Hey lurking freeptard trolls... Explain something to me?

[benburch]

Where did Jesus Christ ever say that War was OK?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. When he conquered the Ottomans.

It's right there in Leviticus.

[Catch22Dem]

3. Lots and lots of gruesome violence in Leviticus. (n/t)

[sable302]

20. yep, but no Jesus there

strangely enough

[benburch]

40. Leviticus DOES NOT APPLY to you or me!

It was a special book of rules for the Levites, the hereditary priestly class.

So anybody who thinks a word in there ought to apply to modern Christians is woefully ignorant of the Bible.

[Catch22Dem]

46. I got news for ya

None of it applies to me. To me, it's a best-selling work of fiction.

[benburch]

49. Hypothetically.

We are here assuming a person who believes in The Book.

[Catch22Dem]

50. I'm just teasing

I'm very much impressed with your knowledge as I read through this thread.

[lildreamer316]

25. JESUS was there??

I must have the wrong Bible.

[SensibleAmerican]

55. Around the same place where it says George Bush is God ...

See Christian Coalition 5:14.

[Kerrytravelers]

2. Well... bush says it's time to go to war... and bush is Christ... so...

yeah... let's go blow shit up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:shrug: Just a guess.

[karlrschneider]

4. Well, there was this

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of
God.

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for
theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

[benburch]

13. Yes indeed there was.

:)

[maxsolomon]

5. when did that ever stop a Christian state?

really, from Constantine on, nothing Jesus is reported to have said has ever stood in the way of realpolitik.

Christianity only counts if it helps repress the rabble.

[LSK]

6. Yahoo is your friend

Lots of freeptards there (or trolls at least).

:hi:

[RagAss]

7. eeeeerrrrr....when he said "Love your Enemy"....uuuuuhhhhhh...

he meant it like Arlen Specter means it when he says shit about defending the Constitution.......

[physioex]

8. Ben...

The bible is full of contradictions and nothing in my humble opinion is just mythology. So I am sure some passage has a vague reference to war or something.....

[benburch]

10. Not in anything Jesus said.

That I am VERY sure of.

I know the Bible better than most of them do.

[texastoast]

16. Nope.

Not in the red words. Not one red word.

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. First, I would have to be convinced that there was a Jesus before

I would worry about what he supposedly said. In the mean time I'll be content to live & let live.

[benburch]

11. The Freeptards I addressed this to claim to believe in Jesus....

...and to follow them.

Hence the question is valid whether it is valid for YOU or not!

[mediaman007]

15. The Freepers believe in Jesus and follow the Old Testament...

Go figure!

[The_Casual_Observer]

18. If you believe in Jesus, then you might as well believe anything you

want to about what Jesus believes. The problem is that people are getting murdered because of all this Jesus stuff.

[MyNameGoesHere]

12. See the problem

with this religion thing and the bible writings is that they are inspired by god but written by mere mortals. I think that maybe the men who wrote this thing took some liberties with the divine word.

[devilgrrl]

14. I always wonder why Jesus didn't marry...

what was he, gay or something? :sarcasm:

[texastoast]

17. He probably did

But THE CHURCH doesn't want you to know that and went to great effort to suppress any reference to his normalcy as they conjured the Bible. Takes away from the divinity part.

[Cleita]

31. Back in those days being gay had nothing to do with getting

married. Marriage was a business deal with the idea of also having male heirs and marriagable daughters to make more business deals.

It is strange that a male in that society would not have been married. It seems also strange that there were no sons of Jesus mentioned in the gospels. This would have been important. So either he had daughters or his wife was barren, or he didn't marry. ?????

[Junkdrawer]

19. Reminds me of this from Vonnegut...

....

How about Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes?

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth.

Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God. …

And so on.

Not exactly planks in a Republican platform. Not exactly Donald Rumsfeld or Dick Cheney stuff.

For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes. But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course that’s Moses, not Jesus. I haven’t heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere.

“Blessed are the merciful” in a courtroom? “Blessed are the peacemakers” in the Pentagon? Give me a break!


....

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0512-13.htm

[sable302]

21. when he overturned the money changers in the temple

oh.....wait.....nevermind

[yurbud]

22. that was cool--with his uzi blazing and bayonet yanking out livers...

[Sailor for Warner]

57. He did beat the shit

out of them. If I recall correctly, he beat them with a whip he made on the spot. He also said that he came "not to bring peace, but the sword"

[Penndems]

60. Matthew 21:12-17, "Jesus Clears the Temple"

12 Jesus entered the Temple and began to drive out the merchants and their customers. He knocked over the tables of the money changers and the stalls of those selling doves. 13 He said, "The Scriptures declare, `My Temple will be called a place of prayer,' but you have turned it into a den of thieves!"

14 The blind and the lame came to him, and he healed them there in the Temple. 15 The leading priests and the teachers of religious law saw these wonderful miracles and heard even the little children in the Temple shouting, "Praise God for the Son of David." But they were indignant 16 and asked Jesus, "Do you hear what these children are saying?"

