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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 03:59 PM
Original message
Christian Minister's speech regarding "moral values"
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 04:20 PM by RedEarth
....for those who might be in NYC the middle of August, Dr. Meyers will be speaking at Riverside Church...

Subject: A Christian Minister Speaks Out with Clarity and Conviction


Dr. Robin Meyers' Speech to students at University of Oklahoma... back in 2004..


As some of you know, I am minister of Mayflower Congregational Church in Oklahoma City, an Open and Affirming, Peace and Justice church in northwest Oklahoma City, and professor of Rhetoric at Oklahoma City University. But you would most likely have encountered me on the pages of the Oklahoma Gazette, where I have been a columnist for six years, and hold the record for the most number of angry letters to the editor.

Tonight, I join ranks of those who are angry, because I have watched as the faith I love has been taken over by fundamentalists who claim to speak for Jesus, but whose actions are anything but Christian.

We've heard a lot lately about so-called "moral values" as having swung the election to President Bush. Well, I'm a great believer in moral values, but we need to have a discussion, all over this country, about exactly what constitutes a moral value -- I mean what are we talking about? Because we don't get to
make them up as we go along, especially not if we are people of faith. We have an inherited tradition of what is right and wrong, and moral is as moral does.

Let me give you just a few of the reasons why I take issue with those in power who claim moral values are on their side:

1. When you start a war on false pretenses, and then act as if your deceptions are justified because you are doing God's will, and that your critics are either unpatriotic or lacking in faith, there are some of us who have given our lives to teaching and preaching the faith who believe that this is not only not
moral, but immoral.


2. When you live in a country that has established international rules for waging a just war, build the United Nations on your own soil to enforce them, and then arrogantly break the very rules you set down for the rest of the world, you are doing something immoral.


3. When you claim that Jesus is the Lord of your life, and yet fail to acknowledge that your policies ignore his essential teaching, or turn them on their head (you know, Sermon on the Mount stuff like that we must never return violence for violence and that those who live by the sword will die by the sword), you are doing something immoral.


4. When you act as if the lives of Iraqi civilians are not as important as the lives of American soldiers, and refuse to even count them, you are doing something immoral.


5. When you find a way to avoid combat in Vietnam, and then question the patriotism of someone who volunteered to fight, and came home a hero, you are doing something immoral.


6. When you ignore the fundamental teachings of the gospel, which says that the way the strong treat the weak is the ultimate ethical test, by giving tax breaks to the wealthiest among us so the strong will get stronger and the weak will get weaker, you are doing something immoral.


7. When you wink at the torture of prisoners, and deprive so-called "enemy combatants" of the rules of the Geneva convention, which your own country helped to establish and insists that other countries follow, you are doing something immoral.


8. When you claim that the world can be divided up into the good guys and the evil doers, slice up your own nation into those who are with you, or with the terrorists -- and then launch a war which enriches your own friends and seizes control of the oil to which we are addicted, instead of helping us to
kick the habit, you are doing something immoral.


9. When you fail to veto a single spending bill, but ask us to pay for a war with no exit strategy and no end in sight, creating an enormous deficit that hangs like a great millstone around the necks of our children, you are doing something immoral.


10. When you cause most of the rest of the world to hate a country that was once the most loved country in the world, and act like it doesn't matter what others think of us, only what God thinks of you, you have done something immoral.


11. When you use hatred of homosexuals as a wedge issue to turn out record numbers of evangelical voters, and use the Constitution as a tool of discrimination, you are doing something immoral.


12. When you favor the death penalty, and yet claim to be a follower of Jesus, who said an eye for an eye was the old way, not the way of the kingdom, you are doing something immoral.


13. When you dismantle countless environmental laws designed to protect the earth which is God's gift to us all, so that the corporations that bought you and paid for your favors will make higher profits while our children breathe dirty air and live in a toxic world, you have done something immoral. The earth
belongs to the Lord, not Halliburton.


14. When you claim that our God is bigger than their God, and that our killing is righteous, while theirs is evil, we have begun to resemble the enemy we claim to be fighting, and that is immoral. We have met the enemy, and the enemy is us.


