I had lunch today with some fellow Army officers

[Squatch]

we went to a restaurant outside of Ft Stewart, GA. There were seven of us in the group and we get around to talking about GWB, the war, etc, etc, etc.

I pipe up and say that this war is being waged on fraudulent grounds and we should be seeking an endstate, most lickety-split.

The guy I said this to gave me a sidelong glance and said that I should speak that way of our CinC, to which I replied: "Hey, I'm one of the few liberals in this Army, and I'm proud of that."

To my surprise, two others in our party chimed in and said "You're not the only one" and "Join the club".

THEN, the first one raised her glass in the middle of this restaurant crammed full of military folks and very loudly proclaimed "Pinko Liberals Unite!"

Ah, it was a very good moment.

The tide is turning in our military, my DU friends. The tide is turning.

[GardeningGal]

1. That's good to hear!

I hate what GWB has done to the active military and to veterans.

Thank you for your service!

:patriot:

[EFerrari]

2. What a relief that must be.

You know, BushCo NEVER trumpeted the "military" vote.

I always wondered what the real numbers were.

:toast:

[FloridaPat]

4. He did during the 2000 election. It was the military vote that got

him Florida.

[EFerrari]

6. Funny how that happened. In 2000. When thousands

of black folk were disenfranchised but the MILITARY vote brought him in during PEACE TIME.

:shrug:

[MADem]

9. Military vote, my ass--you try to find a military postal clerk who doesn't

know enough that any scrap of mail leaving their unit or vessel HAS to have a postmark. It's as clear as breathing to them, one of the FIRST rules, it comes right after DON'T LOSE ANY MONEY when selling stamps and money orders.

Yet thousands of "absentee ballots" from the "military" turned up without this basic postmark? Which must mean, at a minimum, that dozens and dozens of military postal clerks suddenly got STUPID and forgot to run sacks and sacks of mail through the machines???

Bullshit.

[FloridaPat]

13. You caught that! You weren't suppose to notice that detail!!

ANyway, in 2000 the military personnel were generally for * because Clinton wanted those darn gays in the military and had the "don't ask don't tell philosophy". Then of course, Clinton got all those college deferments and * actually served. For a few weeks, but in 2000 no one was counting. Especially the votes.

And Liberman was the one who kept saying that even if the military ballots didn't have a post mark, we must count them.

[MADem]

21. NO, I have to disagree with you there

At least sixty percent of my active duty colleagues (senior leadership, too) were for GORE. Why??? Because pay had increased very nicely under Clinton, he never failed to sign the four day weekend proclamations for the "good" holidays, and those of us who had major budgets for installation management or major program oversight were ROLLING IN FUCKING DOUGH.

We never had it so good--facilities improvements, upgrades to key systems and equipment, hell, they developed the damn drones under Clinton. The personnel drawdown that happened during that period was sketched out by SECDEF CHENEY under Bush One, and you haven't seen any significant additions to that number since Big Dick pulled that trick.

Also, when Deadeye Dick was SECDEF, I remember being poor as a junkyard dog, both in terms of personal salary and my available budget. It was hard as hell getting any dough for new programs, and I was constantly robbing one account to pay for things needed in another--and that got really bad during Desert Shield/Storm.

What they are doing right now is "Blue to Green"...booting people out of the USN and USAF, and giving them a shot at joining the shitty Army to finish out their careers (if they live to tell about it). That's how they keep a cap on the TOTAL FORCE number.

No one gave a shit about the gays, really. The bummer was when someone came out, and you'd want to pretend that you couldn't hear them, because you didn't want to LOSE them.

I mean, think about this: Bush has had SIX YEARS damn near to revoke DONT ASK DONT TELL(DADT), and prohibit gays in the military. He hasn't done it, though, because DADT was not the end of the world, and didn't destroy unit cohesion like everyone claimed it would. Interesting historical article on the issue, here:
http://www.gaymilitary.ucsb.edu/PressCenter/coverage12_4_01.htm

Of course, if things keep up, he just may HAVE to revoke DADT entirely (on edit: and substitute allowing gays to serve without any restrictions whatsoever), to stop the bleeding:

http://www.washblade.com/2006/6-7/news/national/dadt.cfm

The U.S. armed forces discharged 742 gay service members last year, an average of about two per day, according to new data from the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network. SLDN spokesperson Steve Ralls said the tally, confirmed by the Pentagon and the Department of Defense, represents a loss of 386 from the Army, 88 from the Air Force, 177 Navy personnel, 75 Marines and 16 from the Coast Guard.

Those numbers are up 11 percent from 2004, when 668 personnel were discharged. Since the military began discharging gays in 1994 under the policy, more than 11,000 men and women have been removed from the military.


