My paranoid vision: stay with me here for a couple minutes, OK?

[coalition_unwilling]

1) BFEE\NeoCon Axis of Bullshit desperately want war with Syria and\or Iran.

2) BFEE\NeoCon Axis of Bullshit desperately need pretext for said war with Syria and\or Iran.

3) BFEE\NeoCon Axis of Bullshit load 2500 Americans onto a slow-moving cruise ship in Mediterranean, all anounced loudly on television.

4) Hezbollah decides that, since we've provided most of the IDF military muscle, said cruise ship is legitimate military target.

HERE'S WHERE MY PARANOIA KICKS IN:

Did BFEE\NeoCon Axis of Bullshit actually put those Americans on slow-moving cruise ship in order to give Hezbollah a good chance to take out ship, thereby giving BFEE\NeoCon Axis of Bullshit the pretext they need to make war on Syria and\or Iran?

This is me trying to think like BFEE ahead of time about a possible new LIHOP scenario.

[everythingsxen]

1. You've got it all wrong...

we (the US Gov't) will blow up the cruise ship ourselves and then blame Hezbollah/Syria/Iran.

[Howardx]

3. my thoughts exactly

all this foot dragging on getting those people out has made me suspicious.

[Javaman]

32. it takes time to load that much explosives.

Actually, I'm ashamed of myself even thinking that way. This is what his* wrath has brought upon us all.
:cry:

[coalition_unwilling]

7. That would change my vision from LIHOP to MIHOP. But it

sounds like your thoughts are tending in the same direction as mine.

Ugh, don't like having those thoughts. But Darth Cheneyous leaves me little choice

[Virginia Dare]

2. They don't seem to be in a very big hurry to get those..

people out, do they? Shades of Katrina.

[Wanet]

4. You are right on target

They have set up "World Trade Center: Part II" to justify attacking Iran and/or Syria. Their "incompetence" in getting American citizens out of Lebanon has this purpose in mind.

[coalition_unwilling]

11. The reason I call it "paranoia" is that I have no evidence for it,

other than my sense that evacuating people on a cruise line isn't the safest way to go when there's a war zone. But maybe cruise ships go faster than I envision.

[spinbaby]

18. Sometimes incompetence is just incompetence

And they've certainly proven themselves to be incompetent.

[laruemtt]

5. i've actually thought

along those lines too. scary thought. i know the families will be relieved when their loved ones are back home. at least before the sh*t starts hitting us in the "homeland."

[Liberal In Texas]

6. There will be some pretext to war with Iran/Syria before Nov.

That's their strategy for winning the midterms. To make people afraid all over again.

The scenario of taking out the ship isn't that far from reality. Supposedly it's being escorted by the US Navy, but...

[coalition_unwilling]

8. Really puts Americans in Beirut on the horns of dilemma, I'd say.

Do said American citizens trust that Hezbollah won't take out cruise ship (if it's LIHOP) or that Israel\US won't take out cruise ship (if it's MIHOP) and take the cruise ship or do they take their chances in Beirut? If I were an American in Beirut right now, I think I'd risk staying there to show solidarity with the Lebanese.

[Joe for Clark]

9. I don't think you would.

I sure wouldn't.

Joe

[coalition_unwilling]

10. Stay in Beirut? I'm not sure what I would do in those circumstances,

to be quite honest. To be under aerial bombardment (whether from jets or unguided\guided missiles) is an experience I am very glad I have never had to experience. But the idea of sitting out in the Mediterranean on a sitting-duck cruise ship gives me pause, esp. given what I know about BFEE\NeoCon Axis of Bullshit.

[Joe for Clark]

14. But the choice is to get shot at for sure or

maybe get shot at.

I take maybe.

Joe

[coalition_unwilling]

16. Eesh, I see your point (I think), but I'm not so sure (npi) that

your chances would be worse in Beirut than on that slow-moving cruise liner. But I've been feeling really paranoid these past couple weeks. So maybe I'm not thinking about it rationally.

[Joe for Clark]

20. Oh, I think you are thinking of it rationally.

It IS a potential risk.

Joe

[robcon]

12. This is really stupid bullshit.

It doesn't reflect well to be associated with such drivel.

It's stuff like this that sometimes makes me cringe on DU.

[Howardx]

13. go away then

no one is making you post in this thread.

[coalition_unwilling]

15. Drivel? I announced it as a "paranoid vision," so I was

already willing to discount it a little bit. However, if that cruise liner is hit, you my friend will be eating a huge amount of crow.

Or maybe you won't. Whatever.

On edit: This is supposed to be a "General Discussion" forum. I only brought it up because I find the discussion of conventional narrative\LIHOP\MIHOP alternatives for 9/11 to be so stimulating.

[robcon]

24. Having it both ways.

You say you'll discount it "a bit."

Then you wonder if a cruise liner will be hit.

Intellectual timidity, or is it intellectual cowardice? You decide.

[coalition_unwilling]

25. Look, generally when you say something is a "paranoid vision,"

you're saying in advance that it may just be your paranoia and not anything real. That's what discounting it a bit means. Would it make you feel better if I said I was discounting it "somewhat"? I put it up for discussion, maybe because I wanted someone to tell me I was just "being paranoid" and why I should disregard my paranoid vision.

Why do you bother posting on threads that make you cringe? Why do youbother posting at an open forum like DU anyway? I do it because I like being forced to think through my positions and to have my own assumptions challenged.

You bet I'm wondering if the cruise liner will be hit. It's a big, fat target full of rich, privileged Americans whose country has supplied IDF with much of the military hardware the IDF is using to commit massive war crimes on innocent Lebanese civilians (Robert Fisk's words, not mine).

[robcon]

29. I post because i believe in the Democratic Party

You, apparently, are in cloud-cuckoo land...

"...with much of the military hardware the IDF is using to commit massive war crimes on innocent Lebanese civilians (Robert Fisk's words, not mine)."

And you're using Robert Fisk as a resource to support your point of view? Why not Baghdad Bob?

[coalition_unwilling]

35. First you impugn me, now you're impugning Robert Fisk? I suppose

you believe that Judith Miller deserves a Pulitzer for her coverage of Iraq's WMD stockpiles.

NB: Robert Fisk has actually spent the last 20 years stationed in Beirut, more than can be said for RobCon, I'd wager.

[Time for change]

30. Why do you call it stupid bullshit?

Do you think it's not a possibility?

[JuniperLea]

33. Then perhaps you should rethink your participation here

We aren't going to change for you.

We still have the right to free speech... today anyway.

Take a clue from your reactions... you may want to go somewhere safe, and cozy, milquetoast and non-controversial.

[Junkdrawer]

17. That or a "Hezbollah" terror attack on US soil seems inevitable...

When I did the calculations, a terror-attack-to-justify-a-war-on-Iran seemed highly likely - with one problem: No one with any ME knowledge at all would believe that Iran would do such a thing. That was the thing that made the so-called MIHOP II scenarios unlikely.

Now, we have this massively criminal attack on Lebanon with the stated aim of the annihilation of Hezbollah. An attack by Hezbollah on the US now is highly likely and very believable. And tracing such an attack back to Iran would be child's play compared to what was done in the lead up to Iraq.

Oh, we're going to get it alright. It's now just a question of when. Anytime between now and Nov. 2.

[coalition_unwilling]

19. I'm glad my wife is Canadian, so I can beat a hasty retreat if the

shit hits the fan.

[Warren DeMontague]

21. The problem is, you think Israel is somehow wedged deep into all of this.

They're not. The folks pulling the Neocon chain run a different country, entirely.



There won't be war with Iran as long as we don't have a draft. We won't have a draft without millions of people being woke from their Jessica Simpson Dancing With The Stars Wedge My Fat SUV drivin' Ass Into The Tiny Cars On The Rides At Disneyland Stupor. (Ever notice how many "older" -over 30- folks you see at peace rallies? Quickest way to change that would be to institute a draft) The PTB* (equally as menacing as any PNAC BFEE) don't want that level of shit-disturbing.

This was Israel's deal, and either Israel will finish it (hopefully by getting Hezbollah out of south Lebanon. Hopefully NOT by harming innocent civilians) or they won't. The US is not going to be seen fighting directly alongside Israel in the ME- not any time soon.

*powers that be

[Alexodin]

22. So there are no Zionists in the PNAC?

[Warren DeMontague]

23. define "Zionist". nt

[Alexodin]

26. Thats actually a thought stopping technique. You can use a

dictionary as well as I. Look at the signatories to the PNAC and tell me that none have any affiliation with Israel. Your postulate was that its all the Saudis and I agree they are heavily involved but its not just them.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. That's not a thought stopping technique. You used a term which gets

bandied about like crazy, under all manner of definitions: Therefore, I think asking you which one you're operating under ("Zionist" can mean anything from "Racist" -according to UN Resolution 3379- to "one who supports the existence of the state of Israel") is perfectly reasonable.

As it is, I in no way believe that "no one" in PNAC has any affiliation w/Israel. I know some of them do, and I'm sure other Israeli right wingers support PNAC or the Neo-Cons because they - quite mistakenly, to my mind- think that agenda is in Israel's best interests.

That's pretty different from the accusation I've seen repeatedly around here in recent days, that Israel is completely behind PNAC, completely driving the Neo-Con agenda, etc. etc. I don't think that's borne out by the facts, and yes, I do believe the Saudis are instrumental to the whole thing. I don't think the Family Saud are terribly fond of Israel, and I don't belive that Bush or Cheney honestly give a shit for Israel one way or the other, because among other things Israel doesn't have any oil.

I actually think this whole affair right now with Hezbollah -as opposed to being orchestrated by the Neo-Cons- was originated by Iran to distract the G8 from talking about their nuclear program (success) and if anything, it makes a Bush/Neo-Con adventure with Iran (at least in the near term) significantly LESS likely, because every military adventure we've ever taken in the ME has always been carefully designed to avoid any implication of Israeli involvement. If we attacked Iran now, it would be linked to Israel whether it was or not.

[coalition_unwilling]

27. I agree with you that war with Iran without military conscription

seems implausible. (Most Americans are unaware that Iran has a standing army of 1,000,000 and claims it has 40,000 trained suicide bombers.) But if a "Hezbollah rocket" takes out a cruise ship with 2500 Americans on it and that "Hezbollah rocket" is then traced back to "Iranian devils," would that be the impetus to bring back military conscription and thus the war with Iran and\or Syria that has been the PNAC obsession all along?

It's a big, long ugly chain I can see unfolding and I don't like feeling so paranoid constantly. Maybe I should smoke some weed, except that generally makes me even more paranoid :)

[Alexodin]

28. Shades of the Aquille Lauro. n/t

[RagAss]

31. draft???.... who would go?