"Yes," Jesus replied. "Haven't you ever read the Scriptures? For they say, `You have taught children and infants to give you praise.'" 17 Then he returned to Bethany, where he stayed overnight.
******************************************************************
Link: http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+21&version=51#fen-NLT-23823g

[leftofthedial]

23. when in His Magnificence, He spoketh verily unto George W Bush

and spaketh thus, saying

"It's closing time. George! Wake up. It's time for everyone to leave."

And George Almighty, knowing that he had heard his calling, wenteth forth unto the corners of the very earth itself, makingeth sure that no one was left.

[Geek_Girl]

24. This thread gave me a good idea

I see allot of these Ten Commandments signs in peoples yards around where I live. How about someone make a sign with the Beatitudes and display them on there lawns.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

[sable302]

33. good idea

mind if I steal that one? A large part of the sermon on the mount is commentary by Jesus on the ten commandments anyway.

[Geek_Girl]

35. Don't mind at all

I would love to see a yard sign with the sermon on the mount.

[Amonester]

53. My favorite (Says it all about the AWOL's haves & havemores)

James 5: 1-6

1 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. 2 Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days. 4 Behold, the wages of the labourers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. 5 You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you.

Matthew 19: 16-24

16 And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?" 17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments." 18 He said to him, "Which?" And Jesus said, "You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honour your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbour as yourself." 20 The young man said to him, "All these I have observed; what do I still lack?" 21 Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions. 23 And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

O8)

[stop the bleeding]

26. From all of the time I spend watching the History Channel on the TV box

I know up until around 200-300AD Christians were persecuted pretty much like Jesus, then this Roman General(I forget his name) came along from the out skirts of the Roman Empire(I believe England) and he decided that he was going to control of the Empire. Well he was making pretty good progress until he got to the main River around Rome I believe the Tiber(sorry if spelled wrong). So the story goes he received a vision(a cross) in the sky along with a voice saying if you conquer under this sign then you will attain the Empire and basically be an unstoppable bad ass. Well he did conquer under that sign and was successful in his conquest.

I know this is a little off the point of your question, but here is my reasoning for the rambling. As far as what I know about history, the Bible, and other stories. No where did Jesus conquer anyone, say it was OK or even killed people in his name. I could be wrong but I am under the impression Jesus was for peace, love, helping out the less fortunate etc...

So I find it ironic that "Christians" that basically from one form or another had their faith/religion developed out of the Catholic Church/The New Roman Empire which came into being more or less from the thirst/conquest of this Roman General dude. Keep in mind I am not saying he started it, but he got the ball rolling for other people that came behind him. Up until this guy came along Christians were for peace(which most still are), but after he came along it was OK to kill people for some noble cause or good just as long as you could justify it with some spin - Something that I believe Jesus would never do. I feel that this represents a FUNDAMENTAL shift in what Christians felt was OK based on what the Church said from those times around and after Jesus.

Sorry to keep on but this is important, after Jesus' death there were several different kinds of Christianity with all kinds of beliefs from the mundane to the extreme, but for the most part ALL of them underground. Cause up until the General dude came along Christians were persecuted and killed like dogs by the Romans. Well the Church after this General dude came along said hey we are going to have this convention on some Greek isle I believe where we are gonna call all of the Top Dog Christian Clerics of the time. About 330 of these dudes showed up, but quite a few didn't because there was still a level of distrust in the land as far as Romans and Christians. These Top Dogs are the ones who decided basically what was allowed in the New Testament even as far as the Gnostic(Greek means Knowledge) Books that we often hear about but even several of these didn't fit the Church's idea what was supposed to be in the Bible.

All of this went down as planned by the Church and they were very successful at stomping/smothering most of the other kinds of Christianity by taxing non followers and not taxing followers. This is how more or less is what the animal(s) of Christianity got it's beginning.


Sorry if some of this is inaccurate but I am going from memory and what the TV box stated, I am sure someone will correct me. I know this doesn't answer your question directly but I do feel it shows or helps explain why we have some of these "Christian/Moral Idealisms" propagated about in society even though when these are explored like you are doing end up turning out to be not what they seemed to be.

Well I fired off a long time for another beer :beer:

Who would Jesus bomb?

[benburch]

27. You've made my point quite well.

Christianity sold out when it became the power structure.

*some* Christians today are more like Christ, though, The Quakers, The Brethren, The Mennonites...

Even the Catholic Church has its pockets of the meek and the peace makers today.

[kestrel91316]

54. It's probably a sin, lol, but I'm sort of proud that my g-g-grandfather

was an itinerant Brethren preacher (one-armed, no less) and came from a family of "Dunkers and Minnonites" according to his diary.

I wondered what the deal was when I was doing genealogy research and a whole branch of the family that should have had Revolutionary War veterans among them had not a one. They were religious pacifists.

[omega minimo]

29. "Roman Dude" has his ass handed to him by blue Celts beyond Hadrian's Wall

"I know up until around 200-300AD Christians were persecuted pretty much like Jesus, then this Roman General(I forget his name) came along from the out skirts of the Roman Empire(I believe England) and he decided that he was going to control of the Empire. Well he was making pretty good progress until he got to the main River around Rome I believe the Tiber(sorry if spelled wrong). So the story goes he received a vision(a cross) in the sky along with a voice saying if you conquer under this sign then you will attain the Empire and basically be an unstoppable bad ass. Well he did conquer under that sign and was successful in his conquest."


...........and heads back to dream of conquest in his own backyard under a cross (perhaps dreaming of the Celtic cross)............:boring: :think:

[Lefty48197]

30. I think it was Constantine

who was the first Christian Roman leader.

[deaniac21]

62. Bill and Ted do history!

D U D E !

[omega minimo]

28. When he said "Be ye as the Humvees of the field........."

:evilgrin:



Jesus' commentary on this war would have begun in the moneychangers mall at the temple.........

[Fuzz]

32. Interesting, I just saw this post on Freeperland about this

Kind of convoluted thinking (redundant, I know) but here it is:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1657931/posts

Jesus is a loving god, but definitely not a pacifist

As a veteran and Marine parent, I ignore his ilk. But as a pastor, I sometimes find it necessary to respond to those who flagrantly misuse the Bible to support their biases.

Conservative Bible scholars view Jesus as an eternally co-existent member of the Trinity. Therefore, Jesus participated in destroying Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19 and threatened Nineveh with the same in Jonah 3.

King David, a soldier acclaimed for killing tens of thousands, wrote, "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for You are with me." As a warrior, he experienced the shadowy valley of death frequently.

Jesus honored a Roman soldier in Matthew 8:10 as having greater faith than even his own disciples, rather than recommending he lay down his sword, as you do.

Fortunately for you and me, this same Jesus is a loving God who "is not willing that any perish, but that all come to repentance." Therefore, it’s highly unlikely Jesus will bomb you, and thanks to our brave men and women in uniform, neither will Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and our enemies.

"The purpose of all wars ... is peace."

- Saint Augustine

Philip Dooley, pastor

-----------------------

And then a bunch of replies to that too mind numbing for me to read right now. Enjoying a cigar.

[sable302]

34. gaaaawkkk

That's the sound I made when I read the post.

They really do think that way, though. As a liberal Bible scholar, though, I have a different take on it.

The fact that he accuses people who take 'blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called children of God' to mean that Jesus was a pacifist of being 'convoluted thinkers' makes me chuckle, but even more that he would as a pastor ignore anybody of any 'ilk' is simply astounding.

[Marr]

56. In other words, 'ignore what he actually said and just believe my

tortured excuses".

Seriously- so Jesus' actual words were mostly devoted to promoting peace and charity, but I'm supposed to ignore all that and just listen to bunch of "conservative Bible scholars" who've decided they prefer the Old Testament.

Philip Dooley, you are twisting religion to serve your own hate and fear.

[Patsy Stone]

36. He didn't

But the old time fire & brimstone of the Old Testament is too tempting to pass up.

Since Jesus was a Jew, he would have followed the Old Testament. Since it says stuff like "an eye for a eye", they have extrapolated that he was good with it.

It's fucked up logic.

Lewis Black does a great bit in his latest HBO show about "my book". "That's in my book, not yours."

[me b zola]

37. Do you remember the freeper...

Do you remember the freeper from Crawford who ran over the memorial crosses that Cindy had placed along side the road? That's what freepers have done with Jesus and his teachings--they mowed him down and left him in the ditch for dead.

[benburch]

47. Indeed I do remember him.

[me b zola]

51. That's what the freepers think of Jesus and his teachings

"What you do unto the least of my brothers, you do unto me"

:cry:

[KyuzoGator]

38. I'd like to know where he said to wear your faith on your sleeve. nt

[benburch]

39. He said exactly the opposite.

And in NO uncertain terms!

[seabeyond]

42. pray in a closet. what is it mathew 6:5 n/t

[KyuzoGator]

52. Yup, Matthew 6 pretty much summarized what Christianity SHOULD BE.

And it's pretty much the opposite of what the fundies practice.

[Buxtehude]

41. I saw this the other day

thought it fit here.

"A man without a God is like a fish without a bicycle"
Anonymous


edited for spelling

[Swamp Rat]

43. Who would Jesus bomb?

[seabeyond]

44. what i heard from a graduate of a christian school. jesus says you are

suppose to still honor the old testament and the laws apply and then he went into the old testament of fire and brimstone.

[benburch]

45. No, all he said was the Commandments. nt

[seabeyond]

48. he said something like he did not come here to set aside the old testament

or something ?????

[Sailor for Warner]

58. Yes all 613

Most people forget that the 10 are just the ones Hashem took the time to write down himself :)

[Fierce]

59. I object to the use of "tard" in your insult.

I realize I am in the minority here, but I say it anyway.

[Hubert Flottz]

61. Where is their Love for other human beings?

Where is their forgiveness?

Do they really think God instructs George Bush to lie like he does?(Yellow Cake, Mushroom Clouds, WMD?)