Avoiding Iraq

Ralls said the military does not generally reveal the circumstances leading to the discharges. But the losses are believed to include gay service members who out themselves as well as straight service members who pretend to be gay to avoid serving in the Middle East.

“There’s no doubt that there are service members who use ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ to avoid their service obligations,” Ralls said. “However, that’s a very strong argument for repealing the law. That would close that loophole and force them to fulfill their obligation to the country.”.....

[EFerrari]

22. Help me God. I still contend that if Junior had gotten the service

vote, we'd STILL be hearing about it.

But, we're not. In fact, we're not hearing about ANY demographic that he got that is KNOWN TO EXIST.

Who voted for this loser?

In 2000, he was an ex President's loser son. In 2004, he was the loser that let 9/11 happen and went into Iraq instead of finishing Afghanistan.

:shrug:

[MADem]

24. Who voted for this loser?

Heh, heh, sadly enough, it's starting to seem like Karl Rove did, again, and again, and again, and again......!!!

[pecwae]

32. Seems I read

that a good number of those 11,000 were language specialists who are now in high demand with a huge enlistment bonus.

[FloridaPat]

33. Thanks for that update. I remember Ann Richardson saying *

got the governorship in Texas because of the military vote. He was behind by a little and it put him over the top. At the time, there was a lot of talk about how all the military people preferred repubs and hated Clinton. I really believe there were so many illegal and unethical vote counts in Florida that most of the repub party should be in jail and not serving the country - which is sure an oxymoron statement now. I can't believe the flag waving Americans are letting them screw over the military this badly.

Do you think the 40,000 desertions since 2000 is true?

[eppur_se_muova]

36. Hmmm...very interesting. Thanks for posting that.

Those of us not from military families really don't know a lot of these details, so our suspicions aren't triggered so much.

[MADem]

39. Being the postal officer is a lousy collateral duty at small installations

and vessels. At big ones, they have a full time person, but in outlier bases and small ships, it's a part-time/side job that is usually given to the greenest bastard aboard. Many officers have had the joys of this collateral responsibility during their first commissioned tour, and I am one of 'em--it was a zillion years ago, but I learned the regs and haven't forgotten them. As I moved up the ranks, I continued to be bagged to do Postal Audits because of my time doing that sidebar job. I had to hit the senior ranks before they stopped calling on me.

It is INCONCEIVABLE that thousands and thousands of pieces of mail would "fail to be postmarked." If our government reps actually wanted to know why, I say drag the damn Postal Officers and the senior enlisted leadership responsible for these pieces of mail before a Congressional committee and ask them--and it would be simple to know where that mail was coming from, all ya gotta do is match the voter to their duty assignment, and the duty assignment to the chain of custody for outgoing mail.

That mail showed up at Post Offices in the US, but I'll bet it did NOT originate at any ship or overseas installation.

It was FRAUD, plain and simple.

[GOPisEvil]

3. My dad is a 30-year vet of the USAF and damned liberal.

You just have to watch to whom you admit that these days. Sad state of affairs, isn't it?

Oh, is the first one married? Something about a woman in uniform. :silly:

[Squatch]

16. On the off chance she's a DUer and reading this thread:

I will say that I cannot comment on her marital status.

Holy crap, if I was still a bachelor, I'd be trying to "hit that" like you wouldn't believe! LOL

She cuts a very professional profile in uniform.

Read between the lines.

[GOPisEvil]

18. Understood.

If she were to be sent to, say, Ft. Hood or Ft. Sam Houston, I'd happily assist in her relocation. :)

[Hissyspit]

5. He is Commander-In-Chief on fraudulent grounds, too.

Would that guy have spoken up like that in defense of Clinton as CIC? No. It's bullshit.

I'm glad to here that, but it seems a lot of my students are still drinking the Kool-Aid, making French jokes, etc. It's kind of sad, really. The military has been abused by Bushco.

[Jazzgirl]

7. Kudos to you guys!

Glad to hear the tide is finally turning. I know my brother is in the reserves and he has never been happy about *shrub.

JG

[caligirl]

8. Another similar story, former marine major voted for Bush, very

conservative. Lives somewhere in Texas. He is now outraged and has completely turned around as a republican over Iraq and the so called war on terror. He supported this at first but now he is seriously p'ssd off about the whole administration and the Iraq failure. He won't support pseudo republicans like Bush again.
ps. My husband rarely discusses this with him, but he has known from the beginning my hubby was against the war while he bought into it. Its a delicate subject not brought up much. For this guy to have changed this much I have more faith in people now than I did 5 years ago when bunnypants stole the election.

