Fair Questions About Hezbollah

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Why did Hezbollah blow up a Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires in 1994?


How can that bombing be linked in any way to legitimate resistance to Israeli occupation?



What major attacks is Hezbollah responsible for?

Hezbollah and its affiliates have planned or been linked to a lengthy series of terrorist attacks against the United States, Israel, and other Western targets. These attacks include:

a series of kidnappings of Westerners in Lebanon, including several Americans, in the 1980s;
the suicide truck bombings that killed more than 200 U.S. Marines at their barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, in 1983;
the 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847, which featured the famous footage of the plane’s pilot leaning out of the cockpit with a gun to his head;
two major 1990s attacks on Jewish targets in Argentina—the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy (killing twenty-nine) and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center (killing ninety-five).
a July 2006 raid on a border post in northern Israel in which two Israeli soldiers were taken captive. The abductions sparked an Israeli military campaign against Lebanon to which Hezbollah responded by firing rockets across the Lebanese border into Israel




http://www.cfr.org/publication/9155/


I am sure most folks have a Jewish Community Center in their town. It's like a Young Man's Christian Association. It's usually a cool place to work out- gym, basketball courts, etcetera... I have worked out in both... Heck if they had a Young Muslim Man's Association with those facilities I'd work out there too.


I just don't see how a Jewish Community Center thousands of miles away from the conflict can be called a legitimate military target. They could have just as likely targeted the Jewish Community Center in West Palm Beach.

[Kagemusha]

1. If you're expecting these guys to be saints, that's not so.

There's not a single act of violence against Jews on earth that will ever be accepted by Israel as legitimate resistance, so why search for one? After all, killing or kidnapping their soldiers is apparently a more heinous act than killing "civilians" to them.

Who cares about legitimacy anyway. This isn't about morality, it's about force. If Israel can pound Hizbollah to dust, it will.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. My Question Is

Even if you assume that all of Palestine is occupied territory how can one justify bombing a Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires.

[bryant69]

3. By saying that Israel is worse

has done worse things, and therefore deserves what it gets.

I would guess.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. There are many problems with that logic

mebbe we need Hisbollah to kill more americans now on America's streets for people to get it. this is a terrorist organzation.

Is is blowback? Yes

Do we need to deal with it? Absolutely

Short term what do you do?

Now long term what they are doing is counter productive unless, and that is a big iff, many things are done to improve the conditions of the poor shia living in the south of Lebanon.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. It Was A Jewish Community Center Not A Israeli Community Center

Most folks have one in their town.

It's a place to work out for the most part.

What does it have to do with Israel?

I thought Hezbollah was opposed to Israeli occupation not the presence of Jews in a Buenos Aires Community Center.

[bryant69]

12. Yes Hezbollah has done bad things

And that was unwarrented. But when you stack that against the civilian deaths caused by the Israelis, it's pretty meaningless.

Or so the argument goes - as near as I can tell.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Joe Fields]

18. And they are being spanked for those bad things.

The infrastructure in parts of Lebanon are part of the plan, also.

And, while any sane person would agree that it is a tragedy for any innocents to be killed, it would equally be silly to assume that Israel is knowingly targeting innocent Lebanese to be slaughtered.

[Robbien]

4. Turn that around and ask how can Israel bomb Lebanese children

just because it doesn't like the Hezbollah of the world?

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Why is Hisbollah HIDING in between those kids?

They are using them as human shields

Before you say it, other resistance movements across the world have done this resistance and won WITHOUT hiding among civilians

[Mandate My Ass]

11. that's why military strikes are counterproductive

they usually kill more civilians than terrorists, which breeds more terrorists, and the cycle of violence continues ad infinitum.

Look at the Taliban in Afghanistan, they're stronger than ever despite us blowing shit up over there and creating a lot of human misery and collateral damage for the past five years.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. So exactly what do you want people to do

just let the katyushas land?

Now there are ways of doing these strikes that could have worked but would have also gotten the world's concemnation. What if, for the sake of argument, Israel sent in
I don't know the Golani Brigade and other Spec Ops units and just kidnapped the leadership of Hisbollah?

Civilians killed? If they do it right, zero... wanna bet the world would be screaming for Israel violated the border?

Reality is the practice of using human shields and purposely attacking civilians should be the thing under condemnation by all concerned.

