Can we get beyond 9/11?

[Ron Green]

The day that thousands of families, mostly American families, lost loved ones in the attacks in New York and Washington and the plane crash in Pennsylvania was a sad one, made more difficult by the panic over the vulnerability of our air traffic system. Now after more than 4 years, although these deaths still bring pain to many, they are statistically and numerically diminished when compared to automobile deaths, for example, or those from heart disease or even American bombing of civilians in Iraq.

However, the damage from 9/11 is becoming incalculable in its invocation as a rationale for the damage to our nation by its current administration. How many more times can Bush stand up and talk about this day without someone shouting at him "Enough! You can't use that anymore! It didn't change a damn thing in this country except your willingness to appropriate it as a 'brand name' to further your Fascist agenda."

The crashing of the towers was so much like a Hollywood disaster movie that I do believe our country has appropriated the images of that day as a colorful collage of national holocaust. Would it really dishonor the memories of the victims to just "get over it" and move on toward a real future? How about some thoughts from those who lost loved ones that day? Isn't it time to get beyond it?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. I agree with you

we allowed the tragedy to be exploited by fear mongers.

[SammyBlue]

36. Until we stop being afraid of our own shadows, no, it won't happen

but I agree with you, Tallahassee!

[undeterred]

2. We need to get to the truth of 9/11

I believe that our own government was complicit in this event, which they have used to justify many worse acts, such as invading another nation.

Our healing is in bringing out the truth of what happened on 9/11 - only then will people understand how completely we have been manipulated.

[seemslikeadream]

3. No way

not until as many people as possible know who was really responsible for 9/11

MIHOP

[Ron Green]

7. I think about JFK, the Warren Commission, and the shelves of material

that have been written about that event, with precious little agreement on the truth of it. Do you think this will be any different?

[Proud_Lefty]

9. I totally agree

There's so much evidence out there that this government intentionally killed thousands of Americans and then utilized it for illegal wars and taking away our civil liberties. To move on without getting to the truth is a death sentence for the future of our country.

[Burning Water]

29. I'm sorta new here.

I must have missed the discussion. Can you clue me in on the evidence, because it seems unlikely to me.

[m0nkeyneck]

30. building 7...

[Burning Water]

32. I

don't understand that reference,either. Sorry.

[Speed8098]

47. Check this website

It will help you understand.

http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/911smokingguns.html

Visit that site when you have some time to spend reading. I think you'll find it very interesting.

[Burning Water]

56. Thanks n/t

[Proud_Lefty]

31. It comes from many relevations

Especially what came out during the 9/11 Commissions. But there are so many reports of people hearing explosions during the attacks. The way they went down was consistent with implosions. When a high rise is on fire, it doesn't melt the frames. If it was that hot, which they're trying to claim, the people running through the building would have never survived. There's the lingering questions about why no interceptors were present for such an incredibly long period of time. It appears Cheney has coincidentally arranged mock drills that very morning, totally confusing the FAA. People say they were waiting for presidential orders to shoot, but it turns out presidential orders aren't necessary. There were massive amounts of cover-ups during the 9/11 hearings. People like Sibel Edmonds, a translator came up with significant information and was gagged by John Ashcroft. One FAA official testified that he shredded tapes of eyewitness accounts and distributed them in several different wastebaskets. The FBI confiscated all photographs and the blackboxes and refuse to make them public. The 9/11 commission was only able to make recommendations on items that were unanimous. Why? Why did FEMA arrive in Florida on 9/10? This is just the start of questions nobody will even start to answer. Instead, they call us conspiracy nuts. We just want facts that prove their official story and we never get it. For some reason, many people these days aren't suspicious when they see the White House covering up everything. It's scary.

[rman]

43. discussions of evidence in the DU 9-11 forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125

And indeed the collapse of building 7 is one of the bigger smoking guns, which is probably why it isn't shown on TV very often.

[Burning Water]

45. Thanks

:) :) :)

[QuettaKid]

48. speaking of building 7...I just found out yesterday

this little bit of info:

"9/11 (6:47 am) - The WTC 7's fire alarm system is placed on "TEST" mode for an eight hour period for "maintenance or other testing" in which any alarms that are received from the system are not shown on the operator’s display and are considered the result of the maintenance or testing and are ignored."


this is from the NIST progress report.

http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/oddities/911.html#6:47am-WTC7_fire_alarm

( note to MODS: the page I linked to is referencing ONLY MSM sources....thanks.)