[Octafish]

10. Thanks for your service, Squatch.

Thanks also for the story.

Many DUers have stated the vast majority of the men and women in uniform are good people -- liberal, conservative, moderate, whatever -- who pledged their lives to uphold the Constitution of the United States.

They are the reason we are still a free nation.

And they are the reason we one day will be rid of the tyrant Bush.

DRAFT DODGER

[Vinnie From Indy]

11. Spoke to an old friend who is a Colonel in the Marines at a reunion

He is on his way back to Iraq for the third time. He said he is pissed off at GW Bush for the entire cluster f*ck taking place in Iraq. He also said that he is pissed that he is supposedly fighting for the very freedom Smirky is trying to dismantle here at home. I was floored and NEVER expected that from him. I shook his hand and wished him the very best for a speedy return and a safe journey.

[libnnc]

12. Thanks to you and your friends for being honest and true.

If I could, I'd give you all a big fat kiss.

Keep on keeping on. :toast: :patriot:

[jwirr]

14. Periodically we hear about how many officers are leaving the

armed forces and that they have a shortage of officers. I would guess that is a type of protest against *ss and his awol friends.

[Squatch]

17. The best place to effect change in an organization

is from within. You can't really make the Army a better place if you leave it, yano?

[EFerrari]

25. Under this misadminstration, that's a better argument for decamping

than reupping, isn't it?

[lonestarnot]

41. Debrief, Delouse, Debushitler! IMPEACH!

[INDIA]

27. Do you worry about blogging here

as an active duty officer? Not to mention having open political conversations among other military members. Isn't there something in the UCMJ against that?

[two gun sid]

15. I have always had faith in the Officers of The USMilitary...

I spent 6 yrs on active duty and the majority of officers I dealt with were pretty enlightened individuals.

I had an O2 that was pretty damn progressive. Great guy to work for. He was an Academy grad too.

This enlisted puke salutes you guys. I only wish those guys in the Pentagon would stand up to Rummy.

[wordpix2]

19. excellent to hear, seems the military more & more is not trusting BushCo's

competence on this fraudulent war. I wonder why? :sarcasm:

[acmejack]

20. It's interesting, the military is a lot more politically involved now

Than it was in my day. Or so it seems, we were pretty apolitical back then. But it is not a bad thing in nay way, I like seeing people questioning what in the hell it is we have them doing. Good for you all, just keep your heads down and your butts covered, I'm sure one thing hasn't changed and that is their ability to be petty and vindictive...

[tabasco]

23. Most remfs are diehard republicans.

Anyone with their ass in the bush understands the value of a rational government and diplomacy.

[helderheid]

26. rec 5 - I love it! Many more a rec rec

[WCGreen]

28. Those same guys would dis Clinton everytime he was around

anything remotely dealing with the military...

Clinton took a whole lot of abuse from the cons in the service...

Some, I remember, refused to salute the Commander in Chief....

[Bucky]

29. "Are you sure you want to Recommend this Topic for Greatest Page?" YES

Hells yeah!

[TacticalPeek]

30. FTA!

Free the Army!

:patriot:


(Well, maybe that's going too far, but like that . . . :) )

[leesa]

31. Good to hear. Frankly, I don't understand how anyone in the military

could be a conservative or a Republican after what they have done to the military, pay cuts, housing cuts, health care cuts, etc. I remember the day after the Iraq invasion started there was a vote to support the troops or some such feel-good thing in the House, and, of course, 100% bipartisan vote to approve it. The very next vote cut pay and benefits for those very same troops...it split down party lines with 100% Republicans voting for the cuts and 100% Dems voting against them. It's been that way ever since. Massive amounts of money going to the military and you guys are practically impoverished. Dick Cheney's doing alright though.

[w8liftinglady]

34. My Dad was a cloth coat republican until *-30 year USAF Vet.-no even HE'S

a liberal.....I'm so proud (sniff)

[Olney Blue]

35. Thanks, squatch. This gives me hope!

:patriot:

[bobbieinok]

37. RW talk radio 'knows' all military are republicans

During campaign 2004 a host and caller had a long conversation trying to figure out if Clark, a dem, had really been in the military and had really done any brave things. They decided yes on both but concluded he was just weird.

In 2004 Savage said any dems in military had been brain-washed as kids and had not been strong enuff to throw off this early conditioning although in service they learned better.

[michreject]

38. OT for a sec

Are you 3rd infantry?

[lonestarnot]

40. WOOFUCKINGHOOODAMN WHOO! SQUATCH!

Squatch you totally rock dude! Totally rock! :yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock::yourock: