Wes Clark on Mideast Crises...he has a plan.

[Clarkie1]

Does Shrub?

"Well, the last word on this is you've got to take the openings that are offered. This is an opening. This is a way of further deepening the grip of democracy in Lebanon if the United States does it right. If we use our allies, if we show the right behind-the-scenes coaching and resolve, we can work to strengthen Israel's security and deal a significant blow against Syria and Iran without ever putting a US soldier, airman or Marine in danger." -Wes Clark

Here's the details:

July 17, 2006, 2006
Transcript by Melange

Bill O'Reilly: Now for another view of this, joining us now from Little Rock, Arkansas, General Wesley Clark, Fox News Analyst. Now, General Clark put together the air campaign in the Balkans when we were facing terror from Milosevic and his thugs. So, I'm looking for solutions here, first. Is there a solution with the terror groups Hamas and Hizbollah? Is there a solution down the road

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Absolutely. Absolutely, there's a solution on Hizbollah right now. What you've got to do is you've got to link the military action by Israel which has to…which can be measured in its effectiveness in actually striking and dismantling Hizbollah. With enough diplomatic pressure and assistance to the Lebanese government to force the remains of Hizbollah out of south Lebanon and discredit the organization. Now, that's the way to handle this. There's no doubt about Hizbollah. They're terrorists, and there's no doubt that the Israelis are justified in going after them after what's happened.

So, what we have to hope is that the Israelis have the means to mount an effective air campaign. The evidence thus far is encouraging but it's not conclusive. In other words, what you've got to do in this thing militarily, Bill, is you've got to have control of the targeting cycle. You've got to have the sky over south Lebanon full of unmanned aerial vehicles. You've got to have special forces teams on the ground. You've got to take that information back, put it in the hands of the pilot, get the pilot over the target to strike the team…


Bill O'Reilly: Okay, but if you do that you're going to have civilian deaths. You know that - it happened in the Balkans, it happens in every air war.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: You'll have some, but not too many. And the truth is that the Sunni Arab states are not fans of Hizbollah. They know that Hizbollah is the arm, the action arm, of Iran. They know it's a proxy. It's a means for proxy aggression by Syria and Iran against Israel. And the Sunni Arab states: Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan - they don't want to see that so this is a window of opportunity for Israel if it can deliver the military goods.


Bill O'Reilly: Okay, but then you're going to have Arabs fighting Arabs, Muslims fighting Muslims. Now, the United Nations, of course, with the resolution they passed to disband Hizbollah in the south of Lebanon and then of course backed it up with nothing. And this is always the problem, General. We're always facing the same problem.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, the Lebanese government's been shy about doing this.

Bill O'Reilly: But they can't. They're weak. They're weak.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: So now they can't be shy. We've got to give them a little strength here. And there's a lot of countries, including France, that would like to see the Lebanese government strengthened. So, let's have some of our allies get in and put their shoulder to the wheel and push a little bit.

Bill O'Reilly: What is that mean? Does that mean we land Marines and French troops?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: I wouldn't want to put Marines in there but here's what I think could be done: I think you could have the Lebanese government call on Hizbollah to evacuate, so demonstrate first some political resolve; secondly I think you could call…the Lebanese government should call for an investigation of how this incident occurred - call on Hizbollah to lay the cards on the table, hold the leaders of Hizbollah accountable and then use that as a way of shoving them out. And then put the means in for the Lebanese government troops to go in.

Bill O'Reilly: Okay, that sounds like a good plan…

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It is a good plan.

Bill O'Reilly: …but if I'm Syria, I'm going to say to my Hizbollah guys: if the Lebanese government gives you any trouble, we already killed one of…assassinated one of them, Syria did - you know that. Um, you can then turn on the Lebanese government because there are thousands of Hizbollah in Beirut right now, armed to the teeth, alright and I don't think the Lebanese government could stand up against those people going in and wiping these people out. Not when you have a client state, Syria, right behind them, supplying them, encouraging them. See, I just don't have any confidence that the United Nations is going to back up the Lebanese government and that's what it would take.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well look, what you've got now is a can that the lid is partially open and the Israelis are turning the can opener. The question is whether we're going to have the skill to come in and finish doing the job. I agree Syria's very strong in the region. I agree…Hizbollah…I agree the Lebanese government's afraid, so can't we work with that existing government?