15. When you tell people that you intend to run and govern as a "compassionate conservative," using the word which is the essence of all religious faith-compassion, and then show no compassion for anyone who disagrees with you, and no patience with those who cry to you for help, you are doing something immoral.


16. When you talk about Jesus constantly, who was a healer of the sick, but do nothing to make sure that anyone who is sick can go to see a doctor, even if she doesn't have a penny in her pocket, you are doing something immoral.


17. When you put judges on the bench who are racist, and will set women back a hundred years, and when you surround yourself with preachers who say gays ought to be killed, you are doing something immoral.

I'm tired of people thinking that because I'm a Christian, I must be a supporter of President Bush, or that because I favor civil rights and gay rights I must not be a person of faith. I'm tired of people saying that I can't support the troops but oppose the war.

I heard that when I was your age--when the Vietnam war was raging. We knew that war was wrong, and you know that this war is wrong--the only question is how many people are going to die before these make-believe Christians are removed from power?

This country is bankrupt. The war is morally bankrupt. The claim of this administration to be Christian is bankrupt. And the only people who can turn things around are people like you--young people who are just beginning to wake up to what is happening to them. It's your country to take back. It's your faith to take back.

It's your future to take back.

Don't be afraid to speak out. Don't back down when your friends begin to tell you that the cause is righteous and that the flag should be wrapped around the cross, while the rest of us keep our mouths shut. Real Christians take chances for peace. So do real Jews, and real Muslims, and real Hindus, and real
Buddhists--so do all the faith traditions of the world at their heart believe one thing: life is precious.

Every human being is precious. Arrogance is the opposite of faith. Greed is the opposite of charity. And believing that one has never made a mistake is the mark of a deluded man, not a man of faith.

And war -- war is the greatest failure of the human race -- and thus the greatest failure of faith. There's an old rock and roll song, whose lyrics say it all: War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing.

And what is the dream of the prophets? That we should study war no more, that we should beat our swords into plowshares and our spears into pruning hooks. Who would Jesus bomb, indeed? How many wars does it take to know that too many people have died?

What if they gave a war and nobody came? Maybe one day we will find out.

http://www.mayflowerucc.org/listening/PeaceMarchSpeech112004.pdf


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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'll recommend the hell out of this. What a great speech.
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JudyM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. Great book persuasively hitting this theme: Taking Back Our Country from
the Religious Right (The Left Hand of God) by Rabbi Michael Lerner

His new movement: Network of Spiritual Progressives www.spiritualprogressives.org

I wonder if their movements are aware of each other.
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pepperbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. k and r. Wonderful! thanks! n/t
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. "The earth belongs to the Lord, not Halliburton."
That is what the dems should be running on!
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Ravy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Good post! Thank you. (n/t)
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MnFats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Can we clone this man?
if only more clergy were on this track....
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. Many of us are
We just can't get the airtime that Falwell does.
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Flubadubya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. Amen...
what can I say?
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. THIS is absolutely dead on, 100% correct!
"Every human being is precious>'

War is the greatest failure of faith!

This man is awesome. He speaks the truth.

Kicked and recommended.
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lavenderdiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. Finally. This speech says it all.
As a Christian who is darned sick and tired of having assumptions made about her political persuasions because I am a Christian, this speech has quickened my heart. I truly believe that when I get to heaven there will be more than a few surprises as to who is there and who ISN'T there.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. Hey Obama. Seems like we've already got the evangelicals.
sorry you wasted your breath admonishing us there.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. Interesting thing....
Obama and Robin Meyers are members of the same denomination--the United Church of Christ. Barak belongs to Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, the largest congregation in the UCC. Robin Meyers is pastor of Mayflower Congregational United Church of Christ in Oklahoma City.

We're a progressive denomination, but we don't walk in lock-step.
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Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wow!!!! Great article. Thanks. n/t
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. A great big AMEN!
No one who claims to be a person of faith can argue with that. One of the great speeches of our time. One of the great sermons of our time.

Bake
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. this is what I know to be 'true' Christ ianity- K&R
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
13. They will be known by their works
:thumbsup:
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. Amen, Amen and AMEN!! Eloquently stated, and with much deeper and
more sound theology than the empty, shallow CRAP pushed on people by the likes of Falwell, Robertson, and the rest of the TV preachers who have literally enthroned themselves.
I am sending this on to everyone I know.
Thanks for posting!
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KatyaR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. Robin Meyers rocks!
He's one of our favorites here in OKC. He has fought long and hard against the death penalty in Oklahoma and has gained quite a following.

Good choice!
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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
16. Damn;
My brother's an ordained minister, trained at the oral sex univ and lives in Tulsa. While he is not THE minister at the Victory church, he does other crap and is an active member there. My parents visited he and his family there and went to church services on a Sunday. They ended up walking out of the service because the minister was leading the congregation who were giving the nazi hand salute while talking about hitler. It takes all kinds!
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LongTomH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. Applause from a former Oklahoman,
I grew up and lived in Oklahoma for most of my life before moving to KC. I can tell you, Dr. Myers is literally risking his life publically witnessing to his beliefs like this!

I wish there were more like him.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
18. If you ever want to hear sermons like these just go here
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Reckon Donating Member (729 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. RedEarth, nice find
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 09:16 PM by Reckon
Your post truly adds great value to an already great info day at DU.

I feel better prepared to go out and spread the word.

God bless Dr. Robin Meyers

Saved, K&R
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. K & R. This guy needs to step into the void left when MLK was killed.
Either that, or we need to draft him for the Dem nomination in 2008.

What a speech! I am near tears.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
23. all these points are important . . . but #4 especially . . .
4. When you act as if the lives of Iraqi civilians are not as important as the lives of American soldiers, and refuse to even count them, you are doing something immoral.

every time I hear anyone, on the right or on the left, mention the increasing number of American casualties in Iraq, I cringe . . .

anyone with even a shred of common decency would NEVER talk about American casualties without also talking about Iraqi casualties . . . which are greater in number than American casualties my several orders of magnitude . . . and not one single iota less important . . .

and since many, if not most, Iraqi casualties are civilians, a case can be made that they are, in fact, MORE important . . .
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. I can only speak for myself and not the entire left,
but when I am discussing casualty numbers I also mostly speak of American soldiers. It isn't because I don't care about the Iraqis, though- it is because of who my target audience is. I'm usually trying to make a new convert when I'm discussing the war, and it usually takes baby steps for them to come to our side. After they're "coverted, then I can start talking about the many innocent Iraqis who've been caught in the crossfire, but sadly it's almost counterproductive for me to do so at the beginning.

And I doubt I'm the only one who employs this tactic.
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
24. We need more outspoken religious figures like that.
Let people know that the US isn't bowing to a bunch of religious fanatics.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
25. Wonderful sermon from a real Christian. K&R.
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
26. wow
Does anyone know if he's been on State of Belief? He'd be a great guest.
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a la izquierda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
27. I've heard that...
this particular minister is a stand-up guy. A few of my professors attend his church (hint: I'm a grad student in one of the more liberal disciplines). They love his message, and I've really appreciated some of his columns in the Oklahoma Gazette.
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
28. Wow, if I could find a church like that
I might start attending again.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
29. K & R. And giving lip service to extremists to court the vote is not
moral.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
30. "... the way the strong treat the weak is the ultimate ethical test ..."
Amen.
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
31. And I need to keep reminding myself that not all
Christians are made equal. This guy is good. I wish I could have heard or been at his speech in person. Excellent!
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XOKCowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
32. An Okie Christian minister that actually READS the bible??
I'm amazed there is such a creature. Excellent speech. Recommended
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IndependentVoice Donating Member (330 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
34. That is what a real religious person looks like, God bless we need more
like you
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
36. THIS IS THE TYPE OF STATEMENT NEEDED TO COOL DOWN DU HOTHEADS!!!
Look I am not saying that the Relgious Right should not be criticized. I am just saying that it is bigoted and naive to lump all Christians or even most Christians into the same dungpile.

Cut the rest of us some slack by not painting us with same broadbrush.
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