They're talking about the possibility of $4 and $5 for a gallon of

[cornermouse]

gas to tv this morning... War in Iraq... Rumors of war in Iran...

:think:

Any questions about who's really running this country? I'm thinking impeachment followed by nationalization of the oil companies would be a good start.

[sam sarrha]

1. only hope is a military coup.. soon, f*cking idiots will be the end of US

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

2. I heard that...

Sounds like energy stocks will continue to rise.

[wakeme2008]

3. And the Grand Oil Party will see their numbers drop again

IMHO they are tied to close to Oil.

[RagingInMiami]

4. I would like to see the look on the faces of all the

Hummer owners when they hear news like that.

[theHandpuppet]

15. Got news for you -- they don't care

There's a Hummer owner (big-ass black model, loaded with tinted windows) not too far from my house who sports the personalized plates, "GASHOG". Do you think he cares how much his gas costs, in either blood or oil?

[Swamp Rat]

18. I will be too heavy for donkeys to pull

[Dirty Hippie]

5. Could someone answer this question?

Are there real reasons for the almost 200% increase in the price of gas over the last 5 or 6 years?

I know about peak oil, but I believe if prices are increasing due to a peak oil decline in supply then the rise in prices would be much more gradual.

I am also aware of the loss of refining capacity due to the hurricanes but you would figure that prices would drop as refineries come back on line.

I just wonder how many of these factor are in some measure excuses for Enron-style price manipulation.

BTW: Although I don't like paying more for gas I do think the increase in prices has a silver lining if it gets us into more fuel efficient vehicles. It just chaps me to think we are all being snookered.

Any thoughts?

[cornermouse]

6. My thought is that I already went out and got a hybrid

because the thought of paying $40 and $50 for a tank of gas was stressing me out and apparently I'm going to be forced to spend that anyway.

:nuke:

Snookered is too nice a word. Ripped off is more accurate.

[gramsciforza]

7. supply-demand-greed

China and India are the biggest reason for the increase in price. Remember they are paying 75 dollars a barrell also. Chinese are buying cars at an alarming rate. I guess they didn't regard riding those old one speed bikes as quaint. There are new super highways all around the cities and more are being built. The change in China is beyond drastic. I believe I heard that they have surpassed japan as the second largest importer of oil and India is not far behind and neither of these countries have much or any oil of their own. So there are more people who want the oil.

On the other hand, greedy capitalists are bumping up the price with their rumors of war. It is only justice that the oppressed countries of the world have most of the oil. America will fall,. ironically , the same way the Nazis fell, by cutting off their oil supply. Fittingly ironic if you ask me and without oil Americans will feel poverty like those they have oppressed. It is only the wheel turning as fate brings America its "downsizing". Good riddance to American hegemony!

[cornermouse]

9. Thanks for letting us know that you hate us.

[ClintonTyree]

22. I don't think the poster "hates us".......

he/she is merely stating a fact. America was built on greed and excessive, conspicuous consumption of ALL the world's resources. "The American Dream" is coming back to haunt us and in the end will be it's downfall. America has been a gross pig at the world's trough but now it's finding that it cannot sate it's gluttony, that there are OTHER pigs that want to be fed as well. Newer pigs, younger pigs, stronger pigs....they're pushing America away from the trough but the old pig won't move over graciously. It's going to employ a "scorched trough" policy to sustain it's ravenous appetite.

Our country has acted heinously to the rest of the world over the last century or so and it's all coming back to haunt us. Not hate, fact.

[AndyA]

11. China is a big factor in demand for oil.

They have a booming economy, and the Chinese people are buying cars and traveling like never before in their history.

Think about that next time you fill up your tank with ever-increasing gasoline. Also, remember that when you pull in to Wal-Mart to buy your cheap imported (from China) goods. Wal-Mart is a big reason things have changed so much in China, they are one of the country's biggest customers. The money you save shopping at Wal-Mart is being used up at the gas pump, plus some.

Plus, you are undermining the American economy and hurting job growth. Not shopping at Wal-Mart is one thing every American can do to support America.

[mhr]

10. www.theoildrum.com

All these issues and more are explored in lavish detail.

[Dirty Hippie]

38. Thanks for the link - will bookmark for later n/t

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. Peak oil + increased demand

Worldwide demand for oil has increased significantly; from about 71m bbl/day in 1996, to 76m bbl/day in 2000, to about 83-84m bbl/day now. Total global production capacity is in the range of 84.5-85 million barrels/day. As you can see from these figures, there's essentially zero surplus, and small supply disruptions and shortfalls can cause large price increases, since the margin between production capacity and consumption is now razor-thin (unlike years past, when there was a margin of several million barrels per day in excess production capacity over what was consumed).

[WinkyDink]

14. Big Oil raised prices ....because it can. Nothing too deep there!

[bananas]

17. rising tension in the middle east

adjusted for inflation, gas prices are doing the same thing they did during "America held hostage".
http://oregonstate.edu/Dept/pol_sci/fac/sahr/gasol.htm

[ClintonTyree]

23. And WHY is there tension in the Middle East?

Oil man George W. Bush, that's why. It's been their plan all along. That's why 9/11 was such a god-send to the neo-cons, they could finally apply their PNAC plans for world domination without so much as a whimper of opposition. We don't want to appear "unpatriotic" now, do we? :eyes: 9/11 was the event these evil bastards were waiting for, which makes one wonder (or it should) just who was REALLY behind the attack on the World Trade Towers in the first place? Who had the most to gain from that attack? Was it, as we're led to believe, a rag-tag group of Islamic fundamentalists or was it a more sinister, domestic enemy? We'll probably never really know for sure but WHO has gained the most from it? The answer to that question is very simple.

[fordnut]

28. Re:

i think it's all a money thing Bush is wanting to make money
before he has to leave office and he is taking America with
him.so it's all a money Racket.

[Strelnikov_]

42. Actually Peak Oil Is Playing Out Just As Speculated

Demand for a price inelastic commodity chasing too little, and eventually declining, supply. Price transients (what we are just beginning to see) will wreak economic havoc similar to the 70' shocks. A persistent recession will ensue.

But it is the thermodynamic aspect of peak oil that will lead to the 2nd Great Depression. As the decline in conventional oil accelerates, EROEI (thermodynamics) will at a minimum severely depress, and possibly destroy, capitalist economies.

All of the post-peak supply mitigation options have net energy returns well below those of even today’s conventional oil. This means we will have to work hard just to replace the Quads of conventional oil energy lost. Growth in energy supply will not be possible, therefore economic growth will also not be possible .

Even with all the stresses on the economy mentioned in this thread, with sound leadership we could probably recover from these after a long/deep recession. The peaking of conventional oil appears to be the punch that could knock us over because the Fed and our political leadership do not seem to see it coming, as evidenced by their actions and ‘official’ estimates (EIA, USGS, etc.).

[B Calm]

8. Now that we have a Texas Oil President, watch the price of gas

go down! Right after George stolen the first election in 2000, I had a republican co-worker tell me that!

[cornermouse]

13. Maybe the oil supply situation is too important to be handled

by the private sector if it is so central to our survival that we're going to start one or more wars over it.

One of the reasons that I was and still am in opposition to privatization of government services is due to the fact that this IS the party who did and still does push deregulation of various industries. We've seen where deregulation took us. Higher prices for less services.

[Strelnikov_]

43. Peal Oil Means The End Of Laissez-Faire Faire Energy Planning

if we are to survive, that is.

In the coming world of energy scarcity, the current ‘free-market’ dynamic will be incapable of providing a relatively stable energy supply. We will need a diverse, redundant and integrated energy infrastructure that will require planning and coordination far beyond what ‘market signals’ (ie: price) can provide.

Once we have established a USEA (U.S. Energy Authority) that provides centralized planning for the energy infrastructure, we can begin basing infrastructure development on an energy balance basis. This would hopefully avoid the building of inefficient systems, an example of which is the ethanol plant being built 7 mi. east of where I am now. This plant will burn coal to produce a liquid fuel with an EPR of 1 (corn ethanol) when you could produce a liquid fuel with an EPR of 5 from the coal directly.

Realistic efficiency standards and development of alternative energy sources should have begun long ago.

This is different from the 70‘s in that supply will never rebound. The 70’s were short term shocks, efficiency and additional production eventually led to lower prices. This promises to be slow strangulation, concluding with a massive shock that will bring our economic system to it’s knees. With supply chronically outstripping supply, we are one Gulf of Mexico hurricane (Katrina 2) or one revolution (MEND?) away.

Should have re-elected Carter.

Hope everyone enjoyed their ‘Morning In America’.

Peaking of World Oil Production: Impacts, Mitigation and Risk Management.
Hirsch, Bezdek, Wendling, February 2005

www.projectcensored.org/newsflash/The_Hirsch_Report_Proj_Cens.pdf (.pdf)

. . .

Because conventional oil production decline will start at the time of peaking, crash program mitigation inherently cannot avert massive shortages unless it is initiated well in advance of peaking.

