Do you agree that the Iraqi Prime Minister is Anti-Semitic?

[Clarkie1]

"The Iraqi prime minister is an anti-Semite. We don't need to spend $200 and $300 and $500 billion dollars bringing democracy to Iraq to turn it over to people who believe that Israel doesn't have a right to defend itself and who refuse to condemn Hezbollah." -Howard Dean

You know, I watched the expression on Bush's face closely when he was coming out of the meeting with Maliki yesterday, and during the press conference. Bush looked devasted, completely defeated and devasted. I can only imagine what they discussed in the 70 minutes of private, one-on-one discussions, but I suspect part of what Bush probably heard heard what a wonderful organization Hezbollah "really" was.

:puke:

[CuteNFuzzy]

1. Dean is a hypocrite

if he does not denounce Israeli crimes

Let me explain further for anyone that doesn't understand. It's very elementary morality.

If Dean will not denounce Israeli crimes, then he hasn't got room to talk about Maliki not denouncing Hizballah crimes.

It is truly that simple

[blonndee]

2. Please post the substance of the PM's remarks, if possible.

Thanks.

[Clarkie1]

10. Here's all I could find so far, from the NY Times.

For his part, Mr. Maliki has condemned Israel for its campaign in Lebanon, but he has not condemned Hezbollah — and he declined an opportunity today to declare his position on the militant group, which has a political presence in the Lebanese government as well as a military arm that operates in the southern part of the country near Israel.

“Here, actually, we’re talking about the suffering of a people,” Mr. Maliki said when asked about Hezbollah. “We are not in the process of reviewing one issue or another or any government position."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/25/world/middleeast/25cnd-prexy.html?hp&ex=1153886400&en=f3d12e5a4b76fb0d&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[DYouth]

3. I don't agree with that scumbag sentiment

"We don't agree with your political sentiments so we don't need to help repair your country that we blew the shit out of. You follow us or die."

I doubt Dean truly believes that, but he's saying it in the Democrats' new strategy: "Be more anti-Arab than the Republicans"; from the Dubai Ports deal on it's been racism to win votes.

Future generations will look back in shame. They won't be looking at me.

[Tom Joad]

4. Any one that supports Israeli war policy like Dean is anti-Arab.

[laura888]

5. Thank you! n/t

[demosincebirth]

7. I agree with Dean. I think he's right on.

[Tom Joad]

64. The last refuge of an Israeli apologist is calling anyone who disagrees

with him an anti-semite.

[demosincebirth]

72. I never said that , but I'll go with it.

[demosincebirth]

6. Bush holding a one-on-one discussion for 70 minutes?

Not a chance!

[Clarkie1]

8. Well...

They were alone for 70 minutes with only an interpreter, it has been reported.

[Euphen]

9. Maliki accused the Jews of funding violence in Iraq to discredit Islamists

He is a member of a party that helped to found Hezbollah. Really, I don't see why there is even an argument about this.

[The Gunslinger]

18. But the funny part is.........

The Rightists have split the Democrats so badly, that everyone is either pointing fingers at him or defending his statements instead of pointing out the the true root of all of this.

This administration enabled all of this. Their war for "Democracy" has brought all of this about. The failed policy of false war is what the Democrats should be focused on. A leader of a soverign nation that was publicy elected made theese comments. I think they are wrong but what did everyone expect to happen.

All this strong arm talk by the Dems is going to bite them in the ass if the time comes to vote on an Iran, Syria invasion or another escallation of combat. They now have to vote for it or look like flip floppers.

[Redstone]

11. Well, of fucking COURSE he is! Jesus, give me a break here.

Redstone

[ellenfl]

47. technically, he is anti-israeli, since he is also a semite.

from merriam-webster

Main Entry: Sem·ite
Pronunciation: 'se-"mIt, especially British 'sE-"mIt
Function: noun
Etymology: French sémite, from Semitic Shem, from Late Latin, from Greek SEm, from Hebrew ShEm
1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs b : a descendant of these peoples
2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language

ellen fl

[Redstone]

51. Uh, I do know that. But the popular usage means "Anti-Jew." And that,

he certainly is.

Redstone

[Marie26]

54. Why? nt

[NoSheep]

59. Reasonable question. n/t

[cali]

68. why?

because antisemitism is a term of are- coined by one Wilhelm Marr in 1879 to encompass his philosophy of hatred of Jews and expound upon it. Words do not, of course, automatically adhere to their etymological roots. There are thousands in the english language that do not. Antisemitism is universally used to denote hatred toward Jews and jewish culture. Words change meaning througout time, and it's possible that antisemitic will too, but as of now, it means anti-jewish.

[Marie26]

I meant - why is the Iraqi PM an anti-semite? nt

[Marie26]

69. ...

[ellenfl]

67. i think that the distinction is that american culture uses

anti-semite as a hater of the jew whereas the me countries hate the israelis because they 'stole' me land. i equate anti-semitism with irrational hatred of a group of people, not hatred of a nation. the arab countries may hate jews but i think their motivation is different. after all, they don't like christians in their midst, either.

ellen fl

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[Clarkie1]

13. Since when was it not progressive to support Israel? nt

[DYouth]

14. Do you know what Clark said after Baghdad was siezed?

The words were so sympathetic to the war that they were Orwellian.

[CuteNFuzzy]

15. I'd like to know

[Name removed]

21. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clarkie1]

16. No they weren't. He was praising professionalism of the troops.

Not the decision to go to war. And that is NOT the issue here. Please stay on topic.

[DYouth]

17. Yes, he opposed the war on strategic grounds

Not because he gives a damn about the victims of his bombs, as he didn't the civilians in Kosovo.

[Clarkie1]

22. I'm not going to respond to the crap you are posting because

1) It's off topic

2) You don't having a fucking clue what Clark "gives a damn about"

3) It's off topic

[DYouth]

24. Military-industrial hawk Clark won't have my support ever

And I suggest you look at the reality of what he is and not what you wish for him to be.

[Euphen]

25. Disagreeing with Israel does not mean you're not an anti-semite.

I think Israel's actions are criminal, and it is not because I'm an anti-semite. Maliki, on the other hand, certainly is.

[oberliner]

19. More info on Maliki's Comments and photo

Here is the text of the letter of protest to Hastert from U.S. Representatives Rahm Emanuel (D-IL), Rosa DeLauro (D-CT), Jan Schakowsky (D-IL), released the following letter to Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-IL) objecting to Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki’s planned address to Congress this Wednesday. Gary Ackerman (D-NY), Steven Rothman (D-NJ), Michael McNulty (D-NY), Frank Pallone (D-NJ), Nita Lowey (D-NY), Joseph Crowley (D-NY), William Delahunt (D-MA), C.B. Maloney (D-NY), Barney Frank (D-MA), John Olver (D-MA), Sander Levin (D-MI), George Miller (D-CA), Ed Markey (D-MA), Tim Bishop (D-NY), Shelley Berkley (D-NV) and Artur Davis (D-AL).

And a photo!

http://www.house.gov/delauro/press/2006/July/maliki_add...


And a response:

Senate Republican Whip Mitch McConnell of Kentucky called the Democrats' statements "an insult to a duly-elected leader."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060725/pl_nm/iraq_maliki_c...

[The Magistrate]

20. Gov. Dean Has Called The Tune Correctly, Sir

Both as a question of fact, and of the best political line for the Party.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[Euphen]

26. Maliki is a bigot, racist, and anti-humanitarian.

I don't think people here realize who they're defending.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[jonnyblitz]

30. ...

:thumbsup: :applause:

[Euphen]

34. Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that Maliki is indeed an anti-semite

[DYouth]

38. I doubt it sincerely

Saying there are Jewish interests in the Middle East suppressing Arabs is just truth.

Much like the Islamists and islamic extremists there are in fact Jewish fanatics in the Mossad and IDF.

[Euphen]

42. See post 39. n/t

[Marie26]

44. For some misleading propaganda. nt

[Euphen]

46. On second thought, don't look at post 39. n/t

[Marie26]

33. I'd like to see

what you base that opinion on. If there's really evidence that Malaki is anti-Semitic, I'll quickly change my opinion. Most Arab nations are quite anti-Semitic, so it wouldn't surprise me much if Malaki is as well. But I'd like to see the evidence of that first. I don't think he's anti-Semitic solely because of his position on the Israel/Hiz. conflict. Thanks!

[Euphen]

37. AP: Parliament speaker blames Iraqi violence on Jews.

“Some people say, 'We saw you beheading, kidnappings and killing. In the end we even started kidnapping women who are our honor,'” al-Mashhadani said. “These acts are not the work of Iraqis. I am sure that he who does this is a Jew and the son of a Jew.”

“I can tell you about these Jewish, Israelis and Zionists who are using Iraqi money and oil to frustrate the Islamic movement in Iraq and come with the agent and cheap project.”

“No one deserves to rule Iraq other than Islamists,” he said.

-------------------------------

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20060713-1330-iraq-israel.html

[Marie26]

This is a different person!

WTF? You're quoting someone named "Al-Mashhadani," who is a member of the opposing party. The Prime Minister's name is al-Maliki, and he didn't say any of this. So, what was the point of posting this? Were you confused, or were you trying to confuse & mislead other people?

From the article: "Al-Mashhadani is a member of the Sunni Muslim Iraqi Accordance Front while Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is a member of the Shiite Dawa party."

[Euphen]

45. Well that's embarrassing.

I mistakingly remembered Maliki making those comments, and did not read the article carefully before I posted it.

In that case, while Maliki probably is an anti-semite, Dean was wrong to make the accusation, and doing so is an act of demagoguery.

[Marie26]

48. In that case,

what makes you think that Maliki is "probably an anti-Semite," since the only evidence you had for that opinion was wrong? (I agree on the demagoguery, BTW).

[Euphen]

49. Because he is a political Islamist, and his views are, generally speaking,

unsavory. But, once again, to publicly accuse Maliki of antisemitism as Dean has is despicable.

[Erika]

52. Dr. Dean is 100% correct & he's gutsy

He states positions that others are too "pc" to state.

[Marie26]

55. Why is he correct? nt

[Marie26]

43. ...

[laura888]

27. Exactly. Your post is dead-on. Thanks. n/t

[laura888]

35. Thank you! Well said, DYouth! n/t

[Balbus]

65. Yep! So well said that it got his bigoted ass tombstoned.

[ecstatic]

29. So then, Dean is Anti-American (a traitor) for disagreeing with Bush

and Iraq war? :shrug:

I don't get it, we're allowed to criticize every other country, including our own, without fear of being called a bigot. Why are we not allowed to say anything about Israel? Israel is just another country as far as I'm concerned, and I don't hold it to any special standard.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tom Joad]

60. Maybe the term is "self-hating American" . Israeli apologists

use the term "self-hating Jew" when referring to Jewish people who speak for justice. It's used all the time when people quote Uri Avnery or Tanya Reinhart in the I/P follwed by expletives. Some of these people do it over, and over and over... and these people are never made to leave DU.

But yes, crazy ain't it.

[rocktivity]

32. You'd think Hezbollah was a nation in a border dispute with Israel

At the risk of sounding grossly uninformed, what does the Lebanese government have to say about all this, and why hasn't the Lebanese military done anything about Hezbollah? How can Lebanon be considered a democracy if these Hezbollah guys have the run of the place?

:shrug:
rocknation

[ContraBass Black]

40. Hezbollah is much, much stronger than the Lebanese military

And the Aryan Nation, World Church of the Creator, Christian Identity Church, and other terrorist groups have the run of the US.

[Euphen]

41. Lebanon's "military" consists of little more than border police.

Hezbollah has a militia stronger than most armies in the region, and the support of the majority of Lebanese shiites, who are probably about 45% of the population. If Lebanon did send its army against Hezbollah most of the soldiers would probably refuse to fight.

[Balbus]

36. Dr. Dean is....

The Man! :applause:

[in_cog_ni_to]

39. Yes. Howard Dean is spot on. n/t

[moondust]

50. Wave goodbye to that $500 billion.

Is the Iraqi Shia majority taking the naive Bush boy for all they can get as they quietly merge with the Shia of Iran/Syria/Hezbollah? They seem to have figured out that he'll say, do, or spend ANYTHING to try to salvage something from that mess, and by extension his pResidency.

Definitely a sign when Iraqi PM publicly condemns Israel but not (Shia) Hezbollah.

[cigsandcoffee]

53. Condemning Hezbollah would put Iraq in even deeper trouble...

...with much of the Muslim world. I'd say he has enough trouble on his hands already.

[NNN0LHI]

66. ...would put Iraq in even deeper trouble...

With rapes, murders, kidnappings, suicide bombings, death squads, sexual degradation, IEDs, torturing and dismemberments being kind of a normal thing in Iraq these days what exactly would "deeper trouble" look like?

I mean what other kinds of horrors are left that can be added to that list that could possibly be worse for someone who happens to be living in todays Iraq?

Don

[Superman Returns]

56. God bless Dean

I have seen some of the most outragous comments made during this past week. People playing down the fact that missles were pounding Israel everyday and the only reason its citizens are not having as many casualties is because they are in underground bunkers; millions of them. Its also important to note that Hezbollah is targeting indiscrimintantly and in fact, purposely aiming at civilian centers. But this always overlooked. Yet that wasn't the extent. People actually call Israel a terrorist state and justify Hezbollah's actions! I'm not talking about an army fighting the Israeli forces but a terrorist group aiming missles into civilian centers. These posters are so in love with their liberal in words such as "PNAC" and "neocon" which are legitimate when describing the Bush administration yet naive when explaining every event that happens in the world, especially the actions of Israel in dealing with a problem that has started long before those words ever came into the vocabulary. Hell, if these posters were ever invited to speak to Congress, half the Democratic Party would boycott them until they condem Hezbollah. I understand criticizing Israel isn't de facto anti-semitism. American Jews do not 100 percent support Israel. But what hurts the most is sympathy for a movement that is so anti-liberal, anti-progressive, and anti-peace. Hezbollah does not want peace! The end game for this organization is Israel's complete annhilation. They can't come to the "table" if they want to blow the table up. Sorry for the rant, but I appreciate are Democratic leadership more and more everyday.

[Tom Joad]

61. Some people do oppose the carnage Israel is inflicting, sir.

[Tom Joad]

62. Knew you'd be back. Can't keep some in the grave for long.

[Rex]

57. I've never been so disgusted with my country as now.

So, the guy who has watched as America totally fucks his country up is supposed to be a puppet to whatever ANOTHER country thinks is morally right and just?

Jebbus fookin Krishna...we have 3 year olds running America! Argghhhh!!!!

[High Plains]

58. He may be an anti-semite, but he's OUR anti-semite.

Actually, I don't have a clue as to Maliki's degree of anti-semitehood.

[fujiyama]

63. I can't agree for sure because of one or two statements

condemning Iraeli actions. Calling Israel's actions "criminal" does not, to me atleast, qualify as anti-Semetic. And while I believe Hezbollah and its stated goals certainly are anti-Semetic, even if the PM didn't condemn the organization, it would still be difficult to say what he believes. After all, he's Shiite. A majority of his country is Shiite, and any indication he is appearing to be a pawn of the US and Israel may well result in his assassination.

All I can say I'm not convinced he's anti-Semetic. He's showing that he's pretty cowardly in not condemning Hezbollah, but that's certainly no surprise, considering Iran is likely encouraging Hezbollah and similar groups in Iran.

But I'm not going to lash out at Dean's comments either. He was at a fundraiser in West Palm Beach, FL and I wouldn't have expected much different from Dean. While I believe the accusations of anti Semetism are harsh, Dean's job is to raise money from the party and if such rhetoric helps I really don't care if this hurts the Iraqi PM's feelings. I don't view that nation's government as particularly legitimate anyways. While I sometimes don't think he uses the right words to express himself, Dean has generally been right on Iraq from the begining.

[ButterflyBlood]

70. Dean was absolutely right to bash that Bush lapdog piece of crap

I don't care if he's an anti-Semite, he's a toadie of Bush and a fundamentalist Muslim. He deserves ALL criticism

[Douglas Carpenter]

71. If one condemns Hezbollah but refuses to denounce the Israeli attacks

does that mean they are an anti-Arab racist?

I do not know whether or not the Iraqi PM is an anti-Semite.