By the by, when they hide among civilians, they just made those civilians targets. On the flips side, the Patriots batteries that were deployed around Northern Israel have also made thhe surrounding araes VALID targets.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. It's a Bit Different.

Buenos Aires is thousands of miles away from the conflict.


I presume that out of the 92 that were killed there weren't many Israelis among them.

[Kagemusha]

9. Personally, I don't consider it justified at all.

So there.

[mzteris]

17. Violence is never "justified".

Understandable, maybe, but never "justified".

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Respectfully People Are Missing My Point

Hezbollah blew up a Jewish Community Center thousands of miles away from the conflict.

To use hip hop parlance Hezbollah has said their "beef" is with Israel not Jews.


It would be as if the Irish Republican Army blew up a Young Mans Christian Association Center in New York because it is ostensibly a Protestant organization.

[mzteris]

15. Wasn't this in 1994?

What else was going on in the world TWELVE years ago?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. The Dems Lost Control Of Congress.

The Oslo Peace Accords were taking off.

I don't remember what else.

[mzteris]

30. a couple things......

February 25 : Kahanist Baruch Goldstein opens fire inside the Cave of the Patriarchs in the West Bank. He kills 29 Muslims before worshippers beat him to death.

July 18 - In Buenos Aires, an explosion destroys a building housing several Jewish organizations killing ninety six and injuring many more. On 9 November 2005 Alberto Nisman Arentino prosecutor identified Hezbollah militant Ibrahim Berro responsible.

July 25 - Israel and Jordan sign the Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace which formally ends the state of war that has existed between the nations since 1948.


(interesting the timing of the last two, don't you think? Maybe someone was trying to disrupt the peace treaty?)


*****


Ayatollah Sayyed Ali Khamenei was "Spiritual Leader" of IRAN in 1994. (Also rumoured to have been the country behind the bombing.)

". . . The government began 1994 facing deteriorating morale and disillusionment among much of the population. Pres. Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani conceded in February that the nation had severe domestic difficulties.


(Iran was having a ton of trouble - maybe they needed some diversions?)

*****

I'm sure there's more.... most of which we never hear about.

Thing is - why are you so on about something that happened 12 years ago?

Also - did you accept my earlier challenge?

[Laotra]

31. Has Hezbollah pled guilty of that crime?

Is there any other evidence besides "state department says so"?

What happened to the presumption of innocense?

[mmonk]

13. Hezbollah is a cancer I believe formed for the sole purpose

of attacking Israel as well as Jews worldwide.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. I Am Trying To Avoid Hyperbole

The point I am trying to make is the Jewish Community Center was an exclusively "Jewish" target and had not a wit to do with Israel.

It's like a Ballys, LA Fitness, or Gold's Gym with some religious dressing.

[mmonk]

20. I understand your point.

Where is the hyperbole?

[Robbien]

22. The people being killed by Israel in Lebanon have

nothing to do with Hezbollah. Would it be okay for Israel to bomb the US because there are Hezbollah here also? Furthermore, Israel maybe should bomb every country on earth because there may be a Hezbollah hiding behind a bush somewhere.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. I Just Asked A Question

I'll ask it again...


How is blowing up a Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires legitimate resistance to Zionist occupation in Palestine?


Oh, if the Mossad blew up a Muslim Community Center thousands of miles from the battlefield I would condemn that as a racist , immoral, and barbaric act.

[Robbien]

27. Ask Israel, it is doing the same thing to Lebanon

I understand you are upset about a violent act which occurred a dozen years ago, but most everyone is concerned about the violent acts of today.

[mzteris]

14. here's what I found as to "why"

http://www.intelligence.org.il/eng/bu/hizbullah/pb/app5.htm

Although in other sources - Hezbollah denied responsibility for it as an organization.


Now - I challenge you to find "something" really heinous that Israel did. Can you?


Nothing is ever as simple as it seems. There is more than one side to every story. There are NO "good guys" in this dog fight. (But there are plenty of innocents on BOTH sides who are continuing to DIE, aren't there?)

For every bad, there is a worse. For every aggression, there is a counter aggression.

The question I continue to ask is "Who will be man* enough to stop the violence? Period."



(*the term 'man' not used to indicate gender nor 'manly-machismo-ness' - but rather who will be ADULT enough. Who will be ENLIGHTENED enough? Who will be "Godly" enough (if that's what you believe and both sides profess as such....)? )

[Sherman A1]

21. Well Said

There is plenty of blame to go around, the violence needs to end. Plenty of time later to play "this guy is worse than that guy".

[Laotra]

32. About the source

"The Center for Special Studies (C.S.S.) located at the official memorial site of the Israeli intelligence community serves as an active and interactive educational and informational center. Its purposes are to honor and commemorate those involved in secret warfare and to transmit to future generations the legacy of the Israeli intelligence community."

Hardly "fair and balanced" source. Which does not mean that what they say shouldn't taken into consideration, but I will still keep open mind about the truth in this event.

[mzteris]

33. one of my mottos

is "ALWAYS 'consider the source'.

I figured though that the OP would be more open to an "explanation" from a source such as this.

[Laotra]

35. Suspidiously

The "Shia land" in Argentine is in the giant aquifier area where on the other side of border, in Paraguay, Reverend Moon has been buying up his slave plantations, now size of a small country, protected by US military base, with the pretext of War Of Error naturally (in reality, to kick campesino butt as usual).

[Mir]

19. There's no justification

for the bombing of the center in S. America; it was just an act of anger and vengeance directed at civilians. But just because that particular act was unjust does not mean that other acts - the vast majority of the sum total in fact - that Hizbollah has undertaken against Israel are not justified and justifiable.

And let us not forget, the truck bombing of the American soldiers happened in response to the U.S. bombing the hell out of Lebanon for a weekend on behalf of Israel. That didn't come from nowhere, and it was an attack on the military no less. How people can complain about terror when the target was the friggin' Marine Corps is beyond me. Some of what Hizbollah has done has indeed been pure terror against innocent people, however the vast majority of their actions have been legitimate acts of resistance against an aggressive military occupation force.

[leftofthedial]

26. muslims kill jews

jews kill muslims

it's not exactly a new development

what's your point?

[mzteris]

36. and the Christians

egg 'em both on......

Come on Armeggedon, baaaaaabbbbbbyyyyyyyyy!!!!!


:puke:

[Spazito]

28. That is an abominable act

as is the bombing of Lebanon and it's infrastructure. It is the "yeah, but look what "they" did" kind of tit for tat that is the very foundation for the failure of any resolution of the Middle East crises.

Are you saying that, because Hezbollah bombed a Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires it's okay for Israel to be bombing the infrastructure of Lebanon, killing innocent civilians?

Do two wrongs automatically make a right? Not in my book.

Both the bombing of the Jewish Community Center AND the bombing of Lebanon are despicable acts, period.

[leveymg]

29. US operations against Hezbollah haven't been particularly successful

What would you like the U.S. to do? Any reason to believe that our getting actively involved in Lebanon again would have better results today?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/target/etc/cron.html
March 16, 1984 CIA Station Chief William Buckley kidnapped

Buckley was the fourth person to be kidnapped by militant Islamic extremists in Lebanon. The first American hostage, American University of Beirut President David Dodge, had been kidnapped in July 1982. Eventually, 30 Westerners would be kidnapped during the 10-year-long Lebanese hostage-taking crisis (1982-1992). Americans who were kidnapped included journalist Terry Anderson, American University of Beirut librarian Peter Kilburn, and Benjamin Weir, a Presbyterian minister. While some of the prisoners lived through captivity -- Anderson spent the longest time as a hostage, 2,454 days -- some, including Buckley, died in captivity or were killed by their kidnappers.

U.S. officials believed that the Iranian-backed Hezbollah was behind most of the kidnappings and the Reagan administration devised a covert plan. Iran was desperately running out of military supplies in its war with Iraq, but Congress had banned the sale of American arms to countries like Iran that sponsored terrorism. Reagan was advised that a bargain could be struck -- secret arms sales to Iran, hostages back to the U.S. The plan, when it was revealed to the public, was decried as a failure and anathema to the U.S. policy of refusing to negotiate with terrorists. In August 1985, the first consignment of arms to Iran was sent -- 100 anti-tank missiles provided by Israel; another 408 were sent the following month. As a result of the deal, American hostage Benjamin Weir was released from captivity; he had been imprisoned for 495 days. Only two other hostages were released as a result of the arms-for-hostages deal: in July 1986, Martin Jenco, a Catholic priest, was released; and the administrator of the American University of Beirut's medical school, David Jacobson, was released in November 1986.

