Timing of Lay death may mean verdicts will be overturned...

[JackRiddler]

Incredibly, Lay's death (?) came within a period of time when it may mean that his conviction will be overturned and the US government will be rendered unable to recover stolen assets - there are ample legal precedents.

Now keep in mind the level of fraud that Enron achieved, as well as the level of influence that Lay achieved - he practically owned the cabinet. Is a faked death scenario really so outlandish?

http://accounting.smartpros.com/x53781.xml

As sudden and unexpected as Lay's death was, government prosecutors were studying the possibility that legal precedent might require the indictment against him to be dismissed, and his conviction erased. Under that scenario, the government could not collect the $44 million it demanded he forfeit in a court filing last week.

Former prosecutor Ellen Podgor, a law professor at Stetson University College of Law, said, "It's a very strong precedent, as clear as it could be. In the Lay case, it will mean he does not die as a convicted felon. It will be as if his conviction does not exist."

(snip)

In April 2004, the appeals court for the 5th Circuit -- the same jurisdiction as the Enron trial -- reviewed a jury's conviction of Waco businessman Andrew Parsons, who allegedly set fire to his property and was charged with arson, fraud and money laundering.

Parsons died during his appeal. The appeals court then ordered the lower court to vacate Parsons' conviction, sentence, indictment and $1.3 million in restitution to defrauded insurance companies, though it allowed the government to keep $1 million Parsons had forfeited. The judges found that after his death, "Everything associated with the case is extinguished, leaving the defendant as if he had never been indicted or convicted."

[wakeme2008]

1. And Lay knew this before he "died"

IMHO, I think there is only a 25% chance he is really dead. If his funeral is closed casket... I would then move to ZERO percent...

[rzemanfl]

2. Shouldn't the defense have to prove he is REALLY dead before

this precedent would apply? That would be interesting. I wonder if Texas uses the "suggestion of death" procedure?

[WhiteTara]

3. it is a cremation and no evidence will

be left behind. :shrug:

[Junkdrawer]

4. Cremation, guest coroner, called 9-11 at 1:15 AM and by early afternoon...

his body was autopsied and released. Yeah, nothing to see here, move along...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1582225

[rzemanfl]

6. We need to stick a detective or two on that "guest coroner"

-watch his purchases and offshore financial transactions...

[LiberalArkie]

5. I was wondefing why he was still in the U.S.

If I had his assets, when the conviction was announced, I would have told my chauffer to take me to my jet. I guess he had another plan...

[shadowknows69]

7. They flew the FBI to Iraq to ID Zarqawii

I think we need to scrape the corpse's cheek and get some hair from a comb at home.

[acmejack]

8. Such theories have been amply derided upon this board.

Many members here have felt compelled to hold forth and expound upon the amount of amusement such theories provide them personally and the embarrassment such posts should cause us all. Apparently any speculation along these lines shame DU just as any alternative 9/11 scenarios instantly demonstrate one's very sanity must be subject to question.

We all know that the Government of the United States would never dream of deceiving it's citizens! Over twohundred and thirty years of history have proven that our Government is totally beyond reproach and their word is their bond!

[WiseButAngrySara]

9. A "faked death scenario" is as plausible as suicide, IMO. I tend to vote

for the later. The timing of his death is way too convenient. He was well informed of all of the possible outcomes, and chose suicide with cremation, so that trace elements of substances that wouldn't show up with routine toxicological analysis would never be detected.

The Cause of Death, as ASCVD (atherosclerotic coronary vascular disease) or CAD (coronary artery disease) is the most common cause of death in this country, as it is almost always found after age 50 years or so, to some degree. Infants in this country have evidence of early atherosclerosis as evidenced by so-called 'fatty streaks' in the aorta, thought to be the earliest precursor lesion in the development of Atherosclerotic plaques. This is an overused diagnosis for Cause of Death in this country, IMHO, as it is usually found in adults, and it is often the only visible evidence of disease. Fatal heart arrhythmias can't be visualized for example, and only after every other anatomical defect has been excluded as a cause of death, can a fatal arrhythmia be attributed as a cause of death.

I don't buy the coroner's cause of death in this case, even with anatomical evidence of a previous M.I., which only states that there was scar tissue in the heart muscle. This is also a common finding in his age and risk group.

I vote for suicide with an attempt at cover-up. His tissue should be saved and frozen for future analysis; bones, blood and soft tissue. He should not be cremated until such tissue samples are stored.

[stepnw1f]

10. Well, If He Is Still Alive, He Has to Die Again

maybe it'll be more painful and slow.

[JackRiddler]

11. Technically, is this incitement to murder?

Is that possible with an officially dead guy?

Dreaming of this being true and exposed (impossible) - the hilarity that would ensue!

[stepnw1f]

12. incitement to murder? Hell No...

but a possibility that when he dies, it's not a quick as before.

[JackRiddler]

13. just playing with you

to kick the thread ;)

[stepnw1f]

14. Got Me

}(

[a kennedy]

15. I heard a caller on Jerry Springer today say none of Kenny Lay's

friends were notified of the funeral. :shrug: