Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Do all North American cyclists cheat?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:41 AM
Original message
Do all North American cyclists cheat?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. no
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. no
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. Very few worldwide don't
Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 09:44 AM by wtmusic
The word coming from an Olympic cyclist/friend.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nimrod2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
4. Yes...Looks like it....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Show_Me _The_Truth Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. All, as in?
Sad if this is true, but what other cyclist are you referring to?

I am not aware of another American Tour winner that has been caught doping or has any credible charges against him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. you are joking, right?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Show_Me _The_Truth Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Still with the trumped up Armstrong Charges?
EOT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. What do LeMond and Frankie Andrieu have to gain?
Both are, by all accounts, "straight shooters". Both (and Andrieu's wife) claimed Lance admitting to using "hot sauce" in the 90's. What evidence do you have that the charges are trumped up?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Show_Me _The_Truth Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. The "Evidence"
Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 12:07 PM by Show_Me _The_Truth
is dubious at best that he tested positive for anything.

In October 2005 UCI appointed Dutch lawyer Emile Vrijman to investigate the handling of urine tests by the French national anti-doping laboratory, LNDD. Vrijman was the head of the Dutch anti-doping agency for ten years, since then he has worked as a defense attorney defending high-profile athletes against doping charges. <11>. Vrijman's report exonerated Armstrong<12> and said that the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) and the LNDD may have "behaved in ways that are completely inconsistent with the rules and regulations of international anti-doping control testing," and may also have been against the law. <13>. The report said that tests on urine samples were conducted improperly and fell so short of scientific standards that it was "completely irresponsible" to suggest they "constitute evidence of anything."<14>. The recommendation of the commission's report was that no disciplinary action whatsoever should be taken against any rider on the basis of the LNDD research. It also called upon the WADA and LNDD to submit themselves to an investigation by an outside independent authority.<15> The World Anti Doping Agency (WADA) rejects UCI's stance on Armstrong's alleged drug abuse and considers legal action.<16>

In June 2006, French newspaper Le Monde reported claims made by Betsy and Frankie Andreu during a deposition that Armstrong had admitted using performance-enhancing drugs to his physician just after brain surgery in 1996. Armstrong's statement also suggested that Betsy Andreu may have been confused by possible mention of his post-operative treatment which included steroids and EPO that are routinely taken to counteract wasting and red-blood-cell destroying effects of intensive chemotherapy.<1> The Andreus' testimony was related to litigation between Armstrong and SCA Promotions, a Texas-based company that was attempting to withhold a $5-million bonus; this was eventually settled out of court with SCA paying Armstrong and Tailwind Sports $7.5 million, to cover the $5-million bonus plus interest and lawyers' fees. The Andreau's allegation was not supported by any of the eight other people present, including Armstrong's doctor Craig Nichols <2>, or his medical history, although according to Greg LeMond there exists a recorded conversation in which Stephanie McIlvain, Armstrong's contact at Oakley Inc., said to Greg LeMond, "You know, I was in that room. I heard it."<3>. Why LeMond was recording this conversation is unknown, and LeMond has been embroiled in his own disputes with Armstrong.


But wait:

LeMond later issued an apology to Armstrong, saying he was "a great champion" and that his critical remarks on Armstrong's links to Ferrari had been taken out of context.



I (actually he doesn't) don't have to prove he did not do anything wrong. You have it backwards here.

What do they have to gain? Who knows, perhaps they don't like being relegated to the second tier of Tour de France winners as they were being bested by an order of magnitude. Who knows, they have made UNSUBSTANTIATED claims. Where is LeMond's recording if it will prove his case?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Unfortunately circumstantial evidence
serves, in many cases, as sufficient proof of guilt.

On the opening weekend of the 2001 Tour, Walsh published a story in which the bombshell was a detailed account of Armstrong's visits to an Italian sports doctor named Michele Ferrari. Ferrari specializes in working with pro cyclists and has been vilified for allegedly administering performance-enhancing drugs. (He once reportedly said that EPO—which can thicken the blood and cause heart trouble—was no more harmful than five liters of orange juice.) He is currently on trial in Bologna, charged with providing EPO to professional riders and managing their use. Until Walsh's article, Armstrong hadn't acknowledged his relationship with Ferrari.

Walsh never outright accused Armstrong of doping, but he amassed alarming circumstantial evidence—evidence gleaned from the Italian carabinieri detailing whom Ferrari has treated; on-the-record quotes from a former Motorola rider and USPS doctor asserting the teams were pro-dope; and accusations of drug use on the U.S. Cycling team. Asked by Walsh if he'd ever visited Ferrari, Armstrong played coy. "Have I been tested by him, gone there and consulted on certain things? Perhaps," he said. Walsh then listed details of exactly when and where Armstrong had met with Ferrari.


http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200306/200306_lance_7.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. Better stupid question
Do all cyclists cheat? Since some cyclists from ALL countries have been tested positive. It's just as illogical to ask if all German cyclists cheat since Ullrich tested positive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Just the ones at the front nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. I'm a cyclist and I don't cheat
I don't compete, but ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedStateShame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
9. All good athletes cheat
Baseball players take steroids. Basketball games are nearly won before tip-off based on which cities can bring the biggest ratings. Football, a little from columns A & B. I don't know where this culture learned that cheaters win....oh, yeah, Florida 2000.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-27-06 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
11. Why yes, I do
Just this past weekend, I took 3 miles off my 103-mile course and stopped off at home in mid-ride to change my jersey and use the bathroom!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC