Prediction: The Grand Compromise will be a Censure of the President

[Perky]

The overwhelming evidence is that Bush ignored FISA. WHile certainly impeachable I would put the chance at 1 in fifty that it would ever go to that level. But what is going to happen repeatedly in the next several months is going to be Bush's Hollow defense of "I am Commander-in-chief". The Ready response will be yes and so was Richard Nixon.


I suspect that Congress wanting to Distance itself from the President will want to do something to express outrage not at the surveillance but at the arrogance of the Bush Position.


THey have to run away from the arrogance if not the act.


Censuring the President in mid June is the GOP's best political option. Slaps the president around a bit. asserts the co-equality of the branches and the supremacy of the Constitution.

It allows them to say we exercise our right to slap the President's hand and He will not be doing this "well-intentioned but perilous" domestic spying again.


My suspicion is that if Dems are seen as Demagoguing the issue too much the issue will be become a political issue rather than a constitutional one. That is not in our interest in my opinion because it allows the President off the hook by changing the debate.

Rebuking the President is in the GOP's interest because it is not going to tie them up for month and allows the president to recover from the humiliation.

[kentuck]

1. You may be right?

But will they even have the balls to do that?

[Vincardog]

2. REmember the CONSTITUTION? Censuring is what Congress does to Its' members

IMPEACHMENT is what congress does to pReZnits

[kentuck]

3. I recall they discussed "censuring" Clinton...

rather than impeachment??

[Jawja]

22. Yes you are right

and I remember the Repuke response being that the Constitution did not allow for censure, or they would have considered the measure.

[Perky]

5. Not true....Jackson was Censured.

and so was Bartlett...oh....wait a minute....Jackson was Censured.

[SaveElmer]

6. True...

But it was expunged later...literally blacked out...

[H2O Man]

14. That is correct.

It is as much an option as impeachment. I think that there is a very good chance that you are right. However, we need to continue to demand a special prosecutor be appointed by the DoJ, and that the House begin an investigation. To the extent that the White House activities are looked into, it will increase the chances that things may move in the direction of impeachment. This is because the spying program is larger than being admitted to: it was pre-9/11; includes many more intelligence agencies than the NSA; and has targeted far, far more than people with possible ties to al Qaeda.

[mandyky]

4. I would settle for a censure if they included more oversight

I actually think making shrub stick around for all his failures to hit home, might be best for our chance in 08.

If Bush were impeached we also need to get rid of Cheney, Condi, and Gonzales, at least.
Negraponte, Bolton, and Goss should also go with shrub.

[BushOut06]

9. If you can get a Democrat in there, the rest will take care of itself

Remember, all those you listed besides Bush & Cheney are appointments. Therefore, if you got rid of those two, whomever took their place would be free to name their own appointments.

[mandyky]

10. Speaker of the House would be next

and Hastert is GOP. We need to boot the Defense and Intelligence people, because they are loyal to Bush and the GOP, not to our Constitution and people.

[BushOut06]

12. I assume impeachment & removal would be after the '06 elections

In which case, hopefully the Speaker would be a Democrat.

[European Socialist]

7. Once the terrorist see a censure, we won't be safe.

[mandyky]

11. Do you really believe that?

I think Bush has done more to put us into danger than anyone else. I think our nation condoning torture and other draconian measures gain the terrorists more support from Islamic nations. I think the censure would be a plus for our standing in the world. Maybe Parliment in the UK could censure Blair too.

[European Socialist]

20. just being ironic--I don't think it would effect the Terrorists either way

[RufusEarl]

8. All well and good censure all you want,

I want hearing and investigations on all his crimes. Don't let the Re-pugs get away with just a censure of Bu$h for NSA, he has allot of crimes to answer for IMHO.

[bleedingheart]

13. I want impeachment, the president is supposed to know better

[cantstandbush]

15. Nothing less than impeachment will do and Gonzales must step down!

Our nation is really in many crises and the trashing of the Constitution is only one of them.

[Marleyb]

16. Censure is not good enough

The Dems...John Conyers....should not be offering a compromise. By suggesting censure he is giving the republican 'representatives' an out...a way to pretend they are holding Bush accountable, but letting him go on.

Bush must be removed from office ASAP. How sick is it to say he should stay and have to deal with his own problems. What about the thousands more that will die at his hands? He should not be leading the country. He is a threat to our country and humanity itself.

[Swamp Rat]

17. Are We the People going to stand for 2,000+ dead American soldiers and

30,000+ dead Iraqi civilians?

Impeachment is just the beginning...

[Silverhair]

18. I think the Republican congress will embrace the spying.

I am not just being cynical. In WWI and WWII Americans surrendered big hunks of their civil rights. They later got them back, but that is after the crisis. When a person is scared, the child in a that person wants a protector. Many of us have our inner child under control, and use that inner child for joy, creativeness, and things like that. But in many people, the inner child has more control over their lives. (My inner child LOVES ice-cream/cola floats and eats too many of them. I have a hard time controlling him on that matter.) Anyway, to get back to being serious with the subject again, if the public is scared enough, they will welcome the spying as, "He is protecting us, so it is OK."

Rove's tactic will be to get the Democrats to strongly commit to an anti-spying theme, then as election approaches they will ramp up the fear and push Bush/Republicans as protecting us (Remember the pictures of Bush hugging that girl?) and as the Democrats as naive Pollyanas. That is why the swiftboating of Kerry was so effective. It created doubts about Kerry as a protector. If we let them get away with that tactic, then we will be like the bull charging the cape only to meet the matador's sword.

We are going to have to be a lot smarter about this than we are being now.

[carolinalady]

19. Unfortunately, I agree. The real reason? They fear Cheney more

than King George, which is why he will never be gone from Shrub's side, unless we can find a true criminal act to convict him. That won't happen because people are too afraid to speak out. It's all a bunch of bullshit.

[Perky]

21. I agree in part.

Gore and Hillary have been great. I just wish others would join the chours long enought to get to the SJC hearings. Then go after the WHitee House for stonewalling and Specter for trying to refocus the issue,

There is blood in the water and the GOP know is it... we need to be on the attack more and more.