Since the funds from the arms sales to Iran were secretly, and illegally, funneled to the U.S.-backed Contras fighting to overthrow the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua, the infamous episode became known as the "Iran-Contra affair." (See the "Final Report of the Independent Counsel for Iran/Contra Matters.)

Sept. 20, 1984 Bombing of U.S. Embassy annex northeast of Beirut

In Aukar, northeast of Beirut, a truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. Embassy annex killing 24 people, two of whom were U.S. military personnel. According to the U.S. State Department's 1999 report on terrorist organizations, elements of Hezbollah are "known or suspected to have been involved" in the bombing. The U.S. mounted no military response to the embassy annex bombing, but it did begin to explore covert operations in Lebanon. Investigative journalist Bob Woodward says that the CIA trained foreign intelligence agents to act as "hit teams" designed to destroy the terrorists' operations. Ambassador Robert Oakley says the U.S. merely attempted to set up a "protective unit," a Lebanese counterterrorist strike force.

President Reagan and the CIA called off covert operations when Lebanese intelligence operatives -- some allegedly trained by the U.S. -- set off a car bomb on March 8, 1985, in an attempted murder of Sheik Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, the Shiite Muslim cleric who some believed to be the spiritual leader of Hezbollah. Over 80 people were killed in the attack near a Beirut mosque. Fadlallah survived. Many blamed the CIA for the attack, saying it had directed the intelligence operatives to carry it out. Robert McFarlane, President Reagan's national security adviser, says that the operatives who carried out the attack on Fadlallah may have been trained by the U.S., but the individuals who carried it out were "rogue operative(s)," and the CIA in no way sanctioned or supported the attack.

And then there was that experience with Abu Nidal in an effort to fight terrorists with terrorists. That didn't end up very well, either. Abu Nidal's splinter group killed more Palestinians and Muslims than Israelis and Jews, but did absolutely nothing to prevent Hamas and Hezbolah from coming to power politically.

http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/abu.htm
Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
From: Country Reports on Terrorism, 2004. United States Department of State, April 2005.

Comments on the content of the material should be sent to the U.S. Department of State

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other Names
Fatah Revolutionary Council
Arab Revolutionary Brigades
Black September
Revolutionary Organization of Socialist Muslims

Description
The ANO international terrorist organization was founded by Sabri al-Banna (a.k.a. Abu Nidal) after splitting from the PLO in 1974. The group’s previous known structure consisted of various functional committees, including political, military, and financial. In November 2002 Abu Nidal died in Baghdad; the new leadership of the organization remains unclear.

Activities
The ANO has carried out terrorist attacks in 20 countries, killing or injuring almost 900 persons. Targets include the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Israel, moderate Palestinians, the PLO, and various Arab countries. Major attacks included the Rome and Vienna airports in 1985, the Neve Shalom synagogue in Istanbul, the hijacking of Pan Am Flight 73 in Karachi in 1986, and the City of Poros day-excursion ship attack in Greece in 1988. The ANO is suspected of assassinating PLO deputy chief Abu Iyad and PLO security chief Abu Hul in Tunis in 1991. The ANO assassinated a Jordanian diplomat in Lebanon in 1994 and has been linked to the killing of the PLO representative there. The group has not staged a major attack against Western targets since the late 1980s.

Strength
Few hundred plus limited overseas support structure.

Location/Area of Operation
Al-Banna relocated to Iraq in December 1998, where the group maintained a presence until Operation Iraqi Freedom, but its current status in country is unknown. Known members have an operational presence in Lebanon, including in several Palestinian refugee camps. Authorities shut down the ANO’s operations in Libya and Egypt in 1999. The group has demonstrated the ability to operate over a wide area, including the Middle East, Asia, and Europe. However, financial problems and internal disorganization have greatly reduced the group’s activities and its ability to maintain cohesive terrorist capability.

External Aid
The ANO received considerable support, including safe haven, training, logistical assistance, and financial aid from Iraq, Libya, and Syria (until 1987), in addition to close support for selected operations.

[CuteNFuzzy]

34. There is no excuse for it