Bill O'Reilly: I don't know. I don't know if we can or not.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: It doesn't do us any good to have that government fall.

Bill O'Reilly: See, now I don't have any confidence that the French will help. I know the Russians won't. The Germans, I don't know. I assume the British would because there are British people there now. But you know, General, it all comes down to this: the world, still…the world, tolerates Saddam, Iran, Syria, Hamas, Hizbollah. The world still tolerates these people. I'll give you the last word.

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, the last word on this is you've got to take the openings that are offered. This is an opening. This is a way of further deepening the grip of democracy in Lebanon if the United States does it right. If we use our allies, if we show the right behind-the-scenes coaching and resolve, we can work to strengthen Israel's security and deal a significant blow against Syria and Iran without ever putting a US soldier, airman or Marine in danger.

Bill O'Reilly: Alright, let's hope it happens General. Pleasure to speak with you, as always. Thank you, General.

http://www.securingamerica.com/node/1217

[melnjones]

1. Nice to know someone does!

One of my biggest pet peeves is when countries say they are doing one thing when their actions show another...like Israel saying they want the Lebanese government to get Hezbollah out of their country, but then they do crap like bomb the Lebanese army. I like the idea of having special forces on the ground but would feel more comfortable with it if the forces aren't Israeli...sorry, just don't have a lot of confidence in them as a whole to avoid civilian deaths. It's clear they suck at that. Problem is that putting forces on the ground puts them at more risk. It's a lot easier to bomb from the sky...Perhaps if a UN team went in?

[Tinksrival]

2. The General can explain things so clearly.......

maybe even foxbots will understand. One can hope, right?

[Clarkie1]

3. That's the goal.

The main thing I get out of this is our focus, and the rest of the world's focus, should be on using the present situation and our leverage with the rest of the world to help establish a stronger Demcocracy in Lebanon now and after all the dust clears because more than anything else that will help bring peace to the region...even beyond Israel/Lebanon.

Makes sense to me.

[delete_bush]

11. Nope. If the General had responded with

"I thought you were going to ask me about the pig!" they would have giggled like the little pea-brained morons they are and given the high five. They're a hopeless lot.

[CuteNFuzzy]

4. "The evidence thus far is encouraging"?

Not sure I agree there

[melnjones]

5. i think he means

the evidence is that they have the MEANS to do it, not that they are doing it thus far. They do have the technology and the military power to have successful air attacks.

[Clarkie1]

6. I wish Clark were directing the targeting.

Or a should say, a Clark-twin Israeli general.

I hope the Israelis are doing the best they can, with all the resources they can, to accurately target and minimize civilian casualties; but there are going to be some, as we have already witnessed. I wish that didn't have to be the case, it's tragic.

The only hope can be that out of this, if it's handled right, it will lead to more peace in the future by expelling Hezbollah, and stregthening the nascent Democracy in Lebanon.

[Clarkie1]

7. The evidence is there is a decrease in the number of rocket attacks

by Hezbollah. He was talking about that today on another interview. Their are still attacks, but not as many. The hope is the rocket attacks can be stopped by this air assault without the use of ground troops, and so far the signs are hopeful.

[Warren DeMontague]

8. Clark is smart, no question. He displays a real grasp of the issues.

Too bad we have Gomer Fuckin' Pyle in the White House.

[moondust]

25. A truly pathetic situation.

Clark has tons of international and military experience, just what we need at times like this.

Instead we get Gomer who has neither.

"The system" is seriously flawed.

[cantstandbush]

31. So Syria, Lebanon have no rights at all...only Israel?

Screw you Wes Clark.

[martymar64]

39. I agree . . once Hezbollah's gone then what?

With Hezbollah gone, the Israelis would have a green light to start wholesale slaughter of civilians in the West Bank and Gaza. For them its just one closer step in realizing their "Manifest Destiny" AKA Greater Israel all the way to the Euphrates.
When Hitler saw the lack of international response to the Armenian genocide in 1918, he saw the potential for action that culminated in the Holocaust. This is just a replay of that. With the US to protect it, Israel feels it can attack anyone in the region with impunity. This was never about kidnapped soldiers.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. What?

So Hezbollah- in Lebanon- is what has kept the Israelis from "wholesale slaughter of civilians in the West Bank and Gaza"?

What planet are you living on?

Hezbollah was formed as a "resistance movement" against the Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon. In 1982. The West Bank and Gaza were occupied in '67, after all the surrounding Arab States had geared up to destroy Israel and massacre the Israeli citizenry (speaking of "Genocide"). So if the Israelis had really wanted to "slaughter" the citizens of the West Bank and Gaza, they had 15 years in which to do it before Hezbollah- in Lebanon- supposedly came along to "stop" them. Oh, yeah- and Hezbollah was formed supposedly to get the Israelis out of Lebanon- and the Israelis GOT out of Lebanon, completely, in 2000. So why did Hezbollah not disarm? Most importantly, why did they KEEP attacking Israelis -in Israel?

Here's some more about those brave Hezbollah "resistance fighters", and what this kidnapping of the Israeli soldiers is REALLY about:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1669305&mesg_id=1669305

[Quixote1818]

9. Kick

[K8-EEE]

10. OMG Somebody THINKING IT THROUGH?

Instead of just dumb slogans and macho posturing a la Chimpy?

Very refreshing. I think that sounds doable!

[wiley]

12. Still, it's creepy that O'Leilly recognized the validity of such a plan

and that some sane discussion of the issue was taking place on Faux News. We have been SO victimized by the crap the media churns out. What is going to happen to the million or so Lebanese refugees if the Lebanese government does not act to negotiate with Hizbollah? The * administration obviously was not taken by surprise by these events. For lack of a plan, letting Israel defend themselves was the whole idea. Tough luck and see you later, alligator to those up to 100,000 Americans in Lebanon who dared to visit or live in a country with a US designated terrorist group (they are terrorists, but that's not the point here). The idea that the wealthy Republican elites in the US get tax breaks and giveaways of federal dollars while other Americans (including Christians, My God!)are forced to pay a transportation fee for getting out of a country attacked by a US ally is mindblowing. How long did Israel have those flyers that were dropped by the millions in Lebanon? Kinkos overnight? When the USD lies about their true motives and participation, they lose any moral authority or integrity that their policy may have had.

The Israelis are way too smart and experienced and terrorized to depend on a Republican Keystone Cops foreign policy(?) team. The * administration and their rubber stamp rubber headed Republican allies in Congress obviously didn't have the ability or guts to confront and disarm or extract reliable information from Iran or Syria or North Korea or anyone directly for that matter, except for that guy in Iraq who was actually preventing the religious and civil warfare among the Iraqi people. Saddam was a brutal POS that should have been tortured and executed, for sure with no apologies to those who oppose the death penalty, but now Iraqis are getting blown away 24/7 by each other, and Islamic fanatics who think their Islam is better than some other group's Islam. The Bushies had a great plan for Iraq back then as well. Not. Because US foreign policy and domestic policy is being waged on this country and the world by demented religious fanatics and wealthy conservative hacks who aggressively and violently could not care less about "people".

This crap just would not have happened if a Democratic President(like Wes Clark) and Congress were running this country. We may have attacked the Taliban in Afghanistan, but we never would have lost the global integrity that would have saved so many soldiers and civilians lives. I was just so ashamed as a Democrat to have had nominated two supporters of the Iraqi WAR Resolution as our candidates, and profoundly and irrevocably disgusted by those who bought into the CORRUPT, CRIMINAL REPUBLICAN CRIME CARTEL and voted for Bush. They won't let a fertilized cell be used for research to save millions of lives, yet they eagerly overlook the casualties and suffering caused by the Republicans they support.

[CuteNFuzzy]

15. Discussion was allowed on Bill's show because ,,,

Because there is no questioning or criticism of Israeli aggression here. Fox News plays as huge a role in gatekeeping thinking Americans as any other major media outlet. To question Israeli tactics while may be permitted slightly in more liberal news is just never going to happen on Fox.

[wiley]

48. You severely underestimate the evil ande scope of Murdoch's media empire.

It's the Democracy that Republicans are trying to sell in Iraq and the US.

[ArkySue]

13. K &R n/t

[allemand]

14. Well, I see that he is electable.

But he should be aware that the US is currently not making many friends in Lebanon as Israel is also hitting Sunni and Christian areas and the Lebanese army which actually has orders not to fight.

