Why do kids drop out of school?

[napi21]

I've heard everyone blamed gfor this, but none of the excuses make sense to me!

I've heard the teachers, the administrators, & the lack of $$, all blamed!

I sure don't know, but if it's true that 30% of students are dorpping out of school, SOMETHING is damn wrong!

I happen to think a lot of it is the parents!

My 2 boys are grown and successful adults with their own families now, but while they were in school, I asked every day, what do you have for homework? I checked their homework every night before they went to bed. I made sure they had time to do it, and DID IT! I went to EVERY Parent Teacher conference. I also worked FULL TIME!!!!!

When I lived in SC, one of my husband's employees told him that his kid finally could quite school because he was now 16! When hubby asked him why he would let him do that, he said "He was never good at that stuff, and if he doesn't have to go to school, he can go down the street and get a job at the corner gas station and bring in some damn money!"

So you tell me, why are kids dropping out of school?????

[Viva_La_Revolution]

1. Boredom. Lack of learning things to use in real life

Those were my reasons anyway.

[JuniperLea]

18. Mine too

Took the GED and got the hell out of Dodge.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

46. me too

got a 336 out of 375 - didn't even study.

[JuniperLea]

48. That figures... the smartest kids are the most bored

Mensa is full of people who dropped out of high school:)

[Ariana Celeste]

21. Boredom can most definitely be a factor.

Some of the classes I got F's in were because I knew everything I was being taught and resented the fact I had to go through it again. And it's not like I was going anywhere with my life anyways, so who cares. I didn't.

[napi21]

24. You're kidding yourself! If you were being taught what you already knew,

you wouldn't have gotten an F now, would you?

Everyone had to learn things they were bored with! I know I hated History, and Geography! I managed to learn enough to pass the damn tests (barely) and then simply forgot all "that stuff". You know what? Now I'm sorry. I have to google so many things aboutt history that now relate to what's going on in Iraq or the insanity with this admin! Sometimes I post a qquestion on DU because I can't find the answer on Google!

To survive, we need to work. Every job has tasks we don't like to do, but you do them because you have to to keep the job. School is no different!

[Ariana Celeste]

27. I got an F because I didn't do the work.

I am absolutely not kidding myself. LOL.

I was one of those kids who didn't do the work but could pass any test. Why? I knew everything I was being taught in those classes. And I resented the hell out of it, and refused to do the work.

However, in the classes where I actually was learning something, I got A's. I wanted to do that work. Japanese, Business Law, and Creative Writing were my favorite classes, because I was actually learning something new, there was no more repetition, I got to actively use what I was learning! It wasn't just reading and filling out multiple choice bubbles. Everything else was the same old rehashed shit I'd been taught every year previous.

[lildreamer316]

33. EXACTLY. Thank you. n/t

[mdmc]

2. there are many reasons

basically, schools are overcrowded. Families are weaker. When a kid acts out, the schools make it a point to get the kid kicked out. The family can either fight to keep their problem child in school, or they can let them drop out.

When you are fighting with your troubled teen, you really don't want to fight the school district on top of it. Suddenly keeping your kid out of jail becomes the priority.

There are many reasons for our high drop out rate.

[napi21]

4. That's not an excuse either! What is this BS about acting out?

Did I have arguments with my boys....sure! But they knew, until they were old enough to move out, I was the winner! I taught them that I would always trust them...until they gave me a reason not to! They also knew they were to obey the authorities at school, and if they didn't they'd be in worse trouble when they got home! I wouldn't have accepted "acting out"! To me that's nothing differenet than not being taught to respect authority!

Weaker families? What does THAT mean? The parents fault AGAIN!

[mdmc]

55. "worse trouble?" I am talking about at risk kids...

kids that are JD (juvenile delinquents) or PINS (persons in need of supervision). When I say weak family, I am thinking dad is in jail and mom is working two jobs, without any additional support.

[Selatius]

3. Societal alienation

People won't cooperate if they are left with the impression early on that their contributions to society are not welcome or are not recognized. This is why unemployment in the Black community is so high. They say with current trends half of Hispanic students won't even graduate from high school anymore. The process feeds on itself if left alone, and this is what has happened.

