Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

2003-Wesley Clark Discussed Bush Plan for Serial War -6 Nations In 5 Years

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 06:07 PM
Original message
2003-Wesley Clark Discussed Bush Plan for Serial War -6 Nations In 5 Years
The Secrets Clark Kept
What the General Never Told Us About the Bush Plan for Serial War

by Sydney H. Schanberg
September 29th, 2003

............................

For example, he says he learned from military sources at the Pentagon in November 2001, just two months after the September 11 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, that serious planning for the war on Iraq had already begun and that, in addition to Iraq, the administration had drawn up a list of six other nations to be targeted over a period of five years.

Here’s what he writes on page 130:

"As I went back through the Pentagon in November 2001, one of the senior military staff officers had time for a chat. Yes, we were still on track for going against Iraq, he said. But there was more. This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia, and Sudan." Clark adds, "I left the Pentagon that afternoon deeply concerned."

He never disclosed anything like this information in any of his CNN commentaries or in the opinion columns he wrote for print media at the time. If Americans had known such things, and if the information is accurate, would they have supported the White House’s march to war? Would Congress have passed the war resolution the White House asked for?

more at:
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0340,schanberg,47436,1.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
david_vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. If we ever go up against Iran
they are going to hand us our fucking heads.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SensibleAmerican Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. You're kidding me, right
If we had a President who had a total disregard for life, we could overrun any country save China.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WHEN CRABS ROAR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Then we would have
A second civil war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. or Vietnam?
:shrug:

we have a president already who has a total disregard for life, and a down-trodden nation like Iraq is kicking our collective ass
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SensibleAmerican Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. We would have won Vietnam had the public not opted to "give up"
We killed a score times more people in Vietnam than we lost in troop casualties. However, America's definition of a "pyrrhic victory" is more sensible and has a much lower threshold than dictatorships.

Unless you think that Saddam Hussein is still running the country of Iraq and his arrest is some big scam, we acheived our mission in Iraq. The President was not off the mark when he said "Mission Accomplished". The mission was to depose Saddam Hussein, and America succeeded. It was the tackiness in the way he said it that upset America.

Our fault right now is that we do not have a defined objective. Right now, we are acting like a police force. Guess what, our military is not trained to do that and a police apparatus has to be embedded in a greater criminal justice system. Neither of those two requirements have been fulfilled.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. umm.. we succeeded in Iraq?
ok

looks successful to me, too
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SensibleAmerican Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Please read my entire post
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Victory in Viet Nam had a price
And that price was being known as the worst genocidal nation in history.
We drooped more bombs on the north than in all of WW2 and still they fought on. We would have to kill them all to have a victory on the land.
If the mission was to depose Saddam then what are we doing there now? Did the mission morph into something else? And if that is the case then obviously the mission was not accomplished.
Any time you turn the military louse you have an objective, and that is to break and destroy things and kill people. That is there job and it has no shame attached to it other than the morality of those that give the orders.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Oh no. Another "We coulda won it if the politicians had let us!"
argument. Jeez, when will you guys learn?

First of all, one has to define what a "win" in Vietnam would be; South Vietnam adopting democracy? They already did, in 1954. At least a form of democracy which would keep all the power and the money at the top. A form of democracy which would pave the way for massive military and economic aid from the U.S. That happened, too.

North Vietnam adopting democracy? Well, they kinda did, too. In 1954, the U.S. canceled nationwide free elections in a not-yet-divided Vietnam because it was known that Ho Chi Minh would win. Sounds like the Vietnamese knew who they wanted in charge, and were prepared to vote for him. Sounds like democracy to me. After the division of Vietnam, when North Vietnam declared its sovereignty and independence (using the U.S. Declaration Of Independence as a model, no less) the people of North Vietnam chose Ho to be their leader, and his brand of Communism to be their ideology. As Robert Mason, author of "Chickenhawk" wrote: "They might not be happy under Communism, but everyone has to make his own mistakes."