[vickitulsa]

16. Definitely sounds like a good plan! Wish more people would listen

to him, take the General's words to heart and recognize a sensible solution to this untenable situation must be reached "or else"!

(The "or else" isn't hard to imagine, is it?)

What real choice does the world have but to employ every reasonable means we have to influence both Israel and Lebanon to positive effect? When there exist diplomatic possibilities such as Clark outlines in his excellent overview of a viable solution, why must extremists insist on saying and doing things that merely turn up the heat on an already-overheated situation?

And I do believe there are extremists on both sides, on every side, it would seem, trying hard to make things even worse than they are. I'd like to see more genuine peacemaking efforts go forth in every venue, and IMO some true progress could be made.

Just think, if the involved parties would take a page from Clark's book on a solution to the present ME military conflict, things could begin turning around immediately!

IMO we're never going to see an improvement in the situation until some good military AND diplomatic minds are allowed to have a say in what is done. How to handle the situation in Lebanon? With kid gloves, yes, since we're talking about actual bombing and rocketing going on to an alarming degree already. But for humanity's sake, handle it! Other countries including the U.S. should stop being complacent and cease the unhelpful commenting from the sidelines and get in there and find a sensible solution and make it happen. It CAN be done, so they should stop looking for the most opportunistic moves they can make in their interest and seek peace and the removal of the problem elements involved immediately.

After reading his summary, I find myself wishing Clark were indeed in the White House right now....

[martymar64]

40. Why does this "good plan" involve killing more Arabs?

That's all I'm hearing from Clark, the solution is to kill more Arabs. His thinking is consistent with Bolton's statement that Arab lives are worth less than Israeli lives.
Israel has no interest in peace, that would get in the way of their "Manifest Destiny". They have all those Palestine to ethnically cleanse out of Gaza and the West Bank.
When they finally get around to the genocide phase, who will speak up for the Palestinians? My fear is that no one will.

[Gloria]

42. I've been posting my concerns about this at WesPac....

under Ruth's 7/18 blog of that appearance.

In his first appearance a few days back he was nodding in agreement with an American Muslim spokesperson about taking the innocents into the context of what is going on...And mentioned Bush's bungled policies in the region.

Since then, it's been nothing but Israel's attacks and this business about how the Lebanese govt. is supposed to control the South. He's filled out that piece with the need for social services, etc., that Hezbollah has beeh offering. The possible descent into civil war also seems to be glossed over.

But I'm concerned that all this sounds like being on track with the Israeli view of things overall.....this delaying of diplomacy as this long planned attack destroys Lebanon should be called out by someone.

I really hate it if Clark is letting FOX dictate his message or if he is self-censoring himself.

[ConsAreLiars]

17. Well, that is almost bad enough to turn me away from Clark.

Maybe it is enough. The delusion that "democracy" in this context means anything other than the furtherance of the PNAC plan to establish military domination over the oil resources and strategic positioning for taking on China and Russia is disturbing. Is he really that naive? This seems to suggest so.

This from someone who has seen Clark as our best bet for saving the planet. Maybe he is, but this interview suggests he is just another unwitting tool. Sorry to say.

[Quixote1818]

18. So what is your plan? nt

[ConsAreLiars]

19. Take a stand against invasions.

You will disagree, but murdering innocents is no way to promote peace.

[Quixote1818]

20. I am neutral on all this but let me be the devils advocate on your point

What if your invasion turns out to be successful, you limit civilian casualties as much as possible, you severely cripple the terrorist organization and you strengthen the Lebanese Democracy in the process? Would that possibly lead to less killing in the future and perhaps a better world?

Maybe so maybe not? Just a thought. I am not informed enough to understand all this. It all seems extremely complicated and a very difficult, touchy situation for all party's involved. Their are no easy moves or solutions in this but at least someone needs to start putting plans out their that can be debated and either accepted or rejected.

I look forward to your thoughts as discussion is the only way to try to move toward some kind of solution.

[ConsAreLiars]

21. Your "what if" speculation is without any historical precedent.

And the facts of this particular situation don't support even speculating about such an honorable goal. I'll credit Clark for wanting to turn this into something positive, but the players and gamers now involved have no such intent. This is about power, not justice. And, as the truism has it, "no justice, no peace."