When I talk about "economic segregation," I'm talking about communities of people being cut off and left to fester in a permanent underclass of the forgotten and the trampled.

[napi21]

8. I don't know if I agree with that. You're right that if people have the

impression that they can't contribute to society they simply lose interest and don't care, but that's not the feeling I get from the latino and black communities I've been exposed to.

What is keeping the informnation of "It's important to get AT LEAST a HS diploma" from these students? It's sure not for lack of many people trying to tell them!

[Selatius]

16. Ask yourself why poor people are often forgotten in the US

Maybe if you were ignored for so long and neglected for so long, a part of you may not want to bother with the effort anymore. If you are of very strong character, it may not stop you from escaping from the pit, but not everybody has the same strength. This same statement applies to parents as well as students. If parents were made to feel disempowered and forgotten, then it is almost inevitable that the same attitude will infect their children, so when their kids drop out of school, I doubt there will be much judgment from their parents as much as sympathy. In a way, parents and children are united in despair, and the chain won't be broken until there is an intervention.

That won't happen in this America. If this was Bobby Kennedy's and Martin Luther King's America, there may be a serious effort to combat the problem, but we live in Bush's America.

[napi21]

23. Maybe. I agree much of success is personal ambition.

If you don't have any, for whatever reason, I have no idea how anyone can give it to you!

I keep hearing that the largest number of dropouts are hispanic and black. Some others say it's children of illegals. If that's true, the lack of ambition excuse seems to fall flat. Certainly their parents risked their lives to make things better for themselves and their families!

I don't know what the problems are,a nd I'm sure there are many, but I want to find out what the cure is. How do we fix this mess? I don't think it's money! Sure, every teacher would like to make more $$, and so would everyone elase who is not a teacher! There has to be some other answer!

I think we have all had good and bad teachers in our lives. I recall having a teacher in 5th grade who demanded that you NEVER erase an answer on a test! If you did, you were called to the front of the class and smacked on the hand with a 1"x2" board! Once for each time you erased on your paper! At the time, I thought she was a real NUT! Now I realize she was teaching her students to THINK before they did anything. Now her methods were a bit bizzarr, but I sure learned it, and I'm a better person because I learned that!

Teachers couldn't get away with anything like that today, but maybe some method of punishment or unwanted reprecussion might be a good thing to put back into our education system.

[Selatius]

26. Are you kidding? Money is one of the factors

If every kid decided not to drop out of high school, there simply wouldn't be enough teachers or schools to accomodate them. If anything, that's not just an indication of a shortage of staff but also a shortage of facitilies. That's a factor in a complex equation that shouldn't be ignored. 34 billion a year on K-12 education is simply pitiful at the federal level. We spend over 100 times that amount on the war machine.

Human beings are complex beings, and the factors that lead to dropout rates and poverty and crime and so on are many. My answers up until now are generalizations trying to fit in as many of those factors as possible. If I were to try to isolate every single factor, I'd need several thousand words to describe to you the entire gamut of socio-economic factors. There are no silver-bullet solutions to this problem.

[etherealtruth]

42. I am grateful ...

... that my children are able to attend a safe and (relatively) affluent public school. The teachers have the resources to teach, the children are respected enough to receive up to date text books and equipment, they never want for TP, cutlery in the lunch room ...

I am sure for some kids in poor inner city and/or rural schools they get the impression that education isn't important for them because that is the message society sends them.

It is deplorable how much the quality of a child's education is based on income. If anyone needs the "perks" it's a poor child in the inner city, whose family may not be able to provide extras and supports for that child. It is difficult to check homework and follow through when you take the bus to 2 different minimum wage jobs every day.

[Just Me]

5. Combination of poverty (which induces hopelessness), inability to,...

,..."look good" like other students, problematic family environment, underfunded counseling, inadequate appreciation/development of students' strengths (beyond education/knowledge), pressure upon teachers/BOE to maintain funding, inadequate compensation for GOOD/GREAT teachers,...

IOW, it's not a simple problem. Human beings are complex and unique creatures. It's HARD WORK to address and empower/strengthen people because they are unique.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Here's some reasons I can think of:

1. No incentive to stay in school from the family (or lack thereof)

2. Poor self-concept (often related to family problems-I still remember a parent that told me that she loved her dog more than her son-and he was there and knew it)

3. Learning disabilities-I felt if a child couldn't learn in my class, most of it was my fault. I went out of my way to figure out the learning style of each student and to help them achieve. What was sad were that other teachers in the school thought that approach was "silly" and that a certain percentage of students should always get failing grades.

I can't say I succeeded with all my kids-I'm still haunted by the brilliant boy who could never relate to anyone, pushed everyone away-and who killed himself at age 21. But I did try to instill a sense of self worth in my students, and I did let them know I cared about them and their success.

[napi21]

13. You sound like a very good and concientious teacher. Thank you.

But from what you said, it still sounds like I'm right in blaming most of the problem on the parents, or what ever home life there is!

I believe way too many parents have pushed their responsibilities off onto the teachers! That's just wrong! The teacher should be educat4ed well enough to teach the subjects they are teaching, but they shouldn't have to be psychologist, counselor, and diciplinarian too!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. I left teaching in the '90s

because, frankly, I wasn't allowed to do my job. I moved to Texas, and the school district wouldn't let me personalize instruction for my students. All we were to do was teach the test, not ready the kids for life, no work on self-esteem, etc. It always amazes me that people who have never set foot in a classroom (like the people selling a curriculum or tests) always seem to think they know more than a teacher.

Also, it was in the late 80s that I noted a shift in families-more kids were left on their own after school, with TV as a babysitter. Parents had less time to be at home with their kids, and less time to find out how they could best help their kids.

[napi21]

34. I know what you mean about TX! I lived there in the 90's, and we

ALL complained about the new Shrub Governor and his new plan that teachers were teaching the students to pass a damn test and not to learn the subjects!!!!

I moved in 97, and things were getting worse instead of better! Everyone knew it was a lousy system, but I guess they didn't know what to do about it! Of course electing Perry wasn't a help!

[shanti]

52. oh no....

#2 is terrible :cry: how COULD a parent say that to their precious child??? he will probably remember those words till his dying day.:(

you sound like a caring teacher and person. thank you for your service....i hope my eldest (who's in college to become a history teacher) does as good a job.

peace

[maxsolomon]

7. high school should end after sophomore year.

after that, choose a vocational training or college prep track.

american schooling needs to be re-imagined. at the very least, it should start at 10 & end at 5.

[sandnsea]

9. School pushes that kid out

To make sure your kid gets the attention she needs.

Yes there are stupid parents like that, but educators are supposed to try to overcome ignorance. In my town, they ignore those kids until they give up and quit.

So it's parents and the system, and communities that don't do anything to make education a priority either.

[SoCalDem]

10. Teens are in a hurry to "grow up" and start their "real lives"

For some , this means going to college and getting out of the family home..

for lots, it means dropping out of high school and a dead-end job.

Teens don't see longterm consequences..

the "future", to a lot of teens....is next month..:(

[napi21]

14. Of course they are in a hurry to grow up! I know I was!!!!

And in most cases, your right with the future being next month, or even tomorrow! But it's the parents job to teach them that's not true! Has every parent stopped TALKING to their kids?????

[SoCalDem]

38. Lots of parents don't even SEE much of their kids these days

Out here, parents leave for work at 4AM and get home at 7PM (if they are lucky)..That doesn't allow for much "quality time"...and most kids these days have jobs too..after school..some don;t get off work until 10 at night, and Mom & Dad are probably in a coma by then..

Weekend are spent either working at a job or catching up on all the household stuff..

EVERYONE is on a treadmill going nowhere, and no one has time for each other :(

The sad thing is this..

The money they work so hard for, to provide the extras is useless, since it's never enough, and there's no time to enjoy any of it :(

[LiberalEsto]

11. Kids need to feel they can succeed

If they can't succeed at math, maybe they can succeed in art, athletics, English, cooking, etc.