Specifically,
* Waiting until world conventional oil production peaks before initiating crash program mitigation leaves the world with a significant liquid fuel deficit for two decades or longer.
* Initiating a crash program 10 years before world oil peaking would help considerably but would still result in a worldwide liquid fuels shortfall, starting roughly a decade after the time that oil would have otherwise peaked.
* Initiating crash program mitigation 20 years before peaking offers the possibility of avoiding a world liquid fuels shortfall for the forecast period.

Without timely mitigation, world supply/demand balance will be achieved through massive demand destruction (shortages), accompanied by huge oil price increases, both of which would create a long period of significant economic hardship worldwide.

[Roland99]

16. You know what will help! Tax Cuts for the Oil Companies!!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

19. Oh yes, nationalised oil is a great idea.

So that whenever the republicans are in power, they'll actually own the oil, rather than just being in cahoots with the oil producers. Lovely idea.

[papau]

24. If they can't make personal money from the oil they'll not screw it up -so

Government owning is actually a good solution (albeit then hire the current private companies to run it under contract to the government).

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

26. The sure as hell will be able to make money from it.

What you are suggesting is somewhat akin to the arrangement between the DoD and military hardware corporations. In other words, a cesspool of graft.

[papau]

40. Think of Medicare and Health Ins companies doing ASO contracts

The expense ratio in Administrative Services Only Contracts is better than any private Insurance operation by a factor of 5 because it goes out to public bid with a few hundred companies hungry for the business - it is a great way to do social programs. There is no pretend need for "risk capital" returns to be built in to the expense, or "innovative motivating management that needs back dated stock options as incentive in addition to annual bonus in the 10's of millions for each of the top management", or stockholder dividend returns of 15% annually on implied capital in use - all crap I have seen to justify the rip off by private companies of the Health system.

Granted the corruption of Halliburton/Carlyle/and the rest of the military industrial complex via the bribe of a high paid job after their DOD career to those with with contracting influence today is an example of contracting out with lousy results. And the corruption of the Pres/VP makes it even worse, esp. where they can make decisions that favor their personal oil holdings and their friends in the Energy industry. But the military industrial complex is not nationalized now - which is what allows private stockholder profits to be made from today's contracting decisions

The idea that "the republicans are in power" means that they'd own the oil for personal profit if we nationalized the oil industry is an assertion of the impossible. as they would own nothing that they can make a profit from.

The only value of being in "in cahoots with the oil producer" workers would be the ability to place friends in jobs - and even that ends with the use of bidded Administrative Services Only Contracts.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Justice Is Comin]

20. When you see our president kissing Arabs,

there's nothing hard to figure out. I just wish everybody could see that picture.

[fordnut]

29. when you see president kissing arabs

I seen it on tv and I was disgusted and pissed off he is a trader to his own country for money!!!!!!!!!!!

[Theres-a]

30. Bush is a trader!!!11!

seriesly.

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. !

:spray:

[FloridaPat]

21. That would mean a $60 billion profit for Exxon?

[TheCowsCameHome]

25. Possibility? Possibility? Just wait...................

and you won't have to wait too long.

[The Anti-Neo Con]

27. The only good thing about $4-$5/gal gas...

is that it'll doom the GOP in November. It will make them so unpopular that they won't even be able to steal this one.

[global1]

31. One Can Only Hope That As The Price of Gas Goes Up - *'s Poll ....

numbers will continue to go down.

[Theres-a]

32. From the stock market thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2375767&mesg_id=2375836

[SammyWinstonJack]

34. I thought pResident Lying A$$hole, claimed that the Iraq wAR

would be paid for with Iraqi oil? :eyes: Hey FReeps, remember when the Liar said that? Well, at least he didn't "lie" about SEX! :scared: That would be so much worse! Right FReeps? :banghead:

[sinkingfeeling]

35. It's the Cheney Engery Task Force plan! The poor oil companies aren't

happy with their record-breaking profits...they want more and this is preparing us to accept it.

[WI_DEM]

36. the only bright spot is that $4 or $5/gallon gas will do more to

defeat the Republicans than anything.

[B3Nut]

37. Up to 3.04-3.09 for regular in Madison now

It had been holding at 2.89-2.95 for weeks. Just paid 3.04/gal this morning to fill up my trusty Kia. Good thing I average a bit over 30mpg..I shudder to think what a big vehicle would cost on a regular basis. I borrowed a minivan last weekend to haul my Hammond B-3 to a gig, it cost $44 to fill up!!! Only used 1/8 of a tank (not bad for Madison-Janesville and back), but I hate to borrow a vehicle and not fill it up...

Todd in Beerbratistan

[kestrel91316]

39. I just hope that if it gets that high, it waits until October to do it.

I REALLY don't like the idea of riding my bike to work in 110+ heat.

[CK_John]

44. In another thread, they were reporting 4.00 in Aspen n/t