I have to get this off my chest (marriage equality)

[dsc]

I am really fed up with being a political football. Today, a House of Representatives that literally couldn't solve any of our pressing problems spent an hour and a half debating a Constitutional Amendment banning marriage equity and civil unions. We have a hot war in the ME, we have raised the debt ceiling to a record 9 trillion, we have hundreds of thousands of troops in Iraq who aren't properly outfitted, we still have people in NO without basic services, we have millions with no health insurance, and I could go on and on. But today we had to discuss whether people like me are real citizens or we aren't.

I am fed up with this. Thank God for small favors that we need 2/3 in order to pass the amendment.

The vote was 236-187 with one member voting ''present,'' a slight improvement over the last House vote just before the 2004 election but still 46 short of the two-thirds majority needed to advance a constitutional amendment.

I am so glad the New York Times find more people voting for the amendment a small improvement. Well over half of the US Congress voted for this. I am so glad that over half of my elected Representatives feel I am a second class citizen to such an extent that our founding document should be changed to reflect that.

What next, will I be 3/5 of a person from now on? This isn't about marriage. It is about respect. It is about being treated as a real citizen and not a pretend one. Having a bunch of adulterers and homewreckers decide if I am fit to be married is down right insulting. The likes of Henry Hyde, Helen Chenowith, and Elizabeth Dole have absolutely no business telling me or anyone else for that matter, who we can and can't marry.

I am so proud to be an American today, not.

[EFerrari]

1. It is insulting ,to all of us.

We just stay with it. We just don't shut up.

:kick:

[jonnyblitz]

2. outstanding post!!

as a fellow "3/5 of a person" I can say you speak for me. :thumbsup: :hug: :hi:

[MarkDevin]

21. You're not 3/5 of a person! At least, not to me.

I don't know you, of course, but that makes no difference to me.

That'll be the day I consider someone "3/5 of a person" because of their sexual orientation! Anybody who would, doesn't deserve the privilege of living in a free country.

[Totally Committed]

3. Hold on, my friend...

I know it seems bad now, but there are a lot of Americans behind you and your Human and civil rights. The pendulum will swing back and there will come a day when this will all be behind you.

Until then, I know it doesn't mean much or help much, but I (and people like me) wish you nothing but all good things.

TC

[foreigncorrespondent]

4. Ya know dsc...

...I am at the point where I just wish they would pass the fucking thing, so they cannot continue holding a country hostage with it.

[dsc]

5. I should have left the US when I was young enough to do so

sadly I am now too old for most immigration programs. I do almost wish they would pass it just to shut them up.

[foreigncorrespondent]

Self delete

Same thing posted twice.

[foreigncorrespondent]

6. Yeah!

Immigration rules really do discriminate against those of us who are older. Unless of course we have millions we can invest in other countries.

[dsc]

7. have you ever been able to find a solution to your mess?

I know you were looking into Canada yourself at one time.

[foreigncorrespondent]

8. Unfortunately not!

Sapph sadly is considered too old for immigration into Canada now, and I have just secured a fairly decent paying job here in Australia, so no point my trying to go there.

It just gets harder and harder with each passing day for us queers, my friend!

[dsc]

9. At least Australia could turn on a dime

The nice thing about a Parlimentary system is that when a liberal party wins they can change things immediately like in Spain.

[foreigncorrespondent]

11. The liberal party did win!

They have been winning for the last ten years. Of course being lefties we don't want the liberal party here in power. They are as bad as the neocons.

Two years ago, with the help of our progressive (if you can call it that) party (The Australian Labor Party) they managed to pass a bill banning any and all recognition of same sex marriages. What you fear over there, has already happened here. Today you speak to someone who is a second class citizen in her own country.

On edit: they wrote the discrimination into our constitution.

[dsc]

13. So if tomorrow the progressives came to power they couldn't reverse course

I didn't think that was possible in a Parilimentary system. That totally sucks.

[foreigncorrespondent]

15. They can...

...but they supported it. They helped it pass. So why would they back peddle?

[dsc]

18. for the same reason other liberal parties have changed their minds

they know better.

[foreigncorrespondent]

26. But the luberals here in Oz...

...don't know better. They are the right wing here. And the left wing is just as bad.

[Ms. Toad]

16. I just learned that Canada

doesn't recognize Massachusetts marriages for purposes of immigration into Canada. (Friends who were married there are trying to figure out how to be able to live together as a family - immigration to the US was out of the question, but I just assumed a legal marriage regardless of where it was created would be treated the same by Canada.)

Since same gender marriages are entitled to equal recognition in Canada, that shocked me.

[dsc]

17. I find that very difficult to believe

Even places such as Britain and France which don't honor same sex marriages do permit same sex couples to immigrate. I wonder if Harper had anything to do with this.

[Ms. Toad]

29. Don't know.

What they have been told is that their Massachusetts marriage is not recognizable for purposes of immigration. I pushed them quite a bit on it, since some Massachusetts marriages are legally questionable because folks who did not live in Mass got married while visiting there - and I could grudgingly see Canada not wanting to recognize a marriage that ultimately may not be recognized where it was created. One of them is a Mass resident, so their marriage is not one that was in danger of being declared null.

There may be other ways to immigrate (and they are looking into it) - but they have a marriage which is legally recognized where it was created and they should not have to find another way.

[foreigncorrespondent]

25. Please advise your friends...

...that Canada already has immigration rights for same sex couples. It is a lot easier for one to be a Canadian citizen, but they do have it.

If both are not Canadian citizens then one can apply to immigrate, and can sponsor the other to immigrate. :)

Hope this helps.

[Ms. Toad]

28. Not so simple.

One is a Canadian citizen, they have legal marriage that was created in Massachusetts, but that marriage is not being recognized by Canadian immigration. They are working with legal counsel on this, so if there is a way to get around it I am sure they will figure it out

[foreigncorrespondent]

30. What I am saying is...

...they don't need the marriage to be recognized in order to gain immigration for the foreign partner. Canada is one of the 15 countries which currently allow same sex immigration. If one is a Canadian then they are set.

[Ms. Toad]

31. I understood what you were saying,

and am sure they are looking into that.

My point is that in a jurisdiction which recognizes same gender marriages (Yay!) they should not have their marriage treated as different from straight marriages (Boo!).

In the US my spouse and I have to do all sorts of things to obtain rights which are granted as a matter of law to straight folks who are married. Generally they cost additional time, money, and are not as solid or sure as the automatic grant that occurs instantaneously when a mixed gender couple marries. For example, in order to obtain health insurance for my spouse I had to fill out a significant amount of additional paperwork and have two or three consultations with the attorney for the health insurance company because the document we were initially asked to sign required us to assert, under penalty of perjury, that we were not married. Since we are legally married (its must not recognized by the governmental jurisdiction in which we live) that could have caused significant problems down the road (not the least of which might have been the loss of three professional licenses between us for commission of perjury).

I am extremely grateful that we could obtain health insurance without having to put my spouse on the payroll. So many cannot, and do not have an employer supportive enough to go to the extreme measure of being willing to put a spouse on the payroll to make him/her eligible. BUT if I lived in Canada, a jurisdiction which recognizes same gender marriage, I would extremely angry to be required to jump through additional hoops that straight married couples are not required to jump through. Sort of makes my marriage second class, even if it otherwise bears the same name and documentation as straight folks.

[MarkDevin]

22. I'm so sorry your country had made you feel that way.

For whatever it's worth, I'm on your side!

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

10. I agree completely. It is just plain wrong. A while back I

and a lot of other DU'ers temporarily changed our avatars over to a Gay etc one in solidarity with our Gay, Lesbian etc brothers and sisters.

I hope you were here at the time and saw that, as it was pretty amazing how many did this.

It doesn't change anything, but maybe it helps to know how many of us do stand in solidarity with you.

It's the nature of this crowd in power to always find SOME issue to use to divide the nation.

Recommended

[Solly Mack]

12. I was told the other day that the GLBT community was "fringe"

and "living outside the accepted values of society" and therefore "didn't deserve the same rights" in an attempt to explain why "gay marriage" isn't about human rights.

The thread was locked by the time I saw the comment.

To have to fight to be seen as human...and a citizen...worthy of basic human respect and decency...worthy of the same rights as others...that such a thing is even being debated...offends the the very being.

[MarkDevin]

23. I've had it out with so many ignorant homophobes over the years...

One time, a couple of thugs even roughed me up in a Denny's parking because I "look(ed) like a faggot." Guess that's part of the reason why I feel such solidarity with the GLBT community.

[Maven]

14. Kicking

[NMMNG]

19. They're all just a bunch of hateful jerks

who use their religion to hide their bigotries behind.

[MarkDevin]

20. I may be hetero, but I'm 100% in favor of same-sex marriage.

At the risk of sounding cliched, some of my best friends are GLBT. One of them has a T-shirt that says, "FUCK TOLERANCE - I WANT EQUALITY!" To which I say, "Right on!"

[charlie]

24. Chutzpah and cowardice

Whenever they want to stir up the pitchfork brigades, Santorum types hit the floor to share their perverse fantasies, they cobble together some legislation, and then... instead of giving it an honest name like Throw the Queers Off the Building Act, they disown responsibility, flip it around, and call it Defense of Marriage. Look what YOU forced us to do! Word goes out to the media about the GAY AGENDA and the bobbleheads warn about the coming tide of sodomy. As a final insult, every lurid rant about the Gay Menace is wrapped in a disclaimer about hating the sin, but loving the sinner. Lowball gutter-dwelling chickenshits. The lot of them. Including Idiot Nation, who fall for it over and over.

[xchrom]

27. legalizing hate.

that's all these votes do.

the worst part is -- i don't believe that very many people actualy believe in their hate -- they simply pass the lies on and on for the sake of power and control.

and controling peoples genitals and who they can mate with is one of the oldest forms of control.

and of course the ''winner'' gets to write the history.

now we have to get ready for the waves of hate re: the endless wells of hate called churches and the adoption and fostering of children.

it's gonna be a bumpy ride.