National ID card?

[serryjw]

quote.........
In May 2005, Congress passed the "Real ID" Act, which requires states - starting in May 2008 -- to issue federally approved driver's licenses or identification (ID) cards to those who live and work in the U.S.

Unlike the USA Patriot Act and other politically sensitive pieces of legislation, Real ID has not made many headlines. Last fall, it was voted down. But then it was reintroduced, and tacked onto the 2005 Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for Defense, the Global War on Terror and Tsunami Relief. (Real ID hence superseded conflicting portions of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004.) Obviously, it would have been a serious political liability for a Congressperson to vote against funding for the war on terror and tsunami relief. So it is unsurprising that there was no debate on, no hearings on, and no public vetting of the Act.

snip.....
The Real ID Act's identity cards will be required not only if one wants to drive, but also if one seeks to visit a federal government building, collect Social Security, access a federal government service, or use the services of a private entity (such as a bank or an airline) that is required under federal law to verify customer identity.

end quote......

Finally, the IDs must include a "common machine-readable technology" that must meet requirements set out by the Department of Homeland Security. And, somewhat ominously, Homeland Security is permitted to add additional requirements--which could include "biometric identifiers" such as our fingerprints or a retinal scan.

end quote.........

IF this become law you can assume BIG Daddy has arrived.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/ramasastry/20050810.html

[MADem]

1. They'll probably use the current military ID technology

You can store a load of info on the bar code and stip on the obverse....

[genie_weenie]

4. Aargh! You Bogarted my post! n/t

[MercutioATC]

2. I don't have a problem with this.

We already have I.D. to drive. We're issued a national "I.D. number (SSN).

We already have to show some sort of identification to do all of the things mentioned in the article...why is standardizing the form so ominous?

[MemphisTiger]

7. I'm with you on this, who cares where the card comes from?

maybe I'm missing something here

[MADem]

9. Well, some would say it chips away at State's Rights

and could lead to federal oversight of all sorts of things, like driving license standards...of course, people who have lousy RMV/DMVs in their state might welcome that.

It's a complex issue.

[w4rma]

18. China has a national ID card. Each card denotes whether someone is an

urban dweller or a rural dweller. Rural dwellers are not allowed inside the cities and may not be hired for jobs inside the cities where the pay is pretty close to what Americans make. Folks who are denoted rural dwellers can only live outside the cities and are used for a very very large, very very cheap labor pool.

That is an existing, real world example of the danger of a national ID card.

[wickerwoman]

29. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

China isn't oppressive because it has a national I.D. card. It was oppressive first and then developed better technology to institute that oppression. There are other examples (in China you can't lease property in an area where you aren't registered as a citizen. I have a friend who was forced to sell her family farm for a pittance when she moved to the city. Also, your insurance is arranged through your city of residence. If you move, you lose your free health insurance and have to pay for it.) But none of that happened because of the I.D. card and none of it is guaranteed to happen in the U.S. if a card is instituted.

I don't support an I.D. card because it just invites violations of the fourth amendment (it's an unreasonable search without probable cause). But many countries (England springs to mind) already have a National I.D. card and haven't descended into totalitarian states.

[BurningDog]

30. This could be said about the current state of US government too.

"It was oppressive first and then developed better technology to institute that oppression"

In the current political climate, I can't imagine one thing that a national ID card would be used for that wouldn't be oppressive.

[wickerwoman]

31. I agree

that the current political climate tends to be oppressive but saying "oppression is a danger of the the national I.D. card" would tend to imply that fighting against the card will eliminate the oppression. In fact, we should be fighting the oppressive climate, not the card. This is how the Bushies have the left so jammed up. They suggest something absurd and get us fighting the symptoms instead of the disease.

[magellan]

32. They don't have a Constitution with our privacy safeguards either

They don't, but we do. Should we be happy to let the US gov't break those laws, just because we presume there's "no harm" in it?

[genie_weenie]

3. This was beta tested in the Military.

Which began issuing these cards with digital fingerprint picture and an embedded chip in the card which had pertinent SRB (and I would assume Officer OQR) information on it...

[MADem]

11. It has what looks like a barcode and a bunch of dots on the back

You put the card in a reader, and all of the info on the card, plus the photo can be seen on a screen. That, plus a hologram, thwarts tampering with the picture if the reader is used. There's also room for way more info than is currently used.

More here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20011029/aponline173744_000.htm and here: http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,47971,00.html

[Sgent]

19. Its got more than that

All recently military ID's also contain a PGP signature which is used as one factor in a 2-factor authentication system for military computer systems (the other factor is a password).

The military has the largest deployment of 2 factor ID in the world. When it goes fully active (can't login w/o it) later this year or early next, it will be interesting to see what happens.

[anarch]

5. it would probably be easier just to brand us with a barcode on the forearm

or laser-tattoo it or something. Or maybe just a microhip implant in our necks.

[Swamp Rat]

33. Within a few more generations

humans will be chipped at birth.

[rzemanfl]

6. I think everyone should be able to make their own ID with a

scanner and a PC. Scan in newspaper clippings about you, your first grade report card, your high school yearbook picture, your diplomas, a picture of you and your first car, first born child, parents, grandparents, whatever you think will show that you are not an Al Qaeda operative. I still have the ticket stub from my first airline flight I took in 1958. Put it all on a CD or flash drive and let anyone who suspects you aren't you look at it.

[texanshatingbush]

8. I don't mind it as long as the govt gets it RIGHT......

Currently, the Driver's License is used as a de facto "national ID card", and stolen Social Security Numbers are used to create false identities which enable bad guys to have, among other things, the credibility provided by a "national ID card".

If some proposed "national ID card" can ensure banks, credit agencies, credit card issuers, and the IRS that I am who I say I am, and anyone else who says they are me is quickly proven a liar, then I am in favor of a "national ID card".

I've heard too many horror stories of folks whose personal identification records have been counterfeited, and they find out only after the IRS slaps them with a big fine for unpaid income tax, and credit card companies are dunning them for payment of accounts they did not open.

I know this has always occurred, but it seems to have ratcheted up in direct proportion to the illegal immigration problem.

[TahitiNut]

10. Why must everything be "national" and extreme?

Once upon a time, when the social security system was created, people were concerned that the social security account numbers would become a kind of "national identification." Seeing the elephant, they chose their weapon: a pea-shooter. In their infinite whizdumb, the card was imprinted with "Not To Be Used For Identification." What We The People failed to do was outlaw the use of such account numbers for any purpose, public or private, not directly authorized under the social security legislation. In the years since, we've seen that account number used for everything from military service numbers to obtaining residential electric service to private health insurance identification to credit reporting (purely for the convenience of corporatists).

Such uses, public or private, should have been outlawed! They weren't. That's the problem, not the accounts themselves. It's not enough to acknowledge people's 'right' to keep such information private; any public or private (coercive) request to obtain that information should itself be outlawed.

There's actually little problem with requiring such identification for employment where the employer is required by law to make deposits to the employee's accounts. Indeed, such a requirement could even include an exception for those who opted to make their own payments directly - such as self-employed people are required to do - as long as the reporting and compliance was sufficiently enforced.

Further, there's really no much of a problem with requiring passports to (re)enter the United States. The real issue is not outlawing the exploitation of such identification not directly related and authorized under the international travel needs that necessitated them.

[Sgent]

20. Give it up

to effeciently transact national and international commerce, you need unique identifiers of some sort.

The SSN is the only ubquitious gaurenteed unique identifier possessed by every citizen in the US. Sure, we could have never instituted it, but a different ID number would have been issued no better than the SS number.

Any time you earn money, or are extended credit, the IRS has an interest in the transaction. The IRS also needs to know its you -- not someone else with the same name and DOB. They also don't really care if you've moved 5 times.

[TahitiNut]

25. Fascists adore 'efficiency'

What you say presumes a monolithic "international commerce" and accepts the notion that various corporations (and governments) can exchange private and personal information on each and every citizen, facilitated by systems and mechanisms established by those same citizens. Hell, even sheep don't plug in the shears!

There's absolutely no way any human right can exist when it's assumed to not exist!

[Sgent]

27. If we were all living in huts

in africa, and never advanced, then your correct -- we wouldn't need such ID.

That said, I happen to prefer our current lifestyle over that of our ancestors.

I can't think of a time when individuals couldn't be identified uniquely. 2000 years ago, no one traveled. Those that did, used crests, seals, or names referencing their hometowns to do so.

[Mind_your_head]

28. K - Turn over your DNA....we want it NOW!

That's where this is headed. Make no mistake. Is that okay with you? (think a ~~~ little~~~ bit about the ramifications of that before you answer, if you do.)

[Mnemosyne]

12. K and R Bastards. n/t

[Marie26]

13. K&R

[TransitJohn]

14. K & R

Why no outrage? Scares the bejeebus outta me. Why don't they just take a sample of everyone's DNA at birth? That way they can just track all your movements from birth to death.

[serryjw]

15. Thanks for the outrage

Wait until all you personal info is encrpyted on the card like medical history.....and sexual orientation....maybe then somebody will catch on.

[readmoreoften]

16. I don't want everyone knowing everything about me.

Just because I want to fly doesn't mean I want the FBI to do a background check or know my credit history or know that I post at DU. This is a Safety -vs- Freedom issue. If a criminal can't fake your ID card, then neither can you when the regime decides that you're a criminal.

[serryjw]

17. We are all subversives

Try medical history....amd if you are gay, god help you.

[readmoreoften]

23. yeah and i'm a lesbian

i definitely want them knowing that. especially since i'm a lesbian working as a teacher.

[serryjw]

24. Yeh...and that's the problem

1984 has arrived.

[WinkyDink]

21. It's the RFD chip that's going to be part of it that makes this card

different---and ominous.
Or wasn't that part mentioned? Heh.

[blues90]

22. they can shove their ID card

[Mind_your_head]

26. K & R

:kick: