Shit. An Army recruiter just called for my daughter

[WestHoustonDem]

She introduced herself as a representative of my daughter's school, but I asked her in what capacity. I told her that she did not have my permission to speak to my daughter and to please not call again.

She's working on her CO letter now.

I know I did the right thing, but I'm rattled.

[Horse with no Name]

1. A representative of the school?

By what stretch of the imagination does she represent your daughter's school?

[WestHoustonDem]

2. Exactly. I will call the school district tomorrow and complain. n/t

[texastoast]

15. HISD? n/t

[WestHoustonDem]

18. SBISD n/t

[Samurai_Writer]

60. My son graduated from Spring Woods HS in 2000

We lived in Spring Branch for several years. I'm so glad he got out of school before the heavy recruiting started. Good luck to your daughter on her CO status.

[ceile]

70. I'm a Straftford grad and I'm not all that surprised.

Such an upper middle class area is mostly RW. But then again, I haven't been to my old stomping grounds in about 10 years.

[WestHoustonDem]

77. Yeah, she's at Stratford. And she takes classes at the

Guthrie center and they really target them.

[arcane1]

3. the lying bastards

what's next??

[Gman]

4. They're worse than used car salesmen

You can't believe a word they say.

[ComerPerro]

51. "We can get you into a program where you will fly helicopters.

And we promise you won't have to go to Iraq.

[Gman]

85. 1) I'll still respect you in the morning

2) Baby, if you do that I promise I won't....

3) We promise you won't have to go to Iraq.

[Xipe Totec]

5. Next time tell them that, out of respect,

your daughter is waiting for the Bush twins to sign up first, since she doesn't want to steal their thunder...

[lostnfound]

63. That's hysterical! I love it. nt

[LeftCoast]

6. Wouldn't lying like that be grounds for disciplinary action?

Just a thought...

[TechBear_Seattle]

11. Since when...

Since when have military recruiters been disciplined for lying to potential recruits, or otherwise stretching, twisting or fabricating the truth to get access to potential recruits?

Wake up and smell the napalm, LeftCoast. :hi:

[LeftCoast]

13. D'oh! You're right.

I don't know what I was thinking!

LOL

:hi:

[benburch]

7. Next time they call..

...tell them she's dead.

[shadowknows69]

9. Holy shit BB

that's actually a great idea.

[Lost-in-FL]

14. Remember the Don't ask don't tell policy?

Just say she's Gay, and a very active one. That will solve the problem at least for a bit.

[bdamomma]

45. tell them because of her religious beliefs she does not believe in

killing innocent people.

[texastoast]

16. No.

No sense putting that energy out there.

[Hekate]

24. I have to agree with you on that. nt

[shadowknows69]

43. You guys are right of course

bad magician shadow bad!

[Ilsa]

25. I'm with Texas Toast on this one. You really don't need any

bad vibes sitting out there calling for attention. These sorts of misdirection aways bother me.

[TechBear_Seattle]

17. I got heavy harassment from recruiters when I graduated HS 20 years ago

A recruiter started calling me about halfway through my senior year, about the same time (coincidence?) my college boards showed above average scores but nothing good enough to automatically guarantee a scholarship. After several weeks of frequent phone calls and my mother telling him to stop calling, I ended up telling him that I had become a Quaker and thus military service would be a direct violation of my religious beliefs. And even then, I had to tell him several times to get him to believe it.

[warrens]

61. I told the recruiter back then about being in SDS

And how much I wanted to serve so I could learn to build bombs and blow shit up. They stopped calling.

[TechBear_Seattle]

83. A friend of mine recommended I try that

But parts to "Alice's Restaurant" kept going through my mind...


I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I wanna kill. I wanna kill! I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth! Eat dead, burnt bodies! I mean: Kill. Kill!"

And I started jumpin' up and down, yellin' "KILL! KILL!" and he started jumpin' up and down with me, and we was both jumpin' up and down, yellin', "KILL! KILL! KILL! KILL!" and the sergeant came over, pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said "You're our boy".

http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/parton/2/alice.html#

[BR_Parkway]

57. Or in the bedroom with her girlfriend

[Sydnie]

8. I was the first time they called for my son too

but you did good. I told them they didn't have my permission to speak to him before he turned 18. Now he tells them himself. They get more aggressive when they are over 18.

[INdemo]

10. I believe you have a lawsuit in order or

filing criminal charges..That recruiter was misrepresenting herself

[cornermouse]

12. If she calls back, politely tell her to drop dead and hang up.

[Mendocino]

19. If they call my house...

I'll just say we're on the national do-not-call list, don't try calling again and threaten to contact the FTC. Probably won't work, but hey, it'll feel good.

[WestHoustonDem]

21. That only applies to for-profit corporations unfortunately. n/t

[ourbluenation]

20. Is she 18? If not you have to tell the school to remove her from the

list that was made available to the recruiters via No Child Left Behind. There's a website that has a form letter you can download to send to the school.

http://www.militaryfreezone.org/index.html

[WestHoustonDem]

23. The thing is, I called last year and they told me if she wasn't

in the directory, she wouldn't get calls. So I kept her out of the directory. They will have an earful from me tomorrow.

[Hekate]

27. Wow. That was such a breathtaking lie.

The school directory has nothing at all to do with it. The school reports personal info to the DOD per No Child Left Behind -- see my other post for details. Someone at the school is seriously misinformed.

Hekate

[ourbluenation]

30. But how is she NOT in the directory in the first place? With this stupid

legilsation YOU have the burdon of telling the school to take her off the list. Go to that website I listed above - they have a form letter you can use. I did it, no problemos.

[WestHoustonDem]

31. I signed the form last year withdrawing my permission for her

to be listed.

[ourbluenation]

32. well hot damn - somebody needs to explain this then....

go get em momma!

[Hekate]

22. Call the district & the principal & find out how parents are notified that

No Child Left Behind mandates their children's personal info be sent to the DOD. It is a mandate -- schools will actually lose federal funds unless they comply.

If they are like most, the notification comes in a thick packet of other back-to-school info, easily overlooked. Our district had a single sheet that asked the parents to sign: "Do you want your child's info to be given to colleges/military recruiters? Yes/No" In other words, colleges and military recruiters are lumped together.

Our local Vets for Peace worked together with the Conscientious Objectors and Supporters to make a presentation to the school board (we were the last agenda item, and came on about 10:30 at night) about parental notification and the fact that the law allows parents/students an out IF they put it in writing every year. The Board authorized a renotification and over 200 opt-out letters came back. On the first go-round with the big packet, there were none.

I highly recommend you do this as an individual, then get a committee together to make sure parents and students actually understand what is at stake here. Recruiters are allowed free access to campuses, not just on career day, but almost any day.

As our VFP members pointed out to the school board, military service is the only career where you are guaranteed a large number of "workers" will be killed or maimed permanently. The VFP and COS are not allowed such access -- they can be come only at the invitation of individual teachers of classes where the topic might be "relevant" such as civics, history, or political science. They continue to work on this.

Good luck. This is scary.

Hekate

[JuniperLea]

26. I know how you feel

My daughter and her high school chums have been stalked by a recruiter for the past three years. No matter how blunt or down right nasty we are to this scum bag, he always calls back. It was pretty scary the first few times. When things hit close to home...

[stevedeshazer]

28. Your response was perfect

They started calling our son when he turned 17. He put them off at first. Soon enough, the recruiter made the mistake of calling when his mom was home.

Ms. DeShazer's response was a bit saltier than yours, but the same in essence.

They didn't call back. :) I'll just leave it at that.

[WestHoustonDem]

29. Thanks. What a coincidence punk turned 17 on Friday.

I won't be so polite if it happens again.

[AspenRose]

33. You can go here too

http://www.themmob.org/

They have a link to the Leave My Child Alone thing, plus other good stuff

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

34. What is a "CO" letter?

[WestHoustonDem]

35. Conscientious Objector n/t

[MessiahRp]

65. So you're a CO if you aren't interested in joining the military now?

I thought that was reserved for wanting out of the draft.

Rp

[WestHoustonDem]

66. It's important to establish CO status before a draft is instituted

You have a lot better chance with it then.

[MessiahRp]

68. Well the way things are going, where do I sign up (to be a CO)?

Who knows what could happen next with these idiots.

Rp

[WestHoustonDem]

72. Start here

http://www.objector.org/coclaim.html

[akushuki]

84. I'm 18 and I would never sign up for CO status if a draft started.

I wouldn't flee to Canada or any other country.


I would practice DRAFT RESISTANCE , I would burn my draft card on camera in front of the Pentagon, I would get on buses to draft board meetings and troll, and I would clog the jail system if need be.

Shut down the government's capacity to jail its citizens, shut down the trial process, shut down America until it returned to what it should be.

Nothing against your daughter or anyone else who signs up for CO status, but I couldn't go CO and legitimize the process. I couldn't 'dodge'. By going CO the you agree that the government has the power to draft you for an unjust war. I would actively resist the government through Civil Disobedience no matter what the consequence. It an honour thing for me, I can't play along if the rules are wrong. If a draft is reinstated, I'll be one of the first burning my card.

[caligirl]

36. Did she mean the school was in her territory? If not you can

complain to the captain in charge of that recruiter, it may not help but the captain writes the fitness reports of the sargents. The officers are who you have to get to to get them to enforce the rules.

DOD policy is your aloud to opt out, thats what we did when our youngest son was 15 or 16. On the other hand once when they called here, I told the sargent if he wanted to speak to our oldest son, 2000-2001, he would have to go through their dad, Lieutenant Colonel -----------, but otherwise they were not to call again. We never heard from them again, until the West Point recruiter started calling a year ago, then I called him and explained that unless the Army had a new health plan for diabetics he should remove our son from his list. No problems since.

[Lisa0825]

37. Happy Fucking Birthday, eh?

It sounds to me like the 17th birthday means something... are they allowed to call a child before age 17? I bet her name popped up as a potential recruit when she had her birthday, and it was NO coincidence.

I know you want to play mother lion here and protect your baby, but you've got a STRONG, INTELLIGENT young woman now, and she'll make you proud by standing up for herself. Stand there with her and make your objections known LOUDLY to the school, but I think it means a lot that she is drafting her own CO letter.

I also think SHE should write a letter to the editor on the subject.

[MoseyWalker]

38. My son

though he graduated in May, has still been getting harassment from these fuckers. He swears to me that he isn't listening, but all, and I mean all, of his friends took the sign up money and ran.

It's a constant battle, even after they graduate. The bastards still have their address and phone numbers, and will be like the call center that has only your number in their data base.

[phylny]

39. My daughter was called in the spring.

She's a high school senior now, and at the end of her junior year, we'd gone to a local college fair at West Point (many public and private colleges and universities were in attendance.)

Soon after that, she said the calls started.

My daughter's strategy? She acted like a "dumb teen," surfed the web when they were trying to talk to her, saying a lot of, "What?"s and "Idunno"s.

She said she sorta enjoyed being purposefully dumb :)

I'm downloading forms for my daughters' high school right now.

[Biernuts]

40. What does your daughter want? If she's old enough to make

her own choice on reproductive choices, why can't SHE tell them to get lost, or come on over. Isn't it HER choice who she talks to?

[WestHoustonDem]

41. Actually, she's told me before she's got no interest in talking

to a recruiter. But her phone skills are limited and had asked me a long time ago to do I would exactly what I did today if a recruiter called. Not because she doesn't have a mind of her own, but because it's scary to her. If you'd met her, you'd know that isn't the question.

[Lisa0825]

44. meow

Do you make a habit of second-guessing the parenting choices of others, or is this a special occasion?

I know her daughter, and I know her opinions of this manufactured war. I also know that while she's got a strong mind, she's also on the quiet side, and she is YOUNG and isn't as experienced at dealing with slimey bastards like recruiters. WHD did the right thing in standing up for her daughter, and I don't think it's anyone else's place to question that.

[Biernuts]

47. Just wanted to see where we stand in case the abortion issue ever

comes up. It's counterintuitive to say that we vest our daughters with the right to make pregnancy decisions without parental consent or notification; but, that parents can decide who can speak to her.

In any case, if she's under 18, she cannot legally enlist without parental consent, regardless of what she wants.

[WestHoustonDem]

52. Let me make this abundantly clear

My daughter chose not to speak to a military recruiter.. The caller ID said US Govt and she handed the phone to me. I am taking advantage of my rights as a parent to facilitate that for her.

There is a big difference between being protective and being controlling. I think Lisa can confirm that I am the former and not the latter when it comes to my daughter.

Not that I have to answer to you or anyone else, but if she comes up pregnant at any age, the choice will be hers. I will be pissed as hell if she gets pregnant because I've made it abundantly clear that I will make sure she has access to contraception when she is ready. But I will support her choice should that become necessary.

[Lisa0825]

54. Do you have a teenager Biernuts?

Do you understand the line a parent walks between still needing to provide protection, and yet letting the child explore more freedom? There is a HUGE difference between allowing a recruiter to snatch your child to go fight an illegal and immoral war, and allowing your child to make her own decisions about her reproductive future. Besides that, believe me, I know them both very well, and they have a VERY open and honest relationship. WHD knows exactly where her daughter stands on the war, and her daughter understands that her mother will be there to support her if she ever has to make a decision about anything, including her reproductive choices.

These are the kinds of things that one just can't ASSUME about someone on a message board. It was a huge leap for you to go from not allowing a recruiter to speak to her, to what if she gets pregnant. Apples and oranges would be an understatement.

And frankly, I think the point of your posts was more to be contrary than it was to express a legitimate POV.

[elehhhhna]

58. biernuts, can't you READ?

[Pacifist Patriot]

62. And this would be your business why?

The freedom to choice is related to our right to privacy.

[zcflint09]

42. Total VULTURES

When I was working in Phoenix at a furniture store in the back office, the "recruiters" came in for whatever reason. Acted like they were looking at furniture but whenever one of us would leave for lunch they'd troll in the parking lot trying to get us to come to an "appointment" to see if the military may "fit our future plans". I politley told them to leave property, especally since it appeared they were disrupting our customers.

[Irreverend IX]

46. The absolute best response...

Is to tell them she has some chronic, crippling medical condition, like cystic fibrosis or blindness. That'll shut them down in a heartbeat. When I got a call from a recruiter in high school, I acted interested and then fed him some on-the-fly bullshit about how I had a blood pressure condition that I had to take medication for. He thanked me for my time and hung up. Theoretically athsma and other minor conditions should also keep you out, but with the military so desperate for new blood you should probably invent a fairly serious (but believable for a girl who attends a public high school) condition.

[Iowa]

79. Nah, I wouldn't do that...

With insurance companies cherry-picking, and corporations and the government increasingly sharing private information, you don't want your kid to be tagged with bogus health conditions in some government database.

Recruiters are sleazebag telemarketers seeking cannon fodder to serve the plutocracy. There's no need to fabricate some story, make up excuses, cringe, hide, cower, explain, or even hear them out. Just tell them to fu*k off, tell them to never call again, and be done with it. And if they call again, just treat them like the cockroaches they are.

[noonwitch]

48. It's wrong for them to misrepresent themselves, but not for them to call

It's your right to tell them they can't talk to your daughter, but it's hardly offensive in and of itself that a recruiter would call and express interest. Even if your kid talked to one, it sounds like she has no intention of enlisting, anyways, so I wouldn't overly worry about it.

[WestHoustonDem]

49. Just spoke to the school principal

She was very disturbed that the recruiter said she was calling from the high school. My daughter's personal information is flagged as restricted, but the catch is that the form restricting military contact also restricts colleges and I probably didn't read it correctly. She will find out if I can restrict military, but not colleges and call me back.

[otohara]

69. Is This What The Principal

was talking about: Frequently Asked Questions Military Recruiter Access

1.What are the recent changes made by Congress concerning military recruitment of high school students?

Congress has passed two major pieces of legislation that generally require districts receiving assistance under ESEA to give military recruiters the same access to secondary school students as they provide to postsecondary institutions or to prospective employers. Districts are also generally required to provide students' names, addresses, and telephone listings to military recruiters, when requested.

more
http://www.haldaneschool.org/MilitaryOptOut.htm

Is your daughter planning to go to a postsecondary school or 4 year college?

[WestHoustonDem]

73. Yup. She wants to go to a 4 year school, but knows exactly

where she wants to go, so not getting calls from random colleges is acceptable.

[otohara]

75. Don't Worry Then

but what sucks about this provision, is kids who can't afford to go to a 4 year college are now targets, because they are only going to get a postsecondary education or "training".

[Catherine Vincent]

50. They must be desperate. They're calling students now?

In the past, they would have a booth on career day at the school and let the students come to them.

[AngryOldDem]

53. I'm actually looking forward to the first call

It's been awhile since I've chewed a little ass.

My daughter, though, has already made a fool of the Army recruiter at her school, so I'm also confident that she could handle a recruiter's call with no help whatsoever from Mom.

[meganmonkey]

55. A former colleague's kid started getting calls from them

(This was back in 2000 or 2001, I think)

He finally said "yes" to their offer to send info and some free ARMY tube socks.

When he got the socks, he cut off the top half where it said ARMY and mailed that part back to them.

They stopped calling. (Granted, that was before all the war. I am sure they don't give up that easily anymore.)

Smart kid. Wonder if he still wears those socks?

:)

[newportdadde]

56. Why the drama? Just have your daughter say "I'm not interested".

As adult she will probably have to get use to saying that quite a bit as people try to get us to buy products/services.

My mother and father never talked to the recruiter just handed me the phone, I was expected to deal with it. As I did many times that year I just politely told them I was not interested and hung up.

It might suprise you but most of the recruiters hate the job too. My brother-in-law had to do it for a year. He is a career officer and it was the worst assignment he ever had and that includes spending a year in Korea away from young babies and two tours(so far) in Iraq.

Every day they would get chewed out about quotas then spend all day driving around getting home late to the family etc. Guy gained a bunch of weight from all the drive through meals on the road. He was actually happy to transfer out after his required year was up even though he knew he was heading to Iraq.

So remember just politely say you aren't interested and hang up.

[Pacifist Patriot]

59. While I'm a bulldog now, that wouldn't have worked for me at 16-17.

I was a mouse on the phone and a recruiter, even a meek one, could have walked all over me. I too would have asked my parents to screen such calls. Every person and family is different. Apparently this is what works for them. It's not our place to tell them how to do it differently.

And however much recruiters hate their jobs (I too know from personal experience how much they detest it), that's never an excuse for lying about who you are. The big deal in my opinion is the recruiter equivocating..okay, lying outright..about her relationship to the girl. She was NOT a representative of the girl's school if she was a military recruiter.

[WestHoustonDem]

64. Why the drama? I've heard and read way too many horror

stories about military recruiters and their tactics. Where have you been?

[mike923]

67. I've got a number of friends in the military...

and by and large, they are happy they made that their career, and live what i would consider fulfilled lives.

[mia]

71. My son feels that way.

He's out now, but counts his military experience as something that has given him confidence in the business world.

[tbyg52]

92. I agree, but...

...not in the present circumstances. There's a difference between defending your country and defending this plutocracy. I'm not saying we've not had bad governments and unjustified wars before, but I am saying that this is, IMO, the absolute worst time in US history.

[WestHoustonDem]

74. And that's fine for them. But my daughter wants no part

of the military and if I can prevent them from pressuring her, that's what I'm going to do.

[mike923]

76. I guess i don't understand...

if your daughter doesn't have any interest, what has you concerned?

[WestHoustonDem]

78. What has me concerned is all of the stories I've read about

military recruiters harassing and using trickery to get naive kids to sign up. Check out this article from last year: http://www.workingforchange.com/lmcablog/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=C673958B-0F12-56E7-01F22C95F35CBA45

[Lisa0825]

80. There was a recent story locally about

a young woman who ended up in JAIL as a DESERTER because she expressed initial interest, but then changed her mind and told the recruiter no thanks, but she was still somehow enlisted, and didn't even know it until they came to arrest her for failing to report.

edited to add:

http://www.txcn.com/sharedcontent/dws/txcn/houston/stories/khou060719_cd_armylady10.37ab40e.html

The story starts at a Pasadena-area recruiting station where in 2001, she agreed to what’s called the “Army Delayed Entrance Program”.

She was interested in the military because it would pay her way through college. But Collura changed her mind.

Before she graduated from Deer Park High, she said she called the recruiter and he informed her that she didn’t have to go. She went on with her life, got married and had a child..

But in 2002 she was arrested for being AWOL. She went to jail.

The matter was eventually cleared up, or so she thought.

Four years later, Collura received a visit from two Pasadena police officers.

That was Monday night. Collura works at a Men’s Wearhouse as an operations manager and the two officers came in. She identified herself and they took her into custody.

She was charged with desertion and she is being held without bond. To say the least, she is not doing well.

[yellerpup]

81. Eeeeewww!

Sleazy! Stop the war and kill the draft. I'm feeling a chill wind from the past.

[samsingh]

82. you absolutely did the right thing.

[TexasThoughtCriminal]

86. POD is way too talented to end up cannon fodder

Bravo to you, you did the right thing. Firm without being offensive.

[WestHoustonDem]

89. Thanks TTC!

:hug:

[flyarm]

87. get a coaches whistle..and next time they call.and they will...

blow it like your life depends on it!!

actually your daughters life will depend on it!!

i have a large internet group and many of the parents have had to deal with many many calls even abusive calls ..

i have told them all to get a good metal whistle..it has worked!! the repeat calls stopped!

fly

[WestHoustonDem]

90. Ironically, I have a rape whistle on my key chain that I got at

a health fair from a military booth. LOL

[Voltaire99]

88. Your natural reaction shows why a draft would be a good thing.

It's far too easy for imperial politicians like Hillary or Bush to speak of sending "volunteer" troops into war.

Not so with the children of parents who know better. And that's why we need a draft: to incur the concern and rage of parents like yourself.

Until such a day there'll be very little to curb the behavior of our leaders. They'll go on and on wasting the lives of those who have no economic choice but "service," and no one to guide them in writing CO letters.

[bedazzled]

91. if they call my son i'll put 'em on hold - then go watch t.v.!

hopefully after a few wasted 15 minute intervals, they'll give up calling.

this will also keep them from calling other victims in the meantime!