[OKNancy]

49. For what it's worth

Most people think the Building 7 stuff is a bunch of hogwash.
:tinfoilhat:

[QuettaKid]

52. sorry, couldn't disagree with that more.

Have you looked at the videos carefully, closely? compare the demolition of WTC 7 with other controlled explosions. look for the "squibs" small explosive bursts climbing up the outside of the building in a pattern of 2 rows. plus the FACT that no other steel framed skyscraper has ever collapsed from fire.


www.wtc7.net

[hang a left]

58. Most people????

Whom are you speaking for?

[MadisonProgressive]

4. Yes and No

Yes, BusHitler should stop invoking 9/11 to justify all his illegal activity. No, we should not get past it before we can THOROUGHLY investigate the real cause.

[BOSSHOG]

5. We should be well past it by now

however, bush and his administration have the millions of religiously insane drones and various and asundry racist groups that he needs to keep pumping the day for all its worth. I give bush a pass in this mess; its out neighbors who wave flags for a reason they do not know why and put magnets on their cars for no apparent reason and have no concept of how to support troops. The ignorant masses who clog the septic tank which is our current political system. And if any of you lurkers would like to set me straight please share your philosophy on the subject. Share with us why you are such dumbasses. Please tell us how 9-11 changed everything.

[CJCRANE]

6. The war of choice on Iraq has caused far more

American casualties than 9-11 if you take into account the wounded.

[flyarm]

8. never !! never !! never!!

as a flight attendant for one of the 2 airlines involved..ny based..2001 flight attend of the year for my airline..i am now retired ( took early retirement because i no longer trust this government!!)

i grew up in Middletown Nj the town that lost the most victims...

i will never get over the bullshit lies of this admin and the lies they have perpetrated on the american people!

never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i will fight for the truth for my co-workers that were lost that day..and for the people i grew up with or their children lost that day..if it take till my dying breath!!

they deserve no less..and actually they deserve much much more than every damn american who is too lazy to fight for the truth.. and is willing to do in their memory..and for the pitiful americans who are too coward to know the truth!!

you were lied to americans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

big time!

fly..who fights for the angels of my airline lost on 9/11 ..i will never forget them..and i will fight to death for their truth!

[AZBlue]

11. I am so sorry for your losses!

You are honoring them greatly by your fight - keep up the good work! I know they are smiling down upon you.

[Ron Green]

12. So there are two brands of "9/11" ...

One is the 9/11 that Bush uses, the one that "changed everything" and woke us up to the fact that thousands of enemies want to destroy the U.S. and they are training night and day to do this, and that's why we have to put some limits on our Constitutional freedoms.

The other brand of "9/11" is that our government either planned and executed, or stood by while knowing others were planning, the attacks on that day, in order to accomplish the big step toward Fascism this administration has taken.

Jesus, which one will sell? That's the $64 question.

[flyarm]

20. ya know..i never had fear ...not in the air ..and not in my country...

i never had fear...read my lips ..i have no frigging fear...

i started flying when i was 19 yrs old..and i am 54 now...i have no fear..or i would never have gone into a tube in the air for the largest part of my life!


i have a whole hell of alot of anger...and i only got that when my government failed and failed miserably on 9/11

i got damn angry when i stood at my co-workers memorials and was lied to by my government...

i got even angrier when my nations media lied up their assholes about the murder of my neighbors and co-workers who were murderedd on 9/11

but i got pissant mad when i was invited to a round table 15 participants to question one of the 9/11 commissioners..at a major university...in front of the faculty of the university...and i asked 3 questions and my husband two ( hubby was tutored by me to ask specific..pertinent questions..) and the sob didn't answer one of my questions..and he looked like he would faint when i pulled out a picture of my graduation to my airline and my wing ceremony and the man who started my airline was at my graduation...and i stated he was rolling in his grave today at all the lies and bullshit this administration and this commission& media were selling a very falsely frightened country..

i said the original owner and president of my airline..cared about 2 things more tha anything else..the safety of his passengers..and the safety of his crew members..i told this commissioner he has failed on both accounts! i asked him how he looks in the mirror and lives with himself...

this 9/11 commissioner started sweating and turned paste white with my opening statement and my questions..he didn't even attempt to answer me...but when my husband asked his questions..i thought the guy would faint..as my husband held him up and demanded answers and humiliated this 9/11 commissioner and all but called him a fraud...

there are somethings in life we must all hold people responsible for, and accountable for...and in the case of 9/11 AND this adminstration..no one has been held accountable for both failures or complicity..nor has any real investigation ever been done ..and that is the first time in US aviation history!!

all warnings were ignored ..was it deliberate??

how will we ever know??

why was i as a flight crew not been given that warning as required by law??

why was norman minetta not given the warning..he was head of transportation..and he was not warned!

ya know bullshit only goes so far..i am done with anyones bullshit...

done...

and noooo i will never forget my co-workers...and i will never forget my neighbors from my home town...no sireee..and i will fight for the truth for them ..as long as i breathe!

and i am sick of cowards who would give up their constitution with no damn fight ...for lies..or bullshit!

fly

[rman]

44. More importantly: which one is true.

The fact that one may be harder to "sell" should be no reason to get over it.

[newspeak]

26. you know, I can believe one airplane could be hijacked

with a slackened security, but four? Come on, something does not smell right. Every one of those terrorists passed security? I will not believe that all Americans are that inept. Also, how many minutes did it take to attack the pentagon after the second building was hit? I will never forget, and if there is another attack on American soil, I am going to put the blame where it originally belonged--this administration who wouldn't know the truth if it hit them over the head.

[shance]

37. Thank you for posting Flyarm.

I'm so sorry to hear 9/11 affected your life so closely.

I admire and greatly appreciate your anger and conviction, and I am sure your deeply felt experience surrounding 9/11 is a testament to others, as it is to me.

Thank you again*

[flyarm]

39. i wish i could say ..your welcome..but this is not a matter of choice for

me..this is my mission the rest of my life ..to get the truth exposed..everywhere i go my co-worker angels are with me..they push me when i am tired..they push me when i think i can't do anymore...and they do send me signals...

i never ran for homeroom queen..but last yr i ran for delegate to the dem national convention for my state..for someone like me who has put privacy above all..it was not easy for me to run for election..but i not only ran but i tied for the most votes!

i spent 2 years out public speaking and telling people the lies of 9/11 ..what i could tell people without giving away security info..

and when i did the signup for the convention and i got my registration number ..i almost fainted when i got it in email...

my registration number was 911..........

i had to call the people in charge in dc..i was crying hysterically...it shook me up so much...

yes my registration number was 911..............

i was flight attendant of the year for our NY base in 2001 for my airline..one of the two airlines involved in 9/11

yes i get the messages...and i will not let my lost co-workers down...i will not and i can not...

this admin has lied in the worst ways to americans and the world..and i will not be silent until they are held accountable!

and in prison ..with shackles on them for life!

fly

[shance]

42. You're an inspiration and the kind of American that makes me proud

to be one too.

Thank you for ALL that you are and that you do Flyarm.

You have DU angels here who care deeply as well.

:hug:

Take care and here's to a truth inspired 2006!!***

[AZBlue]

10. People who want to "get over it" and "move on" infuriate me.

We don't need to wallow in it. We do need to continue with our lives. But to "get over it" implies forgetting about it and that's an insensitive thing to suggest, to those who lived through it, to those who died in it, and to those who lost friends and family that day. It really diminishes the importance of their lives. What if we told the Iraqis or the families of soldiers who have died in Iraq to just "get over it?" There's no difference between the two. Innocent people are dying for no good reason.

However, your post also mentions Bush and his repeated invocation of that day to support his asinine plans and assertions. That is as insensitive and does as much dishonor as telling someone to "get over it." I see little difference between the two - neither one shows respect for the individuals lost.

[stillcool]

13. How can you get over any of it .....

when you have no frigging idea what it is you are getting over?

[Ron Green]

14. So what are the chances that we'll have a clearer picture, say,

five years from now? What will it take to have a real investigation?

[MadisonProgressive]

15. A democratic majority in congress or a democratic president

Apparently republicans couldn't care less.

[flyarm]

21. go out and get a dem congress!!! no excuses...not now not next year..

just do it..get out and knock on doors..sign up with dem groups..and do something..go work with the people fighting these voting machines...just do something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!there is no time left for excuses..its your country ..now fight for her! bust your ass for her!!

just don't make excuses..that won't fly anymore!!put 100% of yourself into getting a balanced government!! with everything in your heart...

just do it!!

fly

[Cleita]

16. Not as long as the Bushistas drag it out in every speech

and press conference they participate in.

[TahitiNut]

17. Can Iraq ever get over the equivalent of more than 400 9/11's???

The atrocities against innocents in Iraq dwarf 9/11.

[SoCalDem]

18. Nope

It's unfortunately, a convenient tool for stirring up xenophobic frenzy.

200 + citizens lost their lives in OKC, and we are not afraid of blond ex-soldiers.

As long as our leaders & media tell us to be afraid of the "other", 9-11 will be invoked over and over....forever..

[pinto]

19. Remember when the Dem's were tagged with the "9/11 as a criminal case"

meme? In hindsight that might be telling. It was used as a slur to move the focus of our response and politicize opposition.

I don't buy the IHOP's, but 9/11 was and remains a criminal case. And that implies some possibility of resolution in identifying, tracking and apprehending the perps. It hasn't happened.

In this foggy "war on terror" that possibility seems to have been set aside.

Now we have the seemingly endless jingoism of 9/11 - morphed as the war on terror - used as a rationale for the manipulation of foreign and domestic policy. Used as a justification for abrogating Constitutional guarantees. And, sadly, used as a ploy to make the nation's memories of 9/11 a partisan, political asset.

9/11 will always be a part of the national psyche, there's no way around that, nor should there be. But putting the event in a realistic framework - one that recognizes the enormity of the event and supports a national return to day-to-day life - would be a great example of leadership.

[MellowOne]

22. check out the 9/11 forum at DU

Within a few hours of reading, you will agree, MIHOP.

[OneBlueSky]

23. not until we find the truth about who did it . . . (hint: it was BushCo)

what happened on 9/11 is the biggest coverup since JFK . . . the "official" story has more holes than all the cheese in Switzerland, and the corporate media continues to ignore the real evidence . . .

we MUST find the truth about 9/11 -- nothing will bring BushCo down faster, harder, and more completely . . .

[Redstone]

24. Except that nobody ever shouts "enough" at Bush.

Would be nice if someone did, but they don't.

He gets to prattle on "9/11, 9/11, 9/11," and NOBODY ever calls him on it.

Redstone

[FlemingsGhost]

25. Hah! ... this country is still "fighting" the Vietnam War.

Imagine how long it will take to come to terms with a our version of the Reich stag fire.

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

27. In a word, no.

We are not about to get over 9/11, not for generations. The damage that has been done to our country in the name of the 3000 who died that day will live in infamy.

[dailykoff]

28. Not until the truth is exposed

and the perpetrators brought to justice in an Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, Wyoming, Federal, or U.S. Military court.

(The jurisdictions with capital punishment statutes)

[EstimatedProphet]

33. We won't get past it until it isn't held over our heads anymore

And that's just what the administration is doing.

When I lived in DC I used to listen to WTOP, because it was aboult all I could pick up. After 9/11 happened, for literally years afterward, they mentioned 9/11 at least every 15 minutes, usually with a lead in like "Since the attack of 9/11..." or "Now that 9/11 has changed the world...", etc. It was pretty obviously programming, almost Pavlovian.

[tenshi816]

54. It's the "Now that 9/11 has changed the world"

that gets me the most. No, it didn't. While the world was mostly sympathetic, 9/11 didn't change the rest of the world. That's American hubris there, thinking that the United States is the center of the universe.

If Tony Blair, for one example, tried to invoke July 7 in the way the Dumbass does 9/11, he would be relentlessly mocked and laughed at (OK, he already is mocked and laughed at, but you know what I mean). The British, having made it through years of bombing in WWII and years of sectarian violence at the hands of the IRA, know that while unspeakably bad things can and do happen in life at the hands of bad people, you just have to get on with living it. Living in fear isn't living at all.

[Beam Me Up]

34. 9/11 is the biggest lie of the Bush regime. Much bigger than WMD. n/t

[shance]

35. Should we just sit back and enjoy the rape?

Kind of like the past three stolen elections since 2000.