One of the main tasks of a family and a school is to find out what a kid is good at, and encourage that as much as possible.

Once a kid learns to feel that he or she can do something well, they will feel more confident, and will be ready to tackle other areas of learning.

Unfortunately, many kids start feeling like failures as early as elementary school. And that feeling of failure gets reinforced with every F grade they get. Pretty soon the kid begins to feel he or she can't do anything well at school, and gives up on trying.

Unfortunately there are burned-out teachers who don't bother encouraging their students. There are also teachers who pick on kids and destroy any bits of confidence they may have had.

A good, encouraging teacher can make a lifelong difference by helping a kid succeed at something, even if the success is a very small one.

[Warpy]

12. Mostly, because they're BORED

and they're bored because we force all kids onto an academic track until they're eighteen no matter what their talents are.

I'd rather see the basic degree awarded to anyone who can read, write, do enough math to mange his own money, and demonstrate a working knowledge of history and civic issues on a test at sixteen, with the next two years of academics for kids going on to college and a couple of years of work/study trade school for the kids who are not.

After all, we need plumbers, machinists, electricians, large vehicle drivers, and all other skilled trades as much or more than we need baccalaureate prepared middle managers.

Blaming teachers, parents, or kids hasn't done a thing for the kids who drop out at 16 and then find themselves screwed until they get that GED. Maybe the system itself is to blame.

It's worth thinking about, anyway.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

54. I know what you mean

Even on the college level, I had students who clearly didn't belong there but who were stuck in college for four years just because "middle class kids are supposed to go to college."

Never mind that they have no intellectual interests nor any interests in any of the occupations that one typically goes to college to learn.

Such students cause the majority of the trouble on the typical college campus. They indulge in binge drinking and vandalism and general assholiness with the excuse that "we deserve to play hard because we work so hard."

They'd be much happier learning to be mechanics or construction workers or hair stylists or restaurant cooks or anything else that didn't require them to write essays on literature or do "business calculus."

I'd like to see a more European-style system, with more in-depth instruction up through tenth grade and then a split into vocational and academic tracks--but with an easily accessible "back door" for people who decide later in life that they want to go to college after all.

[azurnoir]

15. Lots of reasons

I don't know where you got the 30% figure but I'd bet that if you broke it down by income you'd find that most of these kids come from families in the lower 1/3 of income. No, I'm not saying that low income parents are bad parents. The sad truth is that many schools gauge how well they'll score over all in basic skills tests (required by NCLB) by how many kids are receiving free or reduced cost lunchs. I have seen this stated that bluntly in the local paper doing interviews with school principles. Students receiving this are expected to fail to the point that from kindergarten or first grade teachers know that they can "kick this kid to the curb" no one cares. In my experience I've seen teachers that will actually discourage these kids. One of my kids had a first grade teacher that punished her for writing in cursive the explanation I got was that she was not following the program (every thing for slow learners)this teacher had decided on for her. This teacher based this on the fact my daughter was bi-racial. On that fact the teacher also stated to me that obviously I was a single welfare mother who lived in a housing project and most likely was from out of state. I was none of the above. When I complained to school officials it was completely shrugged off. This was the kick off for more of the same for the next decade and counting. The conclusion is that teachers well meaning or not expect non-white or asian or low income kids not to do well and there expectations are met.

[napi21]

29. I got the 30% figure from Lou Dobbs show tonight.

He also said the majority of that 30% were latino and black. Does that mean low income? I don't know for sure, but probably. But that doesn't support your argument that it's low income that is the problem.

Sorry, I still think it's mostly because the parents don't prod their kids to study, help them with their homework, and show them how important it is to graduate from HS!

I don't think it's a great idea that every kid go to college! Some don't want to, some want to do other jobs that don't require a college degree, but require a technical degree. People with tech degrees are many times, more successful than the kids who sent to college and partied their way through! But without a HS diploma, you're sunk!

[Guy Fawkes]

17. Honestly? None of those (or the above)...

A lot of kids seem to drop out of school to piss off their parents. I know a few people who dropped out weeks or even days before graduating, just to make their parent's mad. My class lost 131 people within months of graduation.

[Ariana Celeste]

19. I had my reasons.

I had friends who dropped out, too. My brother did too, unfortunately.

Sometimes when you are poor, and depressed, you don't see the point. Even if you do graduate, how are you going to afford college? What's the difference between a GED and a diploma anyways? Why not start working and be able to buy the things you need? Why not start working and take some of the weight off of your parent/s? This is pretty common. And when schools are understaffed, and teachers aren't making enough money, and classes are overcrowded, a lot of kids don't get the guidance and support they need. I don't know what it's like in high schools across the country, but the two I went to expected you to know what you were planning to go to college for when you start high school so you can start working towards it then. That pressure is hard on some kids. It was really hard on me. Especially hard on kids who don't think they will ever be able to go to college. Kind of makes you resent the school as well.

And to make it even worse for me and my friends, we weren't conformists, so we were treated like shit by students and officials.

[napi21]

36. If the teachers are telling EVERYONE they have to go to college,

they're idiots! Some people just don't want to go to more school! Some don't have the ability to go to College! Many would be much better off if they were encouraged to go to a tech school!

I took several college courses when I was 26, so I can say I "have some college", but I already had 2 kids then and no money either, so I never actually went to "college". I was an ambitious person, and always believed that if you did a better job than anyone else you'd succeed, and I did!

I had to quit in 1999 to take care of my ailing mother, but when I left that job, I was the Director of Accounting and making $78,000 a year. I think that was doing OK, don't you?

I hear all the things you're saying, but I still blame the parents for not enforcing the "Get your HS diploma" on their kids from a very young age!

You asked why not start working and buy the things you need. You CAN WORk part time while in school! I did, and both my sons did. And don't try to tell me that you can make more money if you can work full time! If you don't have that damn diploma, you're going to be in that $5.15 junk job for a very long time!!!!!

[dave502d]

20. Why not just ask the kids.n/t

[WindRavenX]

25. our public school systems are no longer places of learning

In many, many cases, the literal only reason that a teacher is there is to prepare students to take bullshit MC state benchmark tests-- there is no room for actual discussion of texts, or simply having class discussions on the state of affairs in the world.
It's soul crushing. I'm almost out of college, and I understand completely why people drop out.
A GED or HS diploma gets you a job-- a job that in many cases can't even allow you to live on your own.
So in short, school has become a vapid wasteland that offers no incentive other than to please parents or society. You aren't an individual, you're just another brick in the wall.

[Ariana Celeste]

30. Exactly!

You read a passage, and fill in multiple choice bubbles.

[napi21]

41. I don't know anything about the schools where you are, but

I have 2 grandchildren in school here in GA, and they are doing just fine. I sure hate the Ga. school system, and their parents and grandparents help teach a lot of things too, but it sure doesn't seem to me that the schools are totally failing.

[WindRavenX]

47. IMO, in my experience...

...the entire system is failing. I speak not only as a former student (and a recent one), but as someone who is preparing to make the jump into public education teaching in literally the worst schools in the country. The question you've raised is a relative simple one, but the answers are extremely intertwined with each other.
There's the issue of wealth, racism, societal control--all build on one another. Where you are born determines the quality of your education, and that's wrong. There are great schools in this country, but they are not created in equal number for all of the American school children.
I mean, it's great you're raising this question, as it is tremendously important, but it's sort of a symptom of a larger problem in society...and the solutions require a revolution.

[Just Me]

60. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT MY SON WOULD SAY!!!

They don't talk or teach or challenge students to "think". To the contrary, it's repetitive and boring crap on top of diminishing those who assert "thought" or "questions" or mere inquisitiveness.

PROGRAM. Just follow the fucking program.

My son isn't a genius (although, hell, maybe, he is considering Einstein was considered a horrible student), but,...he is bright and exposed and adaptative. Schooling seems to exacerbate his chronic migraine syndrome which must present great pressure because he and I are butting heads a LOT,...and he hasn't a migraine since school let out.

I don't know the answer,...I only know the system, as it is, is failing to advance and empower our kids.

Frankly, I think it's mostly about the federal and state pressures, IMPOSSIBLE expectations, being imposed upon the schools and teachers. Like, there is no space for imperfection even though NO HUMAN BEING is perfect.

Just spilling thoughts out, here.

When did we become so fucking intolerant? oops
Edited to include: MONEY, MONEY, MONEY,....funding threatened.

[jbnow]

28. A big factor is the school's desire

that they drop out . over the last few years I've heard some stories that disturbed me from different schools. For example a 15 year old was caught smoking for the 3rd time and was kicked out for the semester. Each time he was caught he was suspended for a while. Is that really a punishment for a kid who likes to stay home? Wouldn't in school suspension be more effective and not leave kids with a working parent/parents unsupervised?
That's common in schools, I know...but kids who get suspended are often the last kids who should be home unsupervised.

Ok, back to tis kid. The mother tried to work with the school about the semester off but the main answer she got is not to worry if it makes him drop out, over 30% of the kids did and he'd be old enough to drop out by the time he was eligible to come back. She was told he didn't seem to like school. (He did drop out)

Who knows what teen things he was going through to make the all A/B student more indifferent that year and closer to a D student. He like all of the similar stories I know are white upper/middle class boys who had been good students prior to the time they started getting in (non-violent) trouble at school. The parents really tried.

I know the kids were mouthy, probably a pain. I was thinking if they encouraged them to drop ou,t how about a student who has always struggled academically and brings down the test scores? How about poor people or minorities?

How much are they encouraged out?

Just shocked me to see the similar things at schools far from each other. Sad. I had a much higher opinion of schools than that. I know it's the kid's bad behavior that triggers it and they make they eventual choice...but I still call them pushed out.

[Ariana Celeste]

31. Reminds me what I always thought hilarious in high school-

You skip school, you get punished by not having to go to school?

Okay seriously, I skipped a week one time and came in and got suspended for a week. :rofl:

[napi21]

43. OH I agree with THAT! I always thought it was really stupid that

schools thought it was punishment to suspend a student! I like the detension punishment! The worse the offense, the longer the detention!!!! Now THAT'S punishment!

[lildreamer316]

32. Because it's boring and they are treated like cattle.

No solutions, I'm just saying.
Thank goodness I went to a Freinds school for awhile.

[MrSlayer]

35. Because, for a lot of people, school sucks.

I fucking hated school and would have dropped out if didn't respect my father as much as I do. In retrospect I'm glad I didn't but I sure wanted to. All the silly rules and petty bullshit just got on my nerves.

[napi21]

45. THANK YOU! You just proved my point! You stayed becasue

you knew you would disappoint your father!

That's what I meant when I blamed the drop out rate on parents!

I hated HS in the last 2 years too! I suspect most kids do. But Most don't just quit because of something their parents instilled in them in past years!

[Ariana Celeste]

49. It's really not all parents, though.

I knew damned well I would disappoint my mom and it broke my heart to do so, but I just could not handle the environment anymore. My mom tried hard, and I tell you that woman is a Goddess. She worked her ass off for me and my brother. It was no fault of hers that we dropped out. For some kids it may be their parents that keep them in school, and for some kids it may be due to their parents that they drop out. But that's just what it is. Some kids and some parents.

[napi21]

51. What would have convinced you that it was better for you to stay?

As far as I can tell, you are the only one who really answered my question. Please think about it, and what you know NOW. What would have had to change to have made you stay in school until graduation?

[Ariana Celeste]

56. A completely different atmosphere

Like I said in one of my replies... I got A's in the classes that were teaching me something new, and had hands on applications of what we were being taught. For instance, in Business Law, we all had a mock trial to look forward to. We had discussions about what we were learning... not just raising our hands and answering questions. In Japanese, we all had to stand up with eachother, move around, speak a whole new language. In Creative Writing we got to discuss all different types of literature... I remember one of my favorite discussions in that class revolved around "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds". In Psychology, we got to sit in groups and have discussions about what we were learning, and also class wide discussions. I thrived in those classes, because talking about new ideas and listening to different perspectives has always been the way I have learned best.

Most of the rest of my classes were all just paperwork, paperwork, test, move on. And that's all they really can do anymore, because of lack of funding and crappy pay. I imagine if it weren't for the overwhelming requirements weighing on a teacher's shoulders, regular classes like English would be a lot more interesting. teachers can't really get creative anymore, except for in Electives, where there aren't so many requirements- and even those are starting to get ruined as well. I don't know if it's country wide or if it's just in WA where I went to school, but by the time I left they were starting to make all Electives include writing and math, no matter what the Elective. In my Wood Shop class, we had to take math tests and write a bunch of non-related crap. My cousin is an elementary school teacher and she tells me it's starting to get really bad in the lower grades too.

I hope you get what I'm saying... there really are a lot of factors and it's different for every kid. Sometimes parents can make or break their decision.

[napi21]

63. I do get what you're saying. Make classes interesting!

The problem is, some subjects just aren't! English to me was the worst. All that i before e except after c and crap! H hated ancient history too! What the hell did I care about the ancient Babylonians? I loved chemistry, russian, and geometry, but detested algebra!

Do you see what I mean too? It's an individual student thing. You said you love Japanese, but I can't imagine studying that!

I think there's a lot of responsibility with the students too. There are always going to be classes or jobs you don't like or want to do. It never stops either! Every job you will ever have still has some things you have to do and hate! You have to recognize that you just have to do it anyway!!!!

Edit because typing wasn't one of my achievements either!

[cigsandcoffee]

37. Marijuana?

Sorry, just thought I'd keep the theme going.

[WindRavenX]

39. lol

:rofl:

[kentuck]

40. Why do fools fall in love?

Because it's not cool to be in school and in love.

[mntleo2]

44. Institutionalized Racism

I have kids of color. One of them was so smart he was in the gifted class as a younger child, but he just got his GED this year ~ as all of them did and all of them were A and B students while in school. I am a single mom, we are poor and I can tell you poor parents want to be there, however we are expected to work those McJobs and 70% of those jobs are off hours. We are not home when our kids are and when they reach the age of 10 or 11, there is nowhere except the Boys and Girls Club for them to go, if there is one close by. Those clubs cannot make a kid stay there, so they are often on their own as preteens and teenagers. This is when the trouble starts for single parents...


It was not until I took a class on institutionalized racism that I understood my kids better, and I raised three kids of color (Mexican and white). I am white, but my lineage did not matter as to who they were expected to be. It is as if the white part of them was not there. Even though it is obvious my kids do not know Spanish (they know: si, no and Valiz Navidad and that is about all, lol), I had teachers and staff speak Spanish to my children (to show off and/or to pointedly show "respect")sometimes they would speak louder to them as if they could not hear. All of my kids are boys and I believe boys are being sorely ignored anyway, but boys of color are especially expected to fail. If they do something wrong, punishment is often more severe than it is with a white kid ~ also boys of color especially are sorely misunderstood and it is assumed they are bad. Even staff and teachers who are of color but not of the same race often treated my kids as if they were aliens.

I got into a conversation with some friends of mine, all mothers of various races, and boy did we all have something to say about cross institutionalized racism ~ though we all agree a school staff person of color is not racist, merely prejudice and there is a difference. However to a kid who does not understand what is going on, and to a teacher/staff person in denial, prejudice of any color, is a toxic mix. It is as if one race does not want to be the "hated race of the week" or something, so they go out of their way to "prove" something by over reacting to kids of color other than their own (IMO).

Nobody mentioned one of the major reasons for dropout rates is racism, but it is alive and well in this country. Mixing racism with poverty is a deadly combination. Blaming low income parents, especially single mothers, who are working their butts off just to put a roof over a kid's head is not the answer. Until we can ALL admit we are racists and then work on it, kids will continue to fail. I say this because I think racism also affects white kids of any class, because they do not understand that they are being treated differently and have more privilege. This causes a great deal of misunderstandings between kids, staff and all of us IMO.

Until we can understand that kids are kids, no matter what color they are, we will have problems not only in education but in the workplace and out on the street.

My 2 cents.

