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rndmprsn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:46 AM
Original message
Why Democrats Don't Count - Greg Palast
From his subscription based e-mails...

this line near the end basically says it all:

"The GOP knows the key to their electoral domination is NOT in winning over their opponents' votes, but in not counting them."

anyhow...this is a very interesting email....read on.

--

The Exit polls said he won, but the "official" tally took his victory away. His supporters found they were scrubbed off voter rolls. Violence and intimidation kept even more of his voters away from the polls. Hundreds of thousands of ballots supposedly showed no choice for president -- like ballots with hanging chads.

And the officials in charge of this suspect election refused to re-count those votes in public. Everyone knew full well a fair count would certainly change the outcome.

You've heard this story before: Gore 2000. Kerry 2004.

But Lopez Obrador 2006 is made out of very different stuff than the scarecrow candidates who, oddly, call themselves "Democrats."

For six years now, I've had this crazy fantasy in my head.
In it, an election is stolen and the guy who's declared the loser stands up in front of the White House and says three magic words: "Count the votes."

This past Saturday, my dream came true. Unfortunately, it was in Spanish -- but I'll take what I can get. There was Andreas Manuel Lopez Obrador, presidential challenger, standing in the "Zocalo" -- the square in front of Mexico's White House, telling the ruling clique inside, "Count the votes!"

Most important, his simple demand was echoed by half a million pissed-off, activated voters chanting with him, "Vota por vota!" -- vote by vote.

And you know what? I think they are going to have to listen. I suspect that the rulers of Mexico, a vicious, puffed-up, arrogant elite, may well have to count those votes. But, for that to happen, someone had to ask them to do it -- in no uncertain terms.

Traveling the USA, I'm asked again and again 'Why don't Democrats stand up when their elections are stolen?'

The answer: for the same reason jellyfish don't stand up... they're invertebrates.


I'm beginning to find that answer a bit too glib (though darn funny). Because it's not about electoral cojones; it's about a devotion to democracy deep in the bone. Yet weirdly, candidates that call themselves "Democrats" seem kind of, well, indifferent to democracy.

Why? Elections are the radical tool of the working class -- the great leveler of the powerless against the too-powerful. But the candidates themselves, both Republican and Democrat, tend to come from the privileged and pampered class. Votes are just the surfboards on which their ambitions ride.

Right now in Mexico's capitol, nearly a million ballots sit in tied bundles uncounted. That's four times the "official" margin of victory of the ruling party over Lopez Obrador. Supposedly, they're "votos nulos" -- null votes, unreadable. But, not surprisingly, when a few packets were opened, the majority of these supposedly unreadable votes were Lopez Obrador's.

If you think that's a Mexican game, think again. Because that's exactly what happened in Florida and Ohio.

In Florida, 179,855 ballots supposedly showed no vote for President. A closer look by the US Civil Rights Commission statisticians showed that 54% of those Florida "votos nulos" were cast by African-Americans. Did Black folk forget to vote for President, couldn't make up their minds or, as one TV network implied, were too dumb to figure out the ballot? Not at all. Machines can't count some ballots. But people can. For example, several voters wrote in, "Al Gore," which the machines rejected as his name was already printed on the ballot. The write-in could fool a machine but a human has no problem figuring out that voter's intent.

The National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago reviewed all 179,855 "uncountable" votes and found the majority attempted to choose Gore. And they would have been counted -- but Florida's Secretary of State, Katherine Harris, ordered a halt.

So Bush was elected not by counting the votes but by preventing their count. And he was reelected the same way in 2004 when a quarter million votes were nullified in Ohio.

But why fixate on Florida and Ohio? Here's a nasty little fact about voting in the Land of the Free not reported in your newspapers: 3,600,380 ballots were cast in the November 2004 presidential election that were never counted. In 2000, the uncounted ballots totaled just under two million.

And where were the Democrats? In 2004, behind the huge jump in uncounted votes was a mass challenge campaign aimed at poor, Black and Hispanic voters by the Republican Party -- pushing these voters, mostly Democrats, to "provisional ballots." They could have been counted, if someone had fought for it. Hundreds of lawyers were on stand-by but the head of the biggest legal team told me in confidence -- and in frustration -- that the Kerry campaign told them to stand down.

Recently, Al Gore was asked if the election of 2000 was stolen. "There may come a time when I speak on that, but it's not now," said the beta dog. (I suspect that if Al Gore were found bleeding in an alley, he'd answer the question, Who shot you? with "There may come a time when I speak on that...").

Lopez Obrador is of a different breed. At the rally last Saturday in Mexico City, he played video and audio tapes of the evidence of fraud on a screen eighty feet tall. Imagine if Gore had projected the "scrub sheets" of purged Black voters on a ten-story-high screen in front of the White House.

Lopez Obrador put political force behind his legal demands by calling on voters from every state in Mexico to march to the capital. Two million are expected to arrive this Sunday. The result: the word among the political classes is that the election may be annulled. Even the conservative Financial Times has warned Mexico's elite not to "fool itself" by ignoring the demand for a full vote count.

North-of-the-Border Democrats just don't get it. The Republican Party is pushing "provisional" ballots, pushing voter ID requirements, compiling secret challenge lists, scrubbing voter registries and selling us vote-nullifying ballot boxes: they get it completely. The GOP knows the key to their electoral domination is not in winning over their opponents' votes, but in not counting them.

The un-Gore of Mexico City has a lesson for the Blue-party gringos. Either the Democrats demand that all votes count, or the Democrats will count for nothing.

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. great minds
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. K & R nt
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. kick
Dems need to wake up. It's the elections, stupid.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm proud to be the fifth vote!
God's truth!

"But the candidates themselves, both Republican and Democrat, tend to come from the privileged and pampered class."

Maybe we can learn a thing or two about democracy from our neighbors to the South. Or perhaps we would rather sit on our collective fat asses and watch Law & Order reruns and bitch. We get the Government we deserve-look what we have...
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. 2006 may be our last chance
if it's not already too late.


Every day, I curse the spineless bastards who let the GOP get away with it.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
6. Great article -- but not fair to Al Gore
Edited on Fri Jul-14-06 07:12 AM by HamdenRice
Al Gore actually fought for the counting of every vote all the way to the Supreme Court. After that, there was nothing he could do. If you look at the quote Palast took, it came from a magazine article that I think was Bobby Kennedy's Rolling Stone article about election theft. Right after that, Gore said, after the Supreme Court, there is nothing but violent revolution -- or something to that effect. Gore completely gets it.

That's why I am so disgusted with Kerry. Kerry supporters on DU have convinced me that he is indeed a fine senator from Massachussets, but I truly hope he never runs for national office again after sending John Edwards out to say every vote will be counted and then conceding just hours later.

2000 Election

Election day: November 7, 2000
Gore's concession: December 13, 2000


2004 Election

Election Day November 2, 2004
Kerry's concession November 3, 2004


There really is no comparison.
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jarnocan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. good point I also like how when on Jon Stewart's showand ???!
when Jon joked about him maybe holding a grudge against Florida- he saino -because he carried actually Florida http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/most_recent/index.jhtml some great video clips here- Al Gore, Helen Thomas, John Dean.
Sh** wouldn't it be great if Greg Palst could get on this show _ i think that would be AWESOME!!!!!
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Gore knew it was about something bigger than himself: our democracy
Kerry always thought it was some sort of personal test. God was testing John. We were merely collateral damage. The inner debate was:

"How will it make me look?"

.
And his supporters perpetuate this narcissistic petty concept even now, with the shining example of Mexico. When some say "that's what kerry sould have done" they retort: "and make himself look ridiculous?"
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Another aspect of the Gore-Kerry comparison
Edited on Fri Jul-14-06 08:35 AM by HamdenRice
When the election was stolen from Gore in 2000, the whole idea of vast Republican election theft was unprecedented. To paraphrase Condi Rice, no one expected that Republicans would use a vast, diverse system of election fraud. Yet Gore fought it more over a month while being ridiculed in the press.

When the election was stolen in 2004, Kerry knew exactly what to expect. He had armies of lawyers deployed around the country. The weekend before the election, tens of thousands of Democrats were lining up to cast paper ballots.

2004 looked like South Africa 1994. People were so pumped up to dump the chimp in chief. Everyone knew what the Republicans were going to try to do.

There was even a lot of discussion in the months leading up to the election that Bush would cancel the elections on national security grounds, an idea that was not tin foil hat, but that the Bush administration itself floated.

For Kerry to concede the next morning was not just cowardly, but bizarre.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
27. Gore actually called Bush and conceded 13 hours earlier than Kerry!
Election Day, 10 p.m.
Networks retract projection that Gore wins Florida; state reverts to too close to call.

Nov. 8, 2:20 a.m.

Gore calls Bush to concede after networks report the governor leads by 50,000 votes in Florida. Networks project Bush to be the winner in Florida.

Nov. 8, 3:30 a.m.
Gore calls Bush back to retract his concession, after receiving reports that the vote difference in Florida is less than 1,000. Networks retract projection that Bush wins Florida; state reverts to too close to call.


http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/c2k/amazing_race/timeline.html



So with 87,000 votes less than Kerry to make up, Gore conceded.


When it comes to the facts about Kerry, Palast doesn't get it right!

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jarnocan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
7. This should rally US also just bought his book and on flickR
he has a little contest going. http://www.flickr.com/photos/gregpalast/

"Take a picture of you and your friends in front of your local bookstore where Armed Madhouse is on display. If the book is not in the window, find out why, convince the store manager to place it there!
If they simply won't have it then hold up a copy of the book anyway or be creative ..."


not that creative but at the local Barnes and Noble his book was on the new arrival dispaly area as well as in current events on a display and regular shelf.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jarnocan/
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rndmprsn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. cool...
i will do this, thanks
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pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
9. K&R - Greg Palast does it again
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
10. And that's where I come in: 1 stolen election, 2 stolen elections - ha!ha!
I remember a time, in 2000 when we had protests in NYC and we chanted "Count Every Vote!" Our candidate told us that this was a legal matter and to go home. And this was the fighting candidate.
The next one sneered about crying in our teacups then burried his head in the sand when they did it to him.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Hi The Count!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. One thank you, two thank yous - ha-ha-ha-ha!
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global1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
11. You Should Re-Title Your Post To - Why They Don't Count Democrats....nt
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FredStembottom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
14. Finally! This is all I have been trying to say
In the face of all the postings around here about how Democrats really, truly are fighting for stuff (if you squint just right, play the speech in little chunks or think about it using a special thought-filter).

REAL fighting for stuff is unmistakable. It is big and splashy and may well involve 80 foot video screens but mostly it doesn't concede, compromise or congeal into something inert.

AND....Palast puts his finger on the ugly reason why our American fighting-for-stuff is so...um...weak: our Dem leaders are all from the "pampered classes". They don't really want to do rash things that might lead to the sight of you and me in the Senate chambers with our bad haircuts, screen-printed T-shirts and day-glo tennis shoes.

Joe Lieberman's outrage is the perfect betrayal of that sentiment - you and I don't have the right to challenge him!

Until you and I put people like you and I up for election, this will continue just as it has. Representative democracy doesn't mean that we are represented by our "betters" - it means that we elect people like us to represent us. Car mechanics and nurses are supposed to be in there, too - right next to the trust fund elite.
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
15. Palast suggests that Democrats don't care about voters, either!
Re-read this paragraph from his report:

"Why? Elections are the radical tool of the working class -- the great leveler of the powerless against the too-powerful. But the candidates themselves, both Republican and Democrat, tend to come from the privileged and pampered class. Votes are just the surfboards on which their ambitions ride."

The suggestion is that the Democratic candidates really don't have any passion for democracy, for the people whose votes they gather - same as the Republicans.

In 1968, George Wallace left the Democratic Party to run a right-wing, racist, "populist" campaign. It was a foreshadowing of the failed Ross Perot campaign. The only memorable statement from his campaign was "there isn't a dime's worth of difference" between the Republicans and the Democrats.

Reading Palast's statement, that seems more true than ever.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. F*ck you, Greg Palast
If you don't think Kerry & Gore cared about the people they wanted to represent, then you are the biggest fucking dumbass on the planet. Including Norm Ornstein.

But Lopez Obrador 2006 is made out of very different stuff than the scarecrow candidates who, oddly, call themselves "Democrats."


Your writing is nothing but a bunch of disconnected teasers strung together, devoid of a thesis. That includes this and all of your lengthy and overwrought articles you keep flinging out into the lefty blogosphere. I suppose it feeds your big ego.
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jarnocan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Your book is much more in depth, and you will solve our problems?
What was the name of that book- or where is that Pulitzer Prize you won for the great article that showed everyone once and for all that the elctions were fraudulent?
Sure there are more issues, and many dems are not true pure heros, but pleaselink us to your GREAT contribution so we can resolve all these problems.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. kick for Palast
He's one of America's true heroes.
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kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. Great article--true of Kerry but not Gore
Gore thought that he had an agreement with Bushco to attack the many problems facing the country and the world in a bi-partisan fashion. Little did he know what evil lies at the heart of Bushco. Kerry on the other hand ... .
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. According to Palast, Kerry walked away and Gore is what? A wimp?
Kerry continued legal efforts:

Today, Kerry-Edwards filed a document in support of that statement. Most significant, Kerry-Edwards also filed today a separate document in support of our motion for hearing with two critical attachments: 1) a declaration from Kerry-Edwards attorney Don McTigue regarding a survey he conducted of Kerry-Edwards county recount coordinators; 2) a summary chart of the results of that survey (which highlight the inconsistent standards applied during the recount).

http://forum.truthout.org/blog/story/2005/2/24/183243/756

http://www.truthout.org/pdf/cobbbadnariktransfertatement22305.pdf
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardsmctiguedecl22405.pdf
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardsmotionforhearing22405.pdf
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardssummarychart22405.pdf (counting)
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardstransferstatement22405.pdf



As Conyers report stated:

Whether the cumulative effect of these legal violations would have altered the actual outcome is not known at this time. However, we do know that there are many serious and intentional violations which violate Ohio’s own law, that the Secretary of State has done everything in his power to avoid accounting for such violations, and it is incumbent on Congress to protect the integrity of its own laws by recognizing the seriousness of these legal violations.

B. Need for Further Congressional Hearings

It is also clear the U.S. Congress needs to conduct additional and more vigorous hearings into the irregularities in the Ohio presidential election and around the country.


While we have conducted our own Democratic hearings and investigation, we have been handicapped by the fact that key participants in the election, such as Secretary of State Blackwell, have refused to cooperate in our hearings or respond to Mr. Conyers questions. While GAO officials are prepared to move forward with a wide ranging analysis of systemic problems in the 2004 elections, they are not planning to conduct the kind of specific investigation needed to get to the bottom of the range of problems evident in Ohio. As a result, it appears that the only means of obtaining his cooperation in any congressional investigation is under the threat of subpoena, which only the Majority may require.

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/issues/issues/election.html



Almost a year later:

August 31, 2005

Kerry and Edwards to Stay in Recount Case!!! Trial to Start in August 2006

Don McTigue, attorney for John Kerry and John Edwards, appeared in federal court in Toledo, before Judge Carr, on August 30th, and told the Court that Kerry and Edwards intend to remain in the case.

Judge Carr set an August 22, 2006 trial date.

Additionally he consolidated the two recount cases, Rios v. Blackwell and Yost v. Cobb & Badnarik. He gave the plaintiffs until September 15th to file amended pleadings (plaintiff's counsel had requested an opportunity to streamline their claims).

Judge Carr set a discovery cut-off of May 1, 2006, and ruled that any summary judgment motions must be made by May 15, 2006.

http://fairnessbybeckerman.blogspot.com/2005/08/kerry-and-edwards-to-stay-in-recount.html



February 10, 2006

Associated Press Reports: Ohio Recount Suit Dismissed
According to the Associated Press, the Ohio recount suit has been dismissed:

Judge Dismisses Penultimate Ohio Lawsuit
By JOHN McCARTHY, Associated Press Writer
Thu Feb 9, 10:42 PM ET

COLUMBUS, Ohio - A federal judge has thrown out a lawsuit over Ohio's recount of the 2004 presidential election, leaving only one court challenge remaining from the state's role in the re-election of President Bush.

U.S. District Judge James Carr in Toledo threw out the suit filed by a voting rights group on behalf of the Green Party and Libertarian candidates. Tuesday's dismissal, barring an appeal, leaves active only a suit filed by the League of Women Voters of Ohio.

http://fairnessbybeckerman.blogspot.com/2006/02/associated-press-reports-ohio-recount.html



As RFK stated in his article:

By midnight, the official tallies showed a decisive lead for George Bush -- and the next day, lacking enough legal evidence to contest the results, Kerry conceded.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/1



The difference:

The official reports indicated that Gore won the popular vote and was a few hundred votes away from winning the electoral vote. In Kerry's case, the reports indicated that he won neither, and that he was behind more than 135,000 votes in Ohio.



Looks like Palast omitted the facts in this piece!
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
23. Great article
I just have to add that annulling the election is the most just result and the safest for democracy. Counting the votes- and even Palast concentrates on the scrubbing and prevention of ballots- is NOT enough if fraud has eliminated the possibility of retrieving those votes. A large part in Kerry's concession was in feeling the math of the decimated ballots available and the math of getting to them through a phalanx of GOP cheaters was not possible enough to warrant a war against the establishment and media stonewall against even the IMAGINED possibility of such accountability.

Gore closed the gap. Kerry found and accepted the new light years of distance the GOP had put between the voter and the count.

Just as inevitable was the intent of the Kerry campaign NOT to be able to deal with the magnitude or nature of the fraud or the inevitable propaganda war that covered it. No Gore there, not even a semblance. The results of surrender have not demonstrated any particular wisdom in never looking at or attempting to get to first base of a fair election.

Sure, I can list dozens of reasons why Kerry could never have won any such challenge. I knew of several why Gore was doomed from the outset.

But the cost of doing nothing is automatically losing everything, real deaths, real crimes, real crises- and NONE of it the real choice of the people and all of it a killing lie. No putative opposition leader to a COUP D'ETAT has any mandate from his majority voters to surrender to a lie- and then erase any whisper of truth.

Obrador may still "lose" too. Most likely it must mean the real death of democracy in its real meaning.
But the people will have a voice and that voice will always be NO. Or humanity perishes with its freedom.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
24. K & R
It's apparent it must be in the dems favor to be in the minority if they refuse to address this salient topic. Not doing so preserves the fiction that there are two opposing parties and we live in a representative republic while it serves only to promote the fascist agenda of the RWers.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-14-06 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. Links to threads on three earlier Palast articles on the stolen Mexican
Edited on Fri Jul-14-06 11:06 PM by Nothing Without Hope
election:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=437351
thread title (6-30-06): STEALING MEXICO - by Greg Palast

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1556158
thread title (7-3-06): Dispatch from Mexico City: Stealing it in Front of Your Eyes - Greg Palast

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x439021
thread title (7-8-06): Mexico and Florida have more in common than heat-Greg Palast/The Guardian

Kerry let us all down at a crucial point in US and world history. Obrador is of a different breed.

K & R
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-15-06 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
26. Palast is the best the Dem's are fucked unless they stand up,,,,,,,
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