratic Progressive Caucus Discussion Forum

Utah Policy

Young Democrats of Utah

Latter-Day Saint Democrats

Democratic Underground - Utah Forum

Crossroads Urban Center

Southern Utah Democrats

Democrats of Southern Utah

Cache Valley Democrats

Salt Lake County Democrats

Iron County Democrats NEW!

Davis County Democratic Party

Progressive Utah at LiveJournal

NEW! UDPC Videos

Democratic Underground - Utah Forum

Utah Democrats

People for Peace and Justice Utah

The Wasatch Coalition for Peace and Justice

HEAL Utah

Utah Health Alliance

Downwinders

Don't Amend Alliance

Democracy for Utah

Utah Progressive Network

Utah Jobs With Justice

Utahns for a Just Peace in the Holy Land

Equality Utah

Utahns for Clean Water, Clean Air and Quality Growth

Click here to see how Howard Dean and Bev Harris hacked into a Diebold machine in under 2 minutes!

Online Absentee Ballot Application

Intersection Project

[helderheid]

23. OH and I failed to mention Salt Lake County Mayor is Dean's 1st cousin

Peter Corroon.

[Uncle Joe]

13. Outstanding column!

Kicked and nominated!

:kick:

[leftofthedial]

14. from the heart of king george's last bastion?

wow

[txindy]

15. Don't apologize. I would've missed this entirely without your post

Thank you for sharing the uplifting news! :toast:

Junior and the Cabal are toast when editorials like this are printed in the heart of their base.

[sundancekid]

16. the SLT newspaper has a very interesting history::we'll take the "tapping"

wherever we can ... take a bow, Mr. Gore, and keep looking at that shoulder for 2008!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Salt_Lake_Tribune

[helderheid]

17. thanks for this link! I was aware of some of the story but not all of it!

[Pacifist Patriot]

20. Another mouth hanging open. Utah?!?

[democrank]

21. Drip, drip, drip.

Little by little, the light is beginning to shine on George W. Bush.

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. Is that Salt - pass a wife- Lake, Utah?

Holy Shitah.

[Miss Chybil]

25. Your remarks are bigoted. They don't do that anymore.

Not for a couple hundred years. Funny how people are so quick to jump on Mormons for something they haven't practiced since Lincoln, (barring splinter groups not affiliated with the official LDS church), yet nobody seems to have a problem with plural marriage in other cultures - say in Muslim cultures - or in early Christian and Jewish cultures - or probably many cultures. Why is that?

Now, if you want to bitch about Mormons because the majority of them voted for Bush, or, you want to bitch about other factions of their political ideology, I'm with you there. They're far too "right" for me, but name calling based on out-dated, stereotypical information does nothing to advance your opinions. Not in my book, anyway.

[helderheid]

26. well, you're half right. The LDS church no longer practices that but the

FLDS church still does... and though there aren't as many of them here as LDS, they are still here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter_Day_Saints

[Miss Chybil]

28. I'm not half right.

The FLDS church has nothing to do with the LDS church. They refused to follow the directives of the LDS church and were excommunicated. They then formed their own church. To associate the actions of the two churches is like saying Catholics are responsible for the way Lutherans behave.

[helderheid]

29. see post 27 - and this one while you're at it.

And in fairness to the pass the wife remark, FLDS are in Utah and he/she made no mention of Mormons in his/her post.

Edited to add I wouldn't make fun of the FLDS either though.

[The Backlash Cometh]

33. I'll give you a half victory.

I know there's a group in Utah that very much is in the news, and it doesn't look like anybody plans to do anything about their wayward ways. BUT, I don't know for sure they operate in Salt Lake City.

[helderheid]

35. They are mostly in Southern Utah on the Arizona border but there

are groups of them all over Utah. I sometimes see them at my local Costco. Ironic they "buy blue".

[helderheid]

27. Oh foo - you mentioned the FLDS - I'm sorry!! My bad!!

[The Backlash Cometh]

31. You're kidding, right?

You don't know that polygamy is creating one of the biggest welfare groups in the U.S.? And that the elder in the group can unmarry you and reassign your wife to someone else? And that they're kicking out the young men out of their group, abandoning them, if they don't adhere to the old ways?

Read this just this last year. That's pretty recent in my book.

[helderheid]

32. she assumed you were talking about modern day LDS even though you

made no mention of that particular religion.

[The Backlash Cometh]

34. Thanks for clearing it up, helderheid.

[Miss Chybil]

38. Give me a break.

I didn't assume anything. Mentioning wife-swapping and Salt Lake City in one sentence doesn't leave much room for assumptions about the intentions of the person who said it. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, commonly known as Mormons, do not practice polygamy. They renounced the practice in 1890.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural_marriage

"Abandoning the practice
As The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints settled in the Utah Territory, they began to participate in national politics. The general opinion of the rest of the United States was that the practice of plural marriage was offensive. On July 8, 1862, President Abraham Lincoln signed the Morrill Anti-Bigamy Law which forbids the practice in US territories. President Lincoln told the church that he had no intentions of enforcing it if they would not interfere with him, and so the matter was laid to rest for a time. After the Civil War, immigrants to Utah who were not members of the church began contesting for political power. They were frustrated by the consolidation of the members. Forming the Liberal Party, they began pushing for political changes and to weaken the church's advantage in that state. In September of 1871, President Brigham Young was indicted for adultery due to his plural marriages. On January 6, 1879, the Supreme Court upheld the Morrill Act in Reynolds v. United States. The decision was not well-received by the members and leadership of the church.

--snip--

The church had clearly lost control of the territory government, and the members and leaders of the church were being actively pursued as fugitives. Without being able to appear publicly, the leadership was left to navigate underground. President Wilford Woodruff and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles issued a manifesto in 1890 banning the practice of plural marriage. Although it is still considered correct doctrine, it is no longer sanctioned by the church. This set in motion the restitution of all the rights of the members of the church and the eventual statehood of Utah in 1896.

--snip--

The last person to participate in plural marriage with the sanction of the church passed away in 1974. Since the second manifesto, the church has never sanctioned plural marriages. Those who are caught trying to perform such are excommunicated without question. Today, the church does not teach about plural marriage except to say that it is banned and will be punished with excommunication.

Fundamentalist beginnings

Relinquishment of plural marriage by church members was not universal, however; some did not accept as divinely inspired the pronouncements truncating polygyny, and were either expelled from the church or left on their own. Over time, many such individuals formed small, isolated, and close-knit communities in areas of the Rocky Mountains. These groups continue to practice 'the principle' despite the ostensible opposition of the government and LDS church leaders, and consider the practice to be a requirement for entry into the highest heaven, which they call the "third degree" of the Celestial Kingdom. These people are commonly called 'Mormon fundamentalists', and may either practice as individuals, as families, or as part of organized denominations.

In consequence of the tendency of outsiders to confuse the LDS church with the breakaway groups, the church today seeks vigorously to disassociate itself from the practice of plural marriage, emphasizing that it still excommunicates any polygamist members. Moreover, the church has attempted to convince journalists not to refer to the various polygamist sects as "Mormons" or "Mormon fundamentalists". The press, however, has generally not complied, because modern polygamists themselves still embrace the term Mormon, viewing themselves as the rightful stewards of the LDS tradition."

Again, I am not here to defend the Mormon religion. I do not practice any form of Christianity. What bothers me is when supposedly liberal minded people, who supposedly oppose bigotry in all its forms, practice bigotry by making stereotypical remarks. All people are bigoted, myself included, when they don't have the information they need about a group of "other" people that will keep them from making assumptions about that "other" group based on stereotypes.

[Miss Chybil]

37. No. I'm not kidding.

You need to further your research and learn who you are talking about.

[Justice Is Comin]

30. I thought I smelled a little Democrat

cookin' when I was driving through there. Ever had a migraine Bush?

:thumbsup: that's a recommend.

[Nothing Without Hope]

36. See also this entire thread on Gore's speech and the reaction and then

Gore's reaction, and then the reaction to Gore's reaction....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x161222
thread title (1-17-06 GD): ***COMPILATION*** of links & DU threads on the historic 1/16 GORE SPEECH

I'll cross-post this current thread there too. Trying to keep the story together.