[WindRavenX]

50. spot on

:thumbsup:

[lastliberalintexas]

62. THANK YOU

Geez, some people seem to think that everyone lives in Ozzy and Harriet land. :eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. Because they can

The solution is simple - raise the mandatory attendance age to 18.

[dysfunctional press]

57. ultimately, it's the parent's fault & responsibility.

but they'll also be the first to deny it.

i rest my case.

[Asgaya Dihi]

58. Bullies, social outcast, boredom, bad schools, etc

Lots of reasons. My sons both loved school when they were younger, both qualified for the TAG program and both looked forward to going to school. That ended with middle school and got worse by high school. If you don't fit the mold they crush you and it's as simple as that.

The oldest for instance is a natural speed reader, the teacher was always giving him crap because rather than reading he'd be looking out the window but he always tested high and knew the answers. We just couldn't get it through to them that if he's done reading and knows the answers then why should he just stare at the page? Eventually we ended up pulling him from school and home schooling him the last couple of years, if we hadn't done that he'd have stopped going too. The kid got around 1170 on a SAT test administered by Duke in 7th grade and accepted into the baccalaureate program for a scholarship if he kept the grades up, it wasn't lack of ability. It was a need to be allowed to be himself.

The younger is starting to run into the same problems, and he used to love school. When I was a kid we realized that they are noisy, these days they expect them to sit quietly, don't fidget and don't be kids. Turning them into a bunch of drones in this school district at least. I'm afraid we'll end up in the same place with this one too. With me it was gangs, lived poor in the DC area and that didn't work out so well.

[Deja Q]

59. Ask Bill Gates.

:7

[lastliberalintexas]

61. Did you just want to bash some parents?

You've gotten a number of responses in this thread, and yet you continue to blame the parents for the dropout rate. Yes, some parents fail to realize the value of an education and thus don't push their kids to excell. But many parents are barely keeping their own necks above water these days, and even the children of involved, loving parents can go awry.

While the single greatest determining factor in the dropout rate is the income level of the family, it is by no means the only one. Boredom due to extreme intelligence, lack of intellectual curiosity, the lure of "good money" at the plant, excessive absences (for whatever reason, but most especially for girls who get pregnant), parental pressure to drop out and supply needed monetary support for the family, and even the excessive testing of modern education and the school's desire to rid itself of poorly scoring students all play a factor in dropout rates. There is no one magic bullet to cure graduation rates in this country, and neither can it all be blamed on bad parents.


And no offense, but given some of your posts in this thread, I'd have to question just how much you've interacted with poverty level families. You seem to think that a parent who has to worry about where s/he is going to find FOOD for their family should also be worried about the kids' art project or chemistry assignment. You seem to think that the single mom who is already working 3 jobs (with her oldest child probably working and going to school) has all the time in the world to play at being Harriet Nelson. Seriously?

In all sincerity, I would suggest that you volunteer at an urban, low income school (like the one I attended) this fall. Then get back to us on the myriad of factors you can see at play in those students' decisions. Because the families of which you seem so scornful live in a completely different world than that in which you apparently reside.

[Ilsa]

64. The survey I heard said "boredom" was an issue as well.

I think classroom formats do not serve all students even marginally well, only a few.

[bemildred]

65. The schools suck.

They sucked 40 years ago when I was I was in them, and the suck worse now, and it's because of the management, not the teachers. You run it like a prison, the kids treat it like a prison, they want to escape.

[seabeyond]

66. perusing the thread i saw about all excuses, but i agree with you

the expectation from the parent is all the difference in the world. i am on email with the teachers. the ones that give me the weekly schedule are the BEST help. i talk to teachers on regular basis and they know my expectation of the children. IF they have any concern they come to me, because they KNOW i will be receptive to them and not only take their suggestions but give them my own. we work together as a team, and that includes my children. education is a priority in this house. reading and cognitive thinking is a must...

i do not see that in a lot of homes. yes, i put the responsibility squarely on the parents. the opportunity is there, and i have yet to meet a teacher that hasnt embraced parent participation

and all three schools kids went to the private was most disappointing. i liked the two public. but the one kids had last year by and far the best