As for U.S. involvement in what was essentially a civil war, what would a "win" have been? Nuking the whole country? What for? Did North Vietnam bomb Pearl Harbor? Would nuking a tiny country that was no threat to the U.S. have played very well on the international stage? Would China or the Soviet Union have stood idly by while we leveled an entire nation with nukes?

And what would a "win" conventionally have looked like? Crossing the borders and invading the NVA and Viet Cong sanctuaries? We did that with the invasion of Cambodia. Didn't help. Invading North Vietnam? Even if we took Hanoi and declared "victory", would China have ignored this threat to their southern border? Would they have pushed south to drive the invader out, as they did in Korea in 1950?

And in order to "win", would we have been prepared, in Ho Chi Minh's words, to "stay here and eat rice for a thousand years"? How many "wins" would we have tolerated before finally giving up and going home? Keep in mind the words passed between the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., and his Vietnamese counterpart at the signing of the Paris Peace Treaty in 1973:

U.S. Ambassador: "You know, you never beat us on the battlefield."

Vietnam Ambassador: "That is true. It is also irrelevant."

So tell me, what would a "win" have been?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SensibleAmerican Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I never said that
I said it was the sensible decision to pull out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Who is the "we" in your subject line?

Is there some "we" living in the US other than "the public"?

Had we supported the Vietnamese people when they wanted independence from France in the first instance, the entire episode would have been avoided.

With the exception of the British in Burma, NOBODY has ever put down an indigenous insurgency.

Who, specifically, in Iraq do you want to "win" against?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. Um no, the mission wasn't to get Saddam out of power
Edited on Mon Jul-24-06 09:01 PM by Downtown Hound
The mission was to rid Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction. Remember, "We need to take 'em out before they set off a mushroom cloud in D.C.?" Oops, they weren't there. It was a bullshit war fought for bullshit reasons. It was nothing more than a neocon wet dream of dominating the entire Middle East and its remaining supplies of oil so that the people that put Bush in power would have access to it for the remainder of the century. By people I mean oil companies.

And you can forget about the "we would have won Vietnam if the public hadn't given up" crap as well. Vietnam withstood the Japanese, the Chinese, the French, and the Americans for more than ten years and they never gave up. Such thinking is clearly delusional, and reflects a huge infatuation with military power and a complete ignorance of its limits. We are not going to win in Iraq. We were not going to win in Vietnam. The best thing right now is to pull out and stop the killing so no one else has to die for the mad fantasies of Bush and his neocon pals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reincarnated Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
29. Yeah you are so right.. we took over a country rich in oil for big oil...
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. well bush has a total disregard for life (after birth that is)
and I still do not think we can overrun Iran....

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HannibalBarca Donating Member (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Even China would be obliterated
...scary all that power in the hands of king Chimp.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. Why Somalia, and Sudan.??
what am I missing?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. diamonds? Oil? Ores, etc?
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Both share very strategic sea ports.
Edited on Mon Jul-24-06 07:14 PM by acmejack
http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=map+of+africa&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

edit: Somalia strategic location on Horn of Africa along southern approaches to Bab el Mandeb and route through Red Sea and Suez Canal

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. Thanks
If Sudan is also strategic why are we not help in the genocide?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. To let the shit get out of control.....and then the U.S. could pretty much
do what it wants there...and we would be grateful!

Sudan is one of those "Set ups" done by letting 450,000 die and all this admin will doe is give some jawbone bout nothin'!

Maybe that is why Wes Clark has been advocating doing something to stop the genocide in the Sudan from as far back as 2004...before it was too late!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
QUALD Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. We've never had the army for all that....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Reckon Donating Member (729 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. I guess some people will NEVER LEARN.
Edited on Mon Jul-24-06 07:25 PM by Reckon
"Mission Accomplished" = making a HUGE MESS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. Back in 2001, Clark was better known in Europe than at home....
Edited on Mon Jul-24-06 08:28 PM by FrenchieCat
Until he started appearing on CNN commenting on 9/11, Clark was a relatively unknown here in the United States except for those very political individuals who had followed Kosovo a couple of years prior.

It wasn't until the fall of 2002 that the real preparations to invade Iraq began, and maybe because of what Clark knew...this is why he was against this invasion before it began! And why he testified to both houses of congress against doing it.....and why he worked behind the scenes to convert Democratic senators to vote against the IWR!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1401315&mesg_id=1404257


Also know that he was called a "loon" for discussing this 5 year plan on Meet the press in June of 2003.....

BROOKS: The full-mooners fixated on a think tank called the Project for the New American Century, which has a staff of five and issues memos on foreign policy. To hear these people describe it, PNAC is sort of a Yiddish Trilateral Commission, the nexus of the sprawling neocon tentacles.
We’d sit around the magazine guffawing at the ludicrous stories that kept sprouting, but belief in shadowy neocon influence has now hardened into common knowledge. Wesley Clark, among others, cannot go a week without bringing it up.

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh010904.shtml

Plus I hate that particular Village Voice article....cause they were indicting Clark for not having spoken up earlier.....although they fail to mention that no one was discussing PNAC UNTIL the Iraq Invasion started brewing. So why did the Village Voice think that Clark should have screamed about this before it became an actual possibility? He at least published the plan in his book.... and yet, nothing happened. Still have pols who voted for the IWR acting like they were "misled" and never heard of PNAC, so how about that? :shrug:

Here's an excerpt of a 2003 Interview with Gene Lyons on Wes Clark....
"Going all the way back to the summer of 2002, I got a sense of how strong his feelings about Iraq were. Long before it was clear that the administration was really going to sell a war on Iraq, when it was just a kind of a Republican talking point, early in the summer of 2002, Wesley Clark was very strongly opposed to it. He thought it was definitely the wrong move. He conveyed that we'd be opening a Pandora's box that we might never get closed again. And he expressed that feeling to me, in a sort of quasi-public way. It was a Fourth of July party and a lot of journalists were there, and there were people listening to a small group of us talk. There wasn't an audience, there were just several people around. There was no criticism I could make that he didn't sort of see me and raise me in poker terms. Probably because he knew a lot more about it than I did. And his experience is vast, and his concerns were deep.

He was right, too. How long ago was it that you were hearing all this sweeping rhetoric from the Project for a New American Century; that we were going to essentially conquer the south of Asia, contain China, and dominate the Middle East? And the United States was going to stand astride the world like a colossus. And all of a sudden, we invade a crummy, tin-pot, little third-rate dictatorship like Iraq, and we've already got more than we can handle. It's clear we're not going to dominate the world. And the question is, how in the world do we get out of there with our skins intact? And how do we then find a foreign policy that makes more sense?"
http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/03/10/int03221.html


Plus, Wes Clark isn't the only one who knew of the PNAC, although he may the only to have spoken about it in public as early as he did....But we must remember that the entire Clinton administration and everyone in it also knew about PNAC (they did received the signed letter, didn't they?), the website, the players, etc..... Yet Hillary and many of the other pols voted for the IWR...so go figure! :eyes:

Further......Wes Clark has been talking about the Neocons for the past few years ....while other pols have not...and what has that done? Not a damn thing, that's what...except for put him on the Corporate media's Shit list (which is why he gets very little ink.....)!

----------

Project Censored has announced the release of their picks for the Most Censored News Stories of the Year for 2002-2003.
http://www.attac.info/mumbai2004/index.php?NAVI=1016-114988-14en

Censored 2002
Neocons' plans for global domination top the annual list of stories ignored or downplayed by the mainstream media
By Camille T. Taiara
http://newtimes.rway.com/2003/100103/cover.shtml



http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1842
Media Silent on Clark's 9/11 Comments
Gen. says White House pushed Saddam link without evidence


Sunday morning talk shows like ABC's This Week or Fox News Sunday often make news for days afterward. Since prominent government officials dominate the guest lists of the programs, it is not unusual for the Monday editions of major newspapers to report on interviews done by the Sunday chat shows.

But the June 15 edition of NBC's Meet the Press was unusual for the buzz that it didn't generate. Former General Wesley Clark told anchor Tim Russert that Bush administration officials had engaged in a campaign to implicate Saddam Hussein in the September 11 attacks-- starting that very day. Clark said that he'd been called on September 11 and urged to link Baghdad to the terror attacks, but declined to do so because of a lack of evidence.

Here is a transcript of the exchange:

CLARK: "There was a concerted effort during the fall of 2001, starting immediately after 9/11, to pin 9/11 and the terrorism problem on Saddam Hussein."

RUSSERT: "By who? Who did that?"

CLARK: "Well, it came from the White House, it came from people around the White House. It came from all over. I got a call on 9/11. I was on CNN, and I got a call at my home saying, 'You got to say this is connected. This is state-sponsored terrorism. This has to be connected to Saddam Hussein.' I said, 'But--I'm willing to say it, but what's your evidence?' And I never got any evidence."

Clark's assertion corroborates a little-noted CBS Evening News story that aired on September 4, 2002. As correspondent David Martin reported: "Barely five hours after American Airlines Flight 77 plowed into the Pentagon, the secretary of defense was telling his aides to start thinking about striking Iraq, even though there was no evidence linking Saddam Hussein to the attacks." According to CBS, a Pentagon aide's notes from that day quote Rumsfeld asking for the "best info fast" to "judge whether good enough to hit SH at the same time, not only UBL." (The initials SH and UBL stand for Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.) The notes then quote Rumsfeld as demanding, ominously, that the administration's response "go massive...sweep it all up, things related and not."
More.....


Here's that original CBS Story....wonder who the "sources" were???

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/04/september11/m...
Plans For Iraq Attack Began On 9/11
WASHINGTON, Sept. 4, 2002

(CBS) CBS News has learned that barely five hours after American Airlines Flight 77 plowed into the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld was telling his aides to come up with plans for striking Iraq — even though there was no evidence linking Saddam Hussein to the attacks.

That's according to notes taken by aides who were with Rumsfeld in the National Military Command Center on Sept. 11 – notes that show exactly where the road toward war with Iraq began, reports CBS News National Security Correspondent David Martin.

<snip>

With the intelligence all pointing toward bin Laden, Rumsfeld ordered the military to begin working on strike plans. And at 2:40 p.m., the notes quote Rumsfeld as saying he wanted "best info fast. Judge whether good enough hit S.H." – meaning Saddam Hussein – "at same time. Not only UBL" – the initials used to identify Osama bin Laden.

Now, nearly one year later, there is still very little evidence Iraq was involved in the Sept. 11 attacks. But if these notes are accurate, that didn't matter to Rumsfeld.

"Go massive," the notes quote him as saying. "Sweep it all up. Things related and not."<more>

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2724323
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
20. K&R Clark has been right since 911. He's a great party asset and
should be included on the ticket or in the next administration.

:patriot: Clark
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DaveT Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. Winning Wars
"Winning" a war that you start is a problematical concept.

Germany won its wars against Poland, France, The Netherlands, Belgium, Greece and Norway. After these wars were over, German troops had the run of the country and the local "government" became subservient. Yet this state of affairs only lasted a few years.

The US won its war against Iraq. American troops have no fear of Saddam's troops and have the run of the country, although there are some other kinds of danger still afoot. Just as in the cases of the German occupied countries, defeating the national army does not necessarily mean that you can command the obedience of the entire population.

The US never won the war in Vietnam, because we were defending a government rather than trying to dislodge an established regime. We could have captured Hanoi, at a terrible price -- and that would have been a victory such as enjoyed by Hitler at Warsaw and Paris. But such a development would not have ended the challenge to the South Vietnamese government; nor would our Green Zone in Hanoi have been any more secure than the one we have in Baghdad today.

We can pulverize any plot of land on earth and we can obliterate any massed army that is foolish enough to take the field against us -- even the Chinese. Our military technology is perfect for defending ourselves from any other country that might dare to invade the USA. No one in the world stands a chance against us.

But this "power" is so useless for wars that we start. It just gets us into a lot of trouble that always ends badly.


Modern history suggests that it is very, very difficult, but not quite impossible to conquer a people -- the USA conquered the Phillipines a century ago and the Soviets managed to define politics in Eastern Europe for almost half a century. But far more often, an alien army occupying a country gets its ass kicked eventually.

The folly of the current line, here attributed by Clark to the Pentagon, is the running assuption that the locals in all these countries will abide by the results of the wars.

Not bloody likely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. Well Wes, thanks for the heads up and lets do nothing about it.
I told you so or I knew about it after the implementation
means jackshit!

Talk is cheap! and Thanks for keeping these assholes in power!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Read my post......
Edited on Mon Jul-24-06 08:30 PM by FrenchieCat
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-24-06 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. Some Observations
Edited on Mon Jul-24-06 09:56 PM by Dinger
I have this book, and it is autographed, not that has anything to do ith anything. This might be a minor mistake, but this comment is not on page 130 in the book I have. In fact, I can't find it at all:

"I left the Pentagon that afternoon deeply concerned."


I wonder why that comment was put there. I just don't see it in the book. I have to admit I have only read the book in sections (It is HARD to find the time to read!), but I will read it, yes, as a Wes supporter, but with an open mind too. I would imagine that Weds did leave the Pentagon concerned, probably because he did not see attacking a state as a very good idea in fighting terrorism. He says in his book that terrorism does not simply come from states (P. 130). As I posted a day or so ago, I am ignorant on the history of crisis in the Middle East. I was given some good ideas in that thread, and I plan to seek them out and learn what I can. I really don't know why Wes would have kept this from anyone, if indeed he did, but he has always put the needs of this country before his own. Anyway, that's my two cents.



Respectfully (Still with a LOT to learn),


Dinger
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. That statement you highlighted is on page 132.
Also in the same paragraph:

"I left the Pentagon that afternoon deeply concerned. I hoped the officer was wrong, or that whoever was pushing this would amend his approach."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. O.K., I Found It. Thanks (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
27. And listen to Clark on the ME crisis......
as he sits down to get the Fox folks straight.

Clark is great at this!

Give him a little kudos, cause he damn well deserves it! :toast:

From today's show...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N79-4cyqfl0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Enewshounds%2Eus%2F2006%2F07%2F24%2Ffox%5Fundercuts%5Fwesley%5Fclarks%5Fsane%5Fwords%2Ephp

and a review from NewsHound....


Fox Undercuts Wesley Clark's Sane Words
Reported by Judy - July 24, 2006 - 9 comments
Former NATO Commander Gen. Wesley Clark provided a few minutes of sanity on Fox News Monday (July 24, 2006), but the hosts of "Dayside" did their best to undermine him while he spoke and then followed Clark's appearance with a blood-thirsty guest of the type that has dominated Fox News coverage of the crisis along the Israeli-Lebanese border.

Clark, who is a Fox News military analyst, has been a rare guest on "Dayside." The "Dayside" crew is unlikely to invite him back after Clark delivered an articulate, well-thought-out appeal for an approach to the Israeli-Lebanese crisis that reduces civilian casualties, avoids direct U.S. ground troop involvement, and tries to permanently remove Hezbollah from the area along Isral's border. Clark was callling for a NATO force of 10,000 non-U.S. troops that would have the authority to police the area.

Clark followed Dan Gillerman, Israeli ambassador to the U.N., who has almost been a regular on the show since the fighting started. This time, Gillerman pushed the "World War III" rhetoric and had the "Dayside" audience in a fighting mood by the time Clark arrived.

While Gillerman said the U.S. should isolate Syria and Iran, Clark said isolation is the wrong strategy for the U.S. (as opposed to Israel) because it causes the U.S. to lose influence on the countries. When a member of the audience asked if the U.S. was considered a serious threat by Syria and Iran after the Iraq war and the lack of public support for it, Clark said those countries do still fear American power, even if operations in Iraq have not made the U.S. look stronger or given the U.S. more influence in the region.

"I see some of our audience shaking their heads. They don’t agree with you," said Huddy, although the camera did not specifically show that. Then she specifically asked for a question or a comment from someone who wanted to disagree with the general. Was she deliberately trying to undermine Clark?

Instead, the question had to do with Gillerman's claim that World War III is upon us. Clark rejected the World War III view of the conflict, and instead sad it is a strategic opportunity for the U.S. to move Hezbollah from that region "if we play our cards right" by sending in a NATO force quickly with a broad enough mandate to accomplish it.

Later, a member of the audience challenged Clark and said she agree with Gillerman that the world is in World War III. "We simply don't appreciate or fear the threat we have from radical Islam. They want to destroy us," she said.

Clark was well-prepared to respond. " I think we have to be careful of labeling things World War III," he said. "We're not in the same position of Israel. ...We don't want to get drawn into a head-to-head conflict if we can avoid it. That's why we should be talking to people."

Huddy did her dirty work again, interrupting Clark, "Can we talk to people like Syria and Iran? How?"

"Yes you can," insisted Clark. "And here’s the thing. You cannot occupy those countries, you cannot simply declare World War III unless you want to raise an army of 12 millon men and march into the Middle East and occupy it, and we’ve already seen the example of Iraq. This is very, very difficult. So this is not like World War II with Germany and Japan. This is entirely different. We should use the military sparingly, as a last resort."

Again Huddy, who rarely challenges a conservative guest, asked Clark how the U.S. could "have diplomacy ... with countries like Syria and Iran. ... These are countries that have been on the record saying let's destroy the United States."

"If you agree with people, the dipolomacy is different. When you don’t agree with people, it’s even more important to talk, to box them in, to understand what they want, to help them see the world differently. Keep the force in reserve,. Otherwise, you’re just going to end up raising a 10-million man army to invade the Middle East and that’s something we don’t want the United States to do and I don’t think your viewers want all their children to spend the rest of their lives in uniform."

After he finished, a woman said, "I disagree with the general, and I agree with Juliet. We’re dealing with people that want to kill us. It's like if somebody's holding a gun to you how can you just talk to them?"

Clark again was ready with a response. "They’re not holding a gun to our heads," he said. "We are there. It’s our military that’s in Iraq. It’s the Israelis that are there with the most powerful vorce in the region. Iran has no way of reaching us except through Hezbollah terrorists. We’re tracking those people in the United States. I’m not saying there’s no threat, but I’m saying don’t make the mistake of thinking that this is a head-on conflict like Germany and the United States in World War II. It’s not there."

It was a brief interlude of intelligent discussion. After a break, "Dayside" went to Capt. Chuck Nash, a retired Navy captain, who helped stir up the audience's taste for blood.

"We are being international chumps if we think we can go in and talk to these people," he said. Later, he added that Saddam's WMD's could be in Lebanon.

Maybe that explains why Nash never made it past captain.
http://www.newshounds.us/2006/07/24/fox_undercuts_wesley_clarks_sane_words.php


and last but not least....."It's time to bring Clark on!"
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/24/92929/9761

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-25-06 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Kudos & More!
Jeez, to think that he could have been President the last 5 1/2 years. Things could be so different . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 05th 2024, 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC