Democratic Party FINALLY admits it.....

[garybeck]

But what are they going to do about it?




Did anyone else notice this?

As of 7/14, the Democratic Party's own website now says "Diebold optical-scan and touch-screen (DRE) machines have been proven to be vulnerable to tampering"

(note, this new page on their site says more than just that; take a lookie here:

http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/07/dnc_voting_righ.php )


I think this is a significant development, as the Democratic Party has been largely ignoring this issue until now, and this is definitely the first time I've seen them admit that even the optical scan machines are a problem. In fact just a few weeks ago Howard Dean said the optical scan machines are safe. Now that they realize there's a problem, and it is a huge problem, the question is, are they going to try to do something about it? And if so, what?

Will the Party go into an election this Fall, knowing the machines are hackable and riggable, and just hope for the best? I hope not.

But time is running out and it's time for the Dems to step to the plate. They can't wait until the day after election day to decide what to do. They have to be proactive, devise a plan to ensure election integrity, and at the same time, run their campaigns.

If I see signs that the Dems are going to at least TRY to do something about this, I for one am FULL of energy to support them. I was beginning to lose hope in the Dems because of their unwillingness to deal with the e-voting problem. But now I think there's a tiny light of hope, shown by statements on their own website.

[fooj]

1. Yep! Saw that the day it was posted.

Good news to be sure.

[babylonsister]

2. MUSIC TO MY EARS!!!! THANK YOU! NT

[EFerrari]

3. kick

:kick:

[Heidi]

4. Recommended.

I have a friend who is recommending that _everyone_ request a paper absentee ballot. :thumbsup:

[garybeck]

7. absentee ballots...

are often scanned into the same machines that are hackable and riggable.

[robinlynne]

22. not a good idea.

in addition to being counted by diebold machines (scanners) there is no way to even know if they are counted. At least in the precinct you knwop how many voters were there and from which party. not with absentee.

[jerry611]

5. A bit late now...

They arn't talking about 2004 or even this year. They are looking at preventing problems in 2008.

It's too close to the election to do anything about it this year.

[babylonsister]

6. Awareness is a good thing. I can't make excuses for any

ineptitude, but awareness works at this point.

[JanusAscending]

8. Except "for everyone to ask for absentee ballots"

as in previous post to yours? Can this work, or will they find a way to stuff them in the trash!?? They spoke of election monitors at certain precincts that have questionable history in re to "fair elections" on the floor of the Senate today !!

[garybeck]

10. absentee ballots

are better than DRE machines with no paper trail, but they are often fed into the same optical scan machines that are hackable and riggable and used to count the regular ballots.

[kster]

13. I'm sorry, I don't get this statement

"but they are often fed into the same optical scan machines that are hackable and riggable and used to count the regular ballots"

So should we use the machines anyway or should we vote absentee, because if we go in person to vote, we are doing most of their work for them by scanning them into the hackable and riggable machines, If we vote absentee they have to do all the work, to rig the election.

Great thread........... K&R

[garybeck]

14. basically

what I'm trying to say is that absentee voting is not a solution. there are some good reasons to do it, but it should not be seen as a solution to the problem. I fear that people will be falsly convinced that voting absentee will help assure their vote is counted properly, when in fact it won't in most cases. in fact it is virtually the same thing as voting on an optical scan machine on election day. the difference that they feed the ballot into the machine is emotional and political, but it is not technical. Technically voting absentee is not a solution.

I have heard the discussions about how voting absentee could raise awareness, and I agree that it could raise awareness, and be seen as a "protest." However, I'm concerned that it will raise the wrong kind of awareness, giving the false idea that absentee voting is more secure or less prone to rigging and tampering. If we are going to put our efforts into a huge movement to do something, that would be great, but I'm just not sure this is it.

The only way to really look at this is to consider each voting district individually and whether the absentee votes are counted by hand or by opscan. Or what are the national totals? I would say that if a vast majority of absentee votes are counted by hand (not by scanners) then I would support a nationwide effort to vote absentee but if most are counted by optical scanners with proprietary software, I don't see the benefit (even though some folks have tried to convince me of it).

[robinlynne]

23. I agree with everything you said. Ready for some action! nt

[garybeck]

9. maybe not too late

if you look at what is happening in San Diego right now, it could be a precursor of things to come this fall...

[Zan_of_Texas]

31. It's not too late.

Remember how fast Congress acted about a nearly-dead woman, Terry Shiavo?

Our democracy is on life support, and if they wanted to, they could act to keep it alive.

Emergency measure, just like the one advocated by Voters Unite 2 years ago -- hand count paper ballots IN THE PRECINCTS for the top federal races -- each person is voting for one US House of Representatives, and may be voting for one US Senate seat. So, maximum of two federal races to count, paper, by hand.

It's not a matter of whether it can be done. It's a matter of the political system dragging its feet, stonewalling, obfuscating, distracting, and playing The-Incumbent-Always-Wins game.

We already know what happens when an unelected president is in office. It would be refreshing to have an ELECTED House of Representatives, at least.

[EFerrari]

11. kick.

[madeline_con]

12. Was the 2004 Election Stolen? By Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Was the 2004 Election Stolen?
Republicans prevented more than 350,000 voters in Ohio from casting ballots or having their votes counted -- enough to have put John Kerry in the White House. BY ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.


http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/print

[autorank]

15. Now THAT IS my Democratic Party! Thank you Dr. Dean.

kpete, bless her heart, keeps finding Dean statements saying that the machines are all garbage, unreliable. He's Kirking out on a regular basis.

Let Dean be Dean

I'll bet he's got some people on it. Time for them to wake up, smell the coffee. Yep, it's all real.

Dean can do more for election reform than anyone to date by "freezing" the nonsense through a tough statement:

"We've had two presidential elections and many local and state elections where electronic voting was just pathetic. We have not failed to notice that the "errors" are almost always in the direction of the Republicans. The close ones are almost always in the direction of the Republicans. This is our notice: no more screw ups, no more screwing Democrats. We've had enough. If you think we're kidding, give us a try in 11/06. You won't like the results."

That would scare the vendors and cause a major scaling back of their current game plan.

[blm]

26. And here's Kerry and Boxer both mentioning it on Senate floor yesterday -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1698593&mesg_id=1698593

The timing couldn't just be coincidence - something more must be brewing.

[autorank]

30. I think they read RFK Jr.s article;)

You know the one where he said the @%@#ing 2004 election was stolen...or maybe the finally took a look at the crushing defeat the election fraud deniers took every time they tried to discredit the 2004 exit polls WHICH DEMONSTRATED KERRY WON ... or maybe the talked to Max Cleland who about three months ago lambasted Diebold for screwing up his election and Barnes' in 2002...or maybe they took a look at the resumes of people who write code for some of the voting machines...or maybe they paid attention to centralized registration voter databases, a scourge on a free society but a boon to election fraud (something we don't do enough with, imho)... or maybe they finally got serious about the part of Diebold and ESS business devoted to "tabulation"...or maybe they just decided they didn't want to get totally screwed in 2006. I hope they do a good job in choosing an action, better than they did when the Help America Vote Act was passed with bipartisan sponsors.

Thank you to all the Congressional staffers who have pushed this reality in front of their bosses.

[Kurovski]

16. Kick

:kick:

[burythehatchet]

17. How sad that these are the "leaders" we look to

Sad, indeed. I know, we should be grateful. Perhaps my standard for leadership is a little higher. I find it disconcerting that I have to scream bloody murder for 6 years before my leaders will even acknowledge that there's a dead body in the living room.

[NMMNG]

18. It's about bloody time!

Paper ballots now!

[AntiFascist]

19. K&R ...

great to see special mention of the optical scan machines as well.

[progressoid]

20. So, in 8 or 9 years, maybe they will do something about it

[Ganja Ninja]

21. Seems that if they were serious about it they would file a lawsuit.

Or fifty lawsuits, one for each state. I don't know why they are waiting. If the machines are undependable then they should sue to ban them before the election not wait until after the election and try to prove fraud.

[oxbow]

24. excellent idea

this would be a good focus for the DU activist corps, if anybody wants to resurrect that old thing...in the meanwhile, I guess I'll write another email to the black hole, I mean DNC.

[MannyGoldstein]

25. What They Always Do - The Sir Robin Plan

The Democrats seem to have embraced the Sir Robin Plan for all battles:

(With regards to Monty Python)

Bravely bold Sir Robin rode forth from Camelot.
He was not afraid to die, O brave Sir Robin!
He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways,
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Robin!

...

rave Sir Robin ran away.
Bravely ran away, away!
When danger reared its ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
Bravely taking to his feet
He beat a very brave retreat,
Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin!

Where's FDR when we need him?

[KyuzoGator]

27. Soon they'll announce that Atlanta is the site of the 1996 Olympics!

Thanks for showing up, guys.

[madfloridian]

28. They are doing things.

There was a summit at the DNC also.

The problem is that when we post about stuff like this, it gets ignored. The media doesn't cover it, and people just keep saying they are doing nothing.

Dean has made statements on this, so have other Democrats.

Here's a thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1656495

Here's another page at the DNC
http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/05/governor_dean_o_17.php

[ClassWarrior]

29. Thank God we have heroes like RFK Jr.

NGU.