[Quixote1818]

22. Is their any historical precedent that was successful to draw ideas from?

I have very limited understanding of the Middle East so I am trying to learn. I have spent the last few days listening to a number of Democratic Talk Show Host's talk about all this and they are all over the map. So far I think Lionell (progressive radio host from New York) seems to have the best understanding of all the complexities of this. I haven't heard many people give any kind of plan though.

[Cameron27]

26. The plan is sounds good..

Once Hezbollah is defeated, the government of Lebanon must be provided the necessary funds and security to become self sufficient or it will only be a matter of time before another Hezbollah establishes itself.

The people of Lebanon were dancing in the streets after Syria was pushed out, clearly demonstrating a desire for self determination. If the government had been given enough support at that time, I don't think that Hezbollah would have had any success in establishing control. IMO.

Just a thought.

[Quixote1818]

34. Makes sense. Thank you. nt

[Quixote1818]

23. Need to get to bed but I will look for your response in the morning

Thanks for the discussion.

[ConsAreLiars]

45. No morning replies from me (night walker here) but the most

important part of any plan would understand that the goal is not to "kill" Hezbollah (etc.) but to weaken the toxic elements therein. The goal is to support whatever moderate humanitarian elements exist within the broader category and create conditions in which the more murderous side is de-fanged. Killing people doesn't get there. To be fair to Clark, he does talk about such things, but (imo) the attack on Lebanon as a whole was not a useful step, as he sometimes seems to imply.

[FrenchieCat]

33. You are correct.....Murdering innocents is no way to promote peace....

and I will add that violence only begets violence.....and it is the negotiating that goes on after all of the bombs have gone off that promotes peace...never war.

However what you are suggesting as a plan is not happening.....taking "a stand against the invasion" by this government....

In other words you are not really advocating a plan....you are simply stating a stance one could take.

Clark wasn't giving his stance on the issue, he was suggesting an actual feasible plan based on the facts on the ground...that would minimize the carnage...with something do-able. That's what real plans entail.

[Quixote1818]

36. Nicely Said Frenchie, you are so smart!

:hi:

[Dunedain]

24. I disagree with you in a sense

I think the current situation favors the pnac
plan more than the scenario Clark outlined would.

He's talking about making a silk purse out of a
pigs ear and George Bush ate that ear in Germany last week.

[Bucky]

28. Except the PNAC plan is "bomb more, let it spin more out of control"

Clark's plan isn't a solution because there is no solution--only laborous and dangerous strategies hoping to de-escalate the violence. That's not the best plan; it's the only plan. The only things that favor the PNAC plan are arms dealers, the devil, and the second law of thermodynamics: "The entropy of an isolated system not at equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value."

[FrenchieCat]

32. The thing about a "real" plan is that it must take into consideration

What is actually occuring on the ground, as well as the various realistic directions this could go....then make recommendations based the current facts.

That is the only way a plan becomes viable...and is the only plan one can outline if they are speaking in order to create solutions.....not just talking to score political points!

What a "real" plan does NOT entail is calling for far reaching steps that those involved would never take....due to each's track record.

According to everything have have heard, read and seen thus far.....it is not in the capacity of those involved to sing "Kumbaya" round the campfire...nor is it reasonable to outline a plan in where the U.S. suddently starts to become "balanced" in how it deals with Israel/ME issues, and Israel and Arabs starts treating each other with respect. That would be nice.....but that ain't no "PLan" that one can reasonably expect to happen.

It would be easy enough for one to espouse what one would "like" to see happen in a more idealistic bent, but I don't think that it would serve anyone for Clark to have suggested something that could nor will never happen. That's not a plan, that's one's ideology regarding the Israel/Palestinian issue. General Clark was not providing his vision of what should happen under all of the right circumstances....rather he was providing steps to make the best out of a terrible situation.

This situation is far too complex and explosive for folks to be playing Domestic Politics right now. Clark has a realistic plan which he has clearly articulated...which is more than I can say about most of the politicos who would rather stay away from this one with a 10 foot pole.

I ain't heard Kerry, Edwards, Warner, Clinton, Feingold's or any other coming out with a plan on this conbustible situation. Have you? :shrug:

[Bucky]

27. Clark isn't surprising here. But O'Reilly is stunningly clueless

This situation is so out of control, the pugs are just throwing up their hands. Bush says he won't send Rice in until the coast is clear--whenever the hell that is. The neocons are acting predictably helpless and confused about the whole matter. So finally O'Reilly shuts up, asks some calm "how can you save us?" questions to Clark--who's only advocating the same solution any Democratic president would offer.

I almost don't recognized O'Reilly in this transcript... he truly doesn't know who to hate in this situation and is therefor rudderless. It's like we hammer the Arab world right and left, start pointless wars, lie about culture, torture their men, rape their girls, and yet they still don't fear and love us! So now it's time to call the adults in and beg for advice.

Thank you, General Clark. And thank you, neocons, for being so moronic that common sense starts to sound like words of genius.

[Quixote1818]

37. "common sense" starts to sound like words of genius

That really resonated with me when I read that part of your post. I think you are exactly right. We have just forgotten what it was like to be lead by intelligent leaders.

[DanCa]

29. The General would so kick Mccain's and Guilani's ass

Clark in 08. He could flip the red states.

[DemonFighterLives]

30. I don't care how it is phrased

This whole war and unstable world is Dubya's fault. He called out the axis of evil and terrified Iraq and therefore put Iran and North Korea on edge.
He could have done so much to bring peace to Israel and Palestine and did nothing. He is not an even handed broker. I for one do not believe that the Muslims over there would be organizing Hezbollah, Hamas or Al Qaeda if they had any other out. There is none and dubby has thrown all his strength (money and military wise) behind Israel.

For my 2 cents Israel doesn't look good in this fiasco and neither does Hezbollah or any other boogymen. Much more could be done if the US were trying for the last 6 years to establish peace and act like a leader. We need to show diplomacy curing problems, not the mistaken form of "diplomacy" that dubby and condi show.

Clarks plan still calls for bombing and I think that is the first mistake. IMHO>
:dem:

[FrenchieCat]

35. you say.....

"Clarks plan still calls for bombing and I think that is the first mistake"


But the bombing is going to go on....no matter what anyone says....

A plan entails incorporating the facts that are occurring.....

A plan cannot operate based on what we wish was not happening.

Clark's plan could work in making a terrible situation come out the best it could be.....but only based on the circumstances as they are happening.

You want Clark to tell you his stance on the issue....but unfortunately, one's stance does not equal a plan.

[DemonFighterLives]

38. I can agree

My thoughts are just wishful thinking. The world doesn't seem to want to find peaceful solutions. Well, most don't.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

41. I love Wes Clark

I was one of the first people in California working on his campaign in the Draft movement, well before he declared his candidacy. I maxed out on my donations to him. But one point I would raise here is that no solution anywhere in the Arab world will ever work until you resolve the Palestinian issue with regard to the creation of a peaceful sovereign Palestinian state that is fully integrated, that is not a collection of lorded-over bantustans, that has sovereignty over its air space and terrority, and where the settlements have been withdrawn from the West Bank. Of course, in exchange, the Israelis will have to be given peace and respect of their own sovereignty and right to exist. Until we are able to broker that or bring it about, Hamas, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah or any other radical Islamic groups will continue receiving wide support resulting from all of the anger in the Arab world over the treatment of Palestine.

I know Wes Clark has been very even-handed on this. In the past, during his campaign, he was interviewed by Arabic News saying "We must understand the Islamic perspective". He was the only candidate in the Democratic Party to my recollection who actually said that part of our problem is that we are not willing to listen to the long-festering grievances of the Arabs that, I think, are making Hezbollah, Hamas, and Al Qaeda stronger and more influential than they otherwise would be.

[Clarkie1]

44. Thank you for your post, it adds perspective. nt

[Emit]

46. I guess bombing the Lebanese army isn't part of Wes' plan...

Barracks of the Lebanese army in the hills overlooking Beirut were bombed four times overnight by Israeli jets and rescue efforts were underway. The number of casualties there was unclear. In a similar attack early Monday nine soldiers were killed.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=74055

Are the Lebanese army infiltrated by Hezbollah and not to be trusted? Did they suspect Hezbollah to be there?
:shrug:

[BeHereNow]

47. Oh the fucking hypocrisy and irony...

US bad for killing Iraqi civilians.
Israel killing civilians necessary.

Am I the only one who sees how insane this discussion
is?

Fuck, no wonder we are fucking DOOMED.
Retreating to cave now-
BHN