What Do Evangelical Democrats Think About Gay Rights?

[ruggerson]

I'm ok with Howard courting evengelicals.

But, I don't want to do it at the expense of gay folks and women and every other group who have had war declared on them in recent years by "Christians."

So, Democratic evangelicals. Tell me. In non circuitious language. Do you support gay families, gay marriage and gay adoption rights? Do you think homosexuality is a God given attribute, like left handedness, that is morally neutral?

In other words, do you really get, do you really GET, that this is all about the never ending advancement of the human condition since the beginning of civilization?

I'm all ears.

[donco6]

1. I've asked the same thing . . .

. . . and haven't gotten an answer yet. Anyone?

[Duncan Grant]

13. Mind if I pull up a chair next to you?

We can wait together.

[ContraBass Black]

15. See below.

[Duncan Grant]

17. I saw that and appreciate your response to this thread.

What I didn't see was a specific answer to this question in the OP:

Do you support gay families, gay marriage and gay adoption rights?

I have a great appreciation for your position (and your "I do") but I have learned that 'fundamental human rights' can be an abstract notion; not everyone agrees on what it means. I'll trust that you are indeed saying you support gay families, gay marriage and gay adoption rights. :)

edit: changed 'civil' to 'human'

[ContraBass Black]

25. "Do you support gay families, gay marriage and gay adoption rights?"

I do.

[Duncan Grant]

32. I appreciate your support.

We probably share common cause on a variety of social issues. :) :hi:

[cboy4]

20. Make room for me

*taps finger on watch*

[ContraBass Black]

29. See above.

[cboy4]

31. I read all of your responses. Thank you for recognizing it

as a human right :)

[Union Label]

2. Are there actually any Evangelical Democrats?

I dont know any.

[Lars39]

5. Evangelicals are like quicksilver.

I think I'm going to call them Anecdotals.Everybody knows of an exception.

[dave29]

22. Here's one you may have heard of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_carter

[Union Label]

37. OMG I didn't realize he was one of them

[rpannier]

3. Many evangelical Dems I know

support the right of GLBT not be discriminated against in housing, work, etc but oppose marriage. Some are okay with civil unions (ie No church weddings).
Most that I know are sort of fuzzy on the issue. They talk of tolerating the individual, but not the act. It's sort of a weak argument in my book. But I'm not an evangelical.

[NMMNG]

16. One does not need to have a church wedding to be "married"

While some religious folk would like everyone to believe that "marriage" is strictly a religious concept, it is a legal one as well. The reason that gays need marriage as opposed to civil unions is that legal marriage carries with it 1049 federal rights that civil unions do not.

People can and do get legally married without stepping foot in a church, or even believing in god.

[pnwmom]

18. Buffy, what if those 1049 rights could be applied to

a legal union between gays that was called something other than "marriage"?

What if we could get that "civil union" (with all those rights) much SOONER than we could get gay "marriage"? And with less backlash?

Personally, I don't think that the word marriage is worth delaying the actual rights for -- IF gays could get civil unions WITH all the same rights. This is what has happened in England, as I understand, and it seems to be working out okay over there.

In another generation, it won't matter, because young people tend to be supportive. But if we really want significant change now, I think we'll get more done more quickly if we push for civil unions with all the rights and responsibilities as marriage.

[NMMNG]

19. If those rights could be applied to a union by any other name

I wouldn't give a hoot what it was called (and I doubt most gay people would either). "Marriage" is just a word. It is the legal bond and the rights that come with it that are important.

[Bill McBlueState]

24. about church weddings

Many churches conduct same-sex weddings even in states that don't yet have marriage equality. So it's entirely possible for churchgoers to support equal marriage.

[samfishX]

4. A What Now?

I'm sure all 4 of the evangelical Democrats have completely differing opinions on the issue. That would certianly be representative of the Democratic party in general :P

[me b zola]

9. Stereotype much?

The Democratic Party is comprised of many different types of people, and that includes people of all different religious affiliations as well as those with none.

There is no one group of people who is "representative" of the Democratic Party, unless of course intelligent people are a group.

[stepnw1f]

23. Nice Try

but there are many more Evangelicals Democrats than you think, and at least we have opinions backed by facts, unlike the over-emotional knee-jerk limited intellect of the GOP.

Good luck

[unschooler]

6. The difference between an evangelical democrat and an evangelical

republican on this issue is that the evangelical democrat is willing to listen and to be a bit of a loner. Otherwise, he/she would be a republican like the good evangelicals are.


Edited to fix my html.

[ContraBass Black]

7. I do.

I will not deny another person fundamental human rights under the law.

Whether or not it's square with the church or with me or another person inside ourselves is another matter, and not one that relates to government.

[unschooler]

8. I would define an evangelical is a Christian who believes in that

Jesus died and was resurrected and that this process created the possibility that humans could be forgiven their sins and live eternally in fellowship with God.

Technically, it's not about politics or belief in the book of Genesis as providing an accurate description of the creation of the world and the origin of life or what someone thinks about gays.

At least that's what it meant waaaay back when I was raised evangelical (before that term was synonymous with republican). I think it's unfortunate that the term has been so politicized by the evangelical movement's own leaders.

Would you agree?

[ContraBass Black]

11. I would add to that the obligation of serving God by serving

Humans in need, thereby representing Christ well by bringing good to the world.

[unschooler]

12. I agree, but I think that's true of all Christians.

The problem is that some of them have strange ideas about what constitutes "bringing good to the world."

[ruggerson]

21. Thanks

and I think your approach is one that a lot of evangelicals could feel comfortable with: understanding and appreciating the dividing line between a spiritual belief system and the role of civil government in people's everyday lives. I heard a relatively liberal evangelical speak a few months ago (can't remember his name), but he said that a lot of evangelicals feel uncomfortable with the role the "Christian right" has been playing in politics the last 25 years, because of the blurring of the line between church and state, which ultimately destroys the purity of their spiritual message.

[blogslut]

10. What is an evangelical?

I always understood that Evangelical Christians took the concept of spreading the 'good news' as a main mission. Is the Evangelical a technical denomination of Christianity? Are many confusing the Evangelical with the Fundamentalist or the Dispensationalist? Are they all the same? What about Methodists, Baptists, Catholics, Episcopalions, etc.? Are there sub-Evangelical divisions?

I'm so glad I'm agnostic. I'd rather be unsure about God n' stuff. It's simpler somehow.

[Withywindle]

14. That's a very good and important question!

I'm not Christian of any flavor but I have huge respect for Jesus's actual message of humility and tolerance and peaceful revolt and helping others regardless of their caste in society.

I have huge respect for Catholic labor activists and Quaker peace activists and AME civil rights activists and any Christian who follows Christ's path and does the best they can to help the poor and the sick.

So I respect Christianity, in theory.

BUT...

Homophobic bigotry is a deal-breaker.

And to those who say bigotry is a "religious freedom" issue, well, what about MY religion? Most Wiccan/Pagan traditions I know of do NOT discriminate on basis of gender in our handfasting ceremony, in fact, we believe it's wrong and actually blasphemous to do so. Love is love, and communion/commitment between lovers is sacred to us. To imply that love is "lesser" in some way and deserves less honor and legal protection because it's between two men or two women, well, that's a pretty deeply offensive (and incomprehensible--literally: it MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL) notion to most of US. Our religion has rights fully equal to yours!

I am glad to work with and make coalitions with people of any faith or none on the issues we agree on, as long as it doesn't make me work against my own deeply held spiritual principles.

I repeat, homophobia is a deal-breaker.

edited to fix grammatical atrocities.

[stepnw1f]

26. Here's One

"I think that the position of president should be powerful, but definitely limited. Whoever is elected president should have the power to help decide what we should do with taxes, war, education, health care, and other very public services and issues. But I believe that a president should not have the power to make the decision about such personal matters as abortion and gay marriage. The Christian coalition has made it their mission to eliminate abortion and gay marriage, but those issues are so petty compared to war expenses and medicare. I believe gay marriage should be allowed, decided on a per state basis. When Bush announced he wanted to amend the United States constitution to preserve the traditional American family, I was absolutely horrified. We have come such a long way since the unrealistic 50's Cleaver family image. Our people have worked hard to accept the imperfections of mixed marriages and single-parent families, and are still trying to fully accept gay marriage and families. By suggesting such an amendment to our constitution, Bush took our country a step backwards and alienated many people. It almost seems offensive to suggest that an amendment banning gay marriage should be in the same document our forefathers used to establish our rights and basic laws."

http://www.2020democrats.org/node/2521

Not all "Evangelicals are against gays marying. Let's not fall into the divisive trap the GOP wants us to fall into. We need to be careful in "weeding out the wicked". Let's not burn down the whole wheat field in order to get rid of a few weeds.

[stepnw1f]

27. Here's Another Evangelical on Our Side

"My name is Derek Stockholm. I am a 24 year-old gay male living in upstate NY. I am an advocate for gay marriage in NY state and all around the United States. I fight feverishly against the laws and policies of this administration, and pray that soon it is changed so all Americans can express their love for one another and have the same freedoms our fore fathers set for us so many years ago! My hobbies include sports of all types, WWE wrestling, theatre, as well as being Miss Gay Broome County 2004 where I have tried fighting for gay rights in upstate NY and now Central NY."

http://www.2020democrats.org/node/2372

[stepnw1f]

28. And Another One

"Though I was generally happy with the decision, I was disappointed that the Supreme Court didn't include more Equal Protection logic in Lawrence v. Texas because I think it's getting to be time to consider gay marriage as an Equal Protection issue. By 2020, I hope that Canadian, Hawaiian and Vermont-ian unions and marriages between members of the same sex will be recognized in all 50 states, and I hope that more than 2 states will have passed similar civil union or gay marriage laws. I also hope that the federal DOMA will disappear."

http://www.2020democrats.org/node/2110

[peacebaby3]

30. My thoughts as a Liberal Christian.

I don't really like the evangelical label because I believe that people see Christ in you by the way you act and the things you do, not by how much you tell them. That is probably still evangelical to some degree, but most people consider evangelical going out and speaking the word. I think actions are far more important than words. If someone wants to convert to my beliefs, it's certainly not going to be by me preaching to them that my way is the right and only way. If someone asks me about my beliefs, I will tell them.

Now, to answer all of your questions...

I completely support gay adoptions. If a child can be raised in a loving, stable home, and as long as a gay couple can meet the same criteria as any couple that wishes to adopt, they should certainly be allowed to do so. There are so many children that need homes and I would be thankful to any couple who would be willing to share their lives with a child that needs a home.

As far as "marriage" goes. I believe that "marriage" is a religious term and should not apply to any union recognized by the State. All of us should be recognized as a civil union by the government and hold the same rights. If you seek to follow through with marriage, as a religious ceremony where you and your partner want to be recognized before God (or the higher power you recognize and has nothing to do with your rights under our government), then you do so in a church, mosque, synagogue, etc. As a separate entity from the state, the "church" has the right to decide who they will and will not marry based on their doctrine. I know there would be churches who refuse to marry gay couples, but I believe that others would (such as UCC and UU)and while I would certainly disagree with churches who refuse to marry a couple just because they are gay, I would never want the line crossed between church and state. I want them out of our government and I believe that if I ask that, our government has to stay out of their church.

May I add, that there is a good chance that I would be denied a "marriage" in most churches because I would not believe in their doctrine. If there were a UCC anywhere close to me, I would be a member.

I had a conversation with my relative who actually still believes that homosexuality is a mental disorder. She called me a gay rights advocate and I corrected her and told her I was a human rights advocate so, yes, I do believe it is a human rights issue and not about heterosexual vs. homosexual. We are all human beings and deserve the same rights under our government.

I don't pretend to have all of the answers, but I do know based on the teachings of Christ that I am suppose to love my brothers and sisters and in order to do so, I must treat them with respect and want them to be able to have the same rights that I do.

[Duncan Grant]

33. Actions do speak louder than words.

All people who desire social justice have an ally in you. Thanks for posting. :hi:

[peacebaby3]

36. Thanks for your kind words!!! n/t

[ContraBass Black]

34. "I don't really like the evangelical label..."

"...because I believe that people see Christ in you by the way you act and the things you do, not by how much you tell them. That is probably still evangelical to some degree, but most people consider evangelical going out and speaking the word. I think actions are far more important than words. If someone wants to convert to my beliefs, it's certainly not going to be by me preaching to them that my way is the right and only way. If someone asks me about my beliefs, I will tell them."

That's exactly the standard by which I declare myself as Evangelical here. I attempt to minister by example.

[Dr Fate]

35. Some do- and more would w/ proper framing.

I know an ordained evangelical minister who, while not for gay marriage, does indeed look at it from a equal protection POV and supports equal benefits, etc.

His take is that if we give equal benefits to gay couples, then we also have to give them to people who live with their extended family members.

I know others (granted, only a handful) who do not like it and do not want it in their churches, but also recognize that the Constitution is secular and they we have to give equal rights.

It's a long road, but not impossible- we already have a few starting to look at it from our perspective.