Should Hezbollah be disarmed?

[ButterflyBlood]

And this question is just what it says not "Do you support Israel's actions?", "Is it OK for Israel to kill civilians?" or anything else of the sort, of which my answers to is "no".

I still can't believe there are people here who don't think things would be much better off with Hezbollah disarming like every other group from the Lebanese Civil War.

[Teaser]

1. Where's the "don't care" option?

cause I really don't.

[ThomCat]

2. Where is the "When Israel is disarmed too" option?

[QuestionAll...]

3. yep, wondered that too.

bad poll, bad.

shud Hizbollah be disarmed?
shud Israel be disarmed?
shud both be disarmed?

so far the only disarming has been of dead limbless children.

[CuteNFuzzy]

72. exactly

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

4. What makes you think...

...that a disarmed Israel wouldn't simply be driven out of existence by its pantheon of mortal enemies? Or do you see that as a positive outcome?

[jonnyblitz]

6. I know one thing for sure, It 's certainly OBVIOUS why they have

mortal enemies.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

46. Mhmm...

[Marie26]

50. Cute kitty!

:) Nasrallah, not so cute.

[ThomCat]

7. Israel has the largest army, the most funding, the strongest

economy, and has been in absolutely no danger at all of being driven anywhere for decades.

Don't even think about accusing anyone here of of wanting to see Israel disappear, or of being antisemetic. Those are cheap shots for people who only know one side and don't care to see the other.

I'm really not in the mood for arguing with simple minds today.

[ButterflyBlood]

14. They have the strongest army BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T DISARMED

No army, and why what happened in 1948, 1967 and 1973 wouldn't happen again? This time with Israel being destroyed.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

43. Umm...

Israel has the largest army,

The post I was responding to suggested that Israel should disarm. That being the case, they would no longer have the "largest army," or any army, for that matter.



I'm really not in the mood for arguing with simple minds today.

Talk about your cheap shots.

[MadHound]

23. What makes you think that a disarmed Hezbollah and Lebanon

Wouldn't be destroyed all that much quicker by Israel?

Trust friend, it's gotta start somewhere.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

45. Israel has no interest in destroying Lebanon.

Do you think that if Israel really wanted to destroy Lebanon, that this is the best they can do? My take is that Israel wants to destroy Hezbollah, and doesn't give a hoot how much of Lebanon happens to be destroyed in the process, but that's a far cry from wiping Lebanon off the map. Hell, Lebanon has no interest in destroying Israel. Hezbollah and Israel have an interest in destroying each other. The only difference is that Hezbollah is a terrorist group and Israel is a country. I will be more than happy if the day ever comes when Olmert is hauled to the Hague for his actions during the past couple of weeks, but there's a difference between a war crime and all-out genocide, or the destruction of a country.

[MadHound]

54. Well, judging from Israel's current actions

And their past actions in the Gaza Strip and elsewhere, along with the rhetoric both now and in the past, I wouldn't be so certain of that. This isn't the first time that Israel has gone over the top with regards to their neighbors.

[MrPrax]

9. Yeah...

I have no doubt that Israel would love all the other countries in the ME to be disarmed. They ALL want Israel destroyed, of course...so Hez is no different than Saudi Arabia in this narrative.

In fact this is 'wet dream' of any despot -- an disarmed populace.

[sandnsea]

10. Israel is a country

Nobody is asking whether Lebanon or Jordan or even Syria should be disarmed. Hizbollah is not a country for chrissake. It isn't anywhere near the same thing. I can't believe 35% of DU thinks it's a-ok to support terrorists and yes this is supporting terrorists. This is the definition of the loony left.

[Sparkly]

13. Thank you.

I was just about to make that point.

[LSK]

18. then why isnt it acting like one

And going to through the UN to deal with its problems?

[sandnsea]

20. It has for 60 fucking years

It pulled out of southern Lebanon in 2000 as part of going to the UN. The attacks from Hizbollah were not taken seriously, they were not dealt with. Just like this poll shows, some people really don't give a shit about what terrorists do to Israel.

[Marie26]

40. The UN passed

a resolution calling for Hizbollah to be disarmed. So Israel did bring its concerns to the UN, it's just that nothing was done.

[LSK]

42. because the enforcer of the UN is busy making war in Iraq

[Marie26]

44. Correct.

We took credit for Lebanon's democracy, but did nothing to bolster it.

[Marie26]

35. Israel is a country, Hizbollah is not

Israel can have an army to secure itself, as any country can. Lebanon also can & does have an army. Hizbollah is not the Lebanese army & shouldn't be acting like it is; and it shouldn't be provoking wars that Lebanon wants no part of. It should have disarmed when the other militias did, to allow the Lebanese army to secure the entire country & stabilize the government.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. Yes. Along with the rest of Middle East and the rest of the world.

[Minstrel Boy]

8. How about, "Not right now"?

Because I'll tell you why. If my country was bombed to hell and my family slaughtered, I'd be on the side of anyone firing back.

[ButterflyBlood]

15. If Hezbollah had disarmed with all other groups after the civil war

This wouldn't be happening right now. Israel is certainly to blame for their actions, but Hezbollah deserves just as much condemnation for putting the Lebanese through this.

[Minstrel Boy]

19. I don't disagree.

My point is, I don't care who you are or what you've done, if you're firing upon an army whose intent is to flatten my home and has already declared it doesn't distinguish me from an enemy combatant, then I guess that's what I am.

At least that's how I imagine my perspective if I were a Lebanese, particularly one who lived south of the Litani.

If I were an Israeli, I would be grieving for the soul of my country.

[LostinVA]

68. I get the point you're making

For example, Bloody Sunday made alot of apolitical young men join the IRA (an analogy I thought someone with your name would appreciate!).

[Minstrel Boy]

69. thanks. I keep thinking

of the Lebanese refugee who hadn't supported Hezbollah, but was now saying "I want to be a bomb."

I'm just having one of those "If I had a rocket launcher" days.

[LostinVA]

70. I know... and, just for you:

The Minstrel Boy to the war is gone
In the ranks of death you will find him
His father's sword he hath girded on
And his wild harp slung behind him
Land of Song! said the warrior bard
Tho' all the world betrays thee
One sword, at least, they rights shall guard
One faithful harp shall praise thee!

The Minstrel fell! But the foeman's chain
Could not bring that proud soul under
The harp he lov'd ne'er spoke again
For he tore its chords asunder
And said "No chains shall sully thee
Thou soul of love and brav'ry!
Thy songs were made for the pure and free,
They shall never sound in slavery!

[Swede]

11. It's the only way for peace.

This may be the only chance.

[Sparkly]

12. To me, it's another no-brainer: YES. nt

[WildEyedLiberal]

16. 10 DUers support terrorists?

Thanks for giving Rush grist for the mill.

Morans. :eyes:

[Sparkly]

17. 41 say Israel should negotiate with terrorists.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2743536

Admittedly, the poll choices weren't ideal, but not answering at all is always an option. To click THAT option is beyond belief, imho.

[WildEyedLiberal]

21. Wow, THAT is appalling

What kind of rabbit hole does one have to fall down to rationalize supporting Hezbollah? As if one can't criticize aspects of Israel's offensive without *rooting* for TERRORISTS! To be fair, most on DU do, but then again, they're not the ones clicking on this poll cheering for Hezbollah.

Jayzus Christ....

[LostinVA]

25. Northern Ireland has done it

And, even though it's been far from perfect, it has been a good step in the right direction.

[sandnsea]

37. Yeah, to disarm

Disarmament was key to Sinn Fein and IRA negotiations.

[Wonk]

41. Proof that carbet bombing Belfast as a tactic worked!

Oh, wait...

[LostinVA]

67. hehehehe

[Recursion]

34. Really?

You don't support negotiation as a way for parties to resolve their differences?

I think our adamant refusal to negotiate with Hezbollah, or Hamas, or Iran, or Syria, or North Korea, has been a disastrous policy that has left us where we are today.

I'm not saying to officially recognize them, or even negotiate publicly. Use back-channels. Find out what they really want. If you sit somebody down and find out what they're really after, you can avoid a lot of bloodshed, or at least limit the conflict as much as possible.

At some point, Israel and the US have to learn that as tempting as it may seem, there is no unilateral solution here, and they need to talk with the other side, however odious that seems to them.

[Sparkly]

47. I believe there should be diplomacy with Iran and Syria

but negotiating with terrorists -- no.

[Recursion]

52. Yeah, I know, it "encourages" them

Because our policy of not negotiating has certainly succeeded in discouraging terrorism :sarcasm:

[Sparkly]

55. Who knows where we'd all be if terrorist tactics were made successful

by governments negotiating with them as a result.

[Recursion]

60. In a world where...

...grievances are finally addressed?

[Sparkly]

64. Are you actually saying

that you think kidnappings, attacks on civilians (train stations, suicide bombings etc.), are good ways to "address grievances," or that governments should give power to terrorist organizations who use such tactics by giving into their demands with "negotiations," or that such organizations should be allowed to maintain munitions, militias, and weaken governments by taking over parts of countries, etc....?

How about basic "warlords" -- are those good folks with "grievances" who should keep small arsenals, as well?

I just can't believe I'm reading this.

[Recursion]

65. I'm actually saying...

...that as long as governments ignore militant groups they will continue in their militancy until they or the government are destroyed. The only way to actually address their grievances is to talk to them and find out what they want. It's not "giving them power"; their guns give them power. It's diplomacy. Diplomacy is what makes peace happen.

What made the IRA disarm? Negotiations. What made PLO disarm? Negotiations.

Sticking Hamas and Hezbollah in the box will not make them disarm. It will increase their irredentism.

Look, if you don't want to negotiate for specific hostages, fine, don't do it. But negotiate the big issue. Come to a settlement with Hamas.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WildEyedLiberal]

28. 13 people have voted that Hezbollah should keep their weapons

Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, no ifs, ands, or buts. If people support them having weapons, then they support terrorist tactics, period.

It's lunacy to suggest that the only way to oppose Israel's position is to *support* Hezbollah. I can oppose both Bush and al-Qaeda, and thus people can oppose both Israel's tactics and Hezbollah's. Supporting, however tacitly, the killing of civilians on purpose is pretty wretched, whichever side the civilians are on.

[jonnyblitz]

29. speaking of terrorists, somebody needs to disarm the IDF!!

:wow: :hi:

[Freedom_Aflaim]

22. I support disarming terrorist such as Hezbolla

The question is how do you do it without causing mayhem.

[savemefromdumbya]

26. In the old days we used to say should the IRA be disarmed?

[sandnsea]

38. And whaddya know, they did n/t

[TahitiNut]

27. Disarm the ENTIRE Middle East. Make it a weapons-free Holy Zone.

If it's the center of three of the world's major religions, then make it behave like it!

If we can have "smoke-free" restaurants, can't we have "weapons-free" regions?

Daggers only!!

[MadHound]

32. Hear Hear! I'm with you on this one n/t

[G_j]

48. absolutely

best idea ever!!!

[Marie26]

30. Wow, 10 votes for no?

:crazy:

[readmoreoften]

31. Bombing Israel was not the will of the Lebanese as a whole.

It was the will of Hezbollah and its Shia supporters in the South. Imagine if a massive Texan militia bombed Mexico. And then the Mexican government idiotically bombed Charlotte, Chicago, and Washington to retaliate. We would want that militia to be disarmed even though the actions of Mexico should be condemned. We would not expect the entire country of Mexico to disarm.

Anyone who thinks Israel should disarm is off their cake. I think it should take an enormous collective chill pill and/or be pressured to stop the offensive, but the disarming is Israel is absurd.

[kentuck]

33. Yes. Take those missiles that are fired into Haifa....

and dump them into the sea. If the people moved out of Haifa, what would they fire on? They would be a waste - worthless with no military value at all.

[sutz12]

36. Yes, but the question, of course, is how?

[The Magistrate]

39. Certainly, Sir

That was also the view of the United Nations Security Council.

No government can afford to tolerate an armed private body sufficiently numerous to set aside its authority in a portion of the country it rules, nor can democratic politics be conducted in circumstances featuring armed political militias.

No state can be expected to tolerate the existance on its border of an armed and hostile private body levying acts of war, on however small a scale, against its soldiers and citizens.

The disarmament of Hezbollah prior to the present would have been of tremendous value to the peace and stability of the Middle East: its disarmament now, and at any point in the future, would be just as beneficial to all concerned, save the violent radicals themselves.

[Taxloss]

49. 19 votes for "no"?

So much for "no one hear supports Hezbollah".

[ButterflyBlood]

73. Proving the point I made a few days ago

About how asinine support from so-called progressives for fundamentalist Muslim terrorists are, and kept being screamed at about how I was just using a strawman to defend Israel (despite my criticism of Israel as well) and no one here supported Hezbollah.

Turns out that wasn't the case after all.

[Cameron27]

76. Unbelievable. I wouldn't have expected it. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

51. George W. Bushler should be disarmed...

... before it's too late. :hide:

[Virginia Dare]

63. Damn straight...n/t

[Virginia Dare]

53. Would that really solve all the problems?

I doubt it.

[Sparkly]

56. It'd be a great start!!!! nt

[Wonk]

57. One thing this poll completely neglects to address is HOW.

So, it's a waste of bandwidth, imho.

[Marie26]

58. Not exactly

I learned that 1/3 of DU opposes disarming Hizbollah. News to me.

[Sparkly]

59. How would you suggest? nt

[Virginia Dare]

62. Moderation is the key....

Extremists have been allowed to take over the debate on all sides. This has got to change before we will make any headway.

[ButterflyBlood]

75. All other groups from the civil war have been disarmed

The Falange forces are no longer active militarily, the various Sunni forces are no longer active militarily, the various Soviet-supported leftist factions are no longer active militarily.

It's been done.

[Virginia Dare]

61. Sorry, I can't be that optimistic...n/t

[Nye Bevan]

66. Amazing, and disappointing

23 people vote for a terrorist group to be allowed to keep their weapons.

I suppose it is possible that some or all of these 23 votes are from disruptors trying to make DU look bad. But since none of these people have posted in this thread to explain their votes, it is hard to tell.

[Xenotime]

71. If you do that, they can't defend themselves from Israel

[ButterflyBlood]

74. What need would there be to then?

Israel's current attack on Lebanon is due to Hezbollah's aggression toward them. Of course Israel has gone too far and its actions are unacceptable, but if Hezbollah weren't attacking them, this wouldn't be happening. No armed Hezbollah = no Israel attacks on them = no need to defend themselves.

Why can't they simply follow the lead of every other Lebanese faction that has converted solely to the political process?