Is that what you want Americans to continue to do?

[Corgigal]

38. Hell No

and it did change the country that day. It showed live and on national TV that this govt couldn't, more likely wouldn't, do shit to save anyone. Allowing IFR flights to fly all over the nation, telling us that we couldn't figure out where they were going because we lost the digital signal.

Our military and federal control skyway's have procedures to follow on that day and what everyone just forgot? Rumsfeld had to run out of the Pentagon and play EMS worker. Cheney sits with his wife and watch cable news. Bush is allowed to pose with children to announce to the world we have been attacked and then disappears for hours and our national govt doesn't even give us the courtesy of a phone call on CNN?

Then Iraq happened, then Katrina and who knows whats to come next year. Wait until we get unlucky and a real bird flu or some biological weapon goes off.

Hollywood disaster movie? Anyone who thinks that way is a light weight and is back to pretending it couldn't, wouldn't happen to me or my loved ones. Go ahead and fool yourself Ron Green and think it's so 2001.

[Stephanie]

40. I didn't lose anyone but I've met people who did and people who

just escaped with their lives and I live close enough to have to seal my windows against the acrid smoke, and I will say that none of us will ever be over it and the proposition is insulting. Ask GEORGE BUSH to get over it. Ask the EXPLOITERS of the horror to knock it off. Don't blame the victims.

[H2O Man]

51. Good answer.

The question isn't one of "getting over it." Rather, it is one of "where do we go from here?", to borrow a phrase from King. We continue to live, and should try to move forward .... not "getting over it," forgetting it, or because of it. We must move forward despite it. We should learn from all of life's lessons, the good and the bad.

[tyedyeto]

41. I don't know everything that happened that day but I do know that...

every time any * admin person says 9/11, it's to instill fear upon this country. Why else do they bring it up in every speech? I tend to be more of a LIHOP than a MIHOP person but I fear that this group who running our country is going to make something happen in our country very soon, just so they can keep control of Congress.

[Nobody]

46. My calendar includes Sept 12th

Yes my post title is smartass ;)

What I'm noticing is that there are too many people obsessing about the terrorist attack four years ago. This was the best thing ever to happen to George Bush, the boy emperor.

Bush made out like a bandit on other people's misery. As Americans, we should not let the likes of Osama bin Laden make us change what we are. George Bush is a rotten leader and did a very piss-poor job of getting us through the first four years after that.

When there was a bombing in London, Margaret Thatcher walked on her own two feet into Downing Street in a big FU to the bombers. When the World Trade Center fell, Little Boy Georgie sat in front of a camera with his mouth open looking like an actor who forget the next line. Dick Cheney hid and stayed hidden. And everyone in charge of this nation of ours encouraged more fear. No one said anything about refusing to give in to fear, instead it was Terra-lert this and Terra-lert that. No common sense. It was a constant fear-fest, and the Bush Banana Republicans used fear to push this country toward fascism. Only with that much fear and an attack of that magnitude would anyone in this country swallow what we've swallowed.

I am proud to be in the 10% who refused to support Bush on September 12th, 2001.

I hate it when tragedies are used as excuses to push forth an agenda that does absolutely nothing to prevent this from happening again. I am convinced that we could have and should have been able to stop this in its tracks before either tower was hit. This was allowed to happen, and that's what pisses me off the most about the whole thing.

[QuettaKid]

50. Count me in FIRMLY

on the side of NEVER GETTING OVER IT UNTIL THE TRUTH IS KNOWN!!!

[Dangerman]

53. 9/11 DID change everything...

It made America from a beacon of freedom and democracy to a regime tittering close of Nazi/Italian-style facism... No thanks to chimpy!

[boobooday]

55. Not until we get beyond the warmongers in power

Who have to bring it up every day, to justify every heinous idea they ever had.

[mwb970]

57. Someone knows....

There is someone, somewhere (maybe several someones) who knows how Cheney & Co. pulled this off. (Obviously, Bush wasn't in on it, just like he wasn't in the White House Iraq Group. Did you see his "My God, they actually did it" expression when Card interrupted his goat book?)

Eventually, the person who knows will speak out. There isn't a fan in the world big enough to handle what will hit it then.