The problem is the word "liberal" vs the word "conservative"

[rudy23]

(I cross posted this in another thread, but I wanted to see what people thought of this idea)

It is easier for the right to turn the word "liberal" into a pejorative term than it is to do with the word "conservative".

The word liberal already has negative connotations before it even enters the political fray. The word "liberal" can mean loose, careless, reckless, rash, etc.

It's harder to find a problem with the word "conservative." It's a term that commands more respect. It implies a reserved, rational mindset that's never too frivolous, never too quick to rush to judgement, or give anything away without weighing the consequences.

Who would you rather let handle your finances, a person who is described as being conservative-minded, or someone with a liberal spirit? Who would you hire to look after your children?

As much as I hate to react in any way to the denigration of the word "liberal", I think we should go with "progressive". It's forward thinking, and it contains the word "progress". Everybody likes progress. Almost everybody has been burned by someone in their lived who was too "liberal" with something or another, and it's just too negative of a term.

[rucky]

1. We'll just call 'em "Cons" n/t

[gilpo]

32. And if we're lucky....ex-cons in a few years!

[LisaM]

2. I disagree. I think "Liberal" means open, honest, kind, generous

and non-judgemental.

Conservative means afraid to change, entrenched, not open to change, progression or new ideas.

I like the term "progressive" just fine, because it is opposite of what today's Republicans are which is, in my view, regressive. But I am not ashamed of, nor will I renounce, the word Liberal. Ever.

[bryant69]

3. I kind of agree

I think both terms (Conservative and Liberal) have enough possible negative connotations attached to them to be problemattic, but abandoning the term Liberal is just shooting ourselves in the collective foot, in my opinion.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Redstone]

4. I'm proud of being a liberal. As for our opponents, I suggest

"Flaming Shitheels."

Redstone

[Ron Green]

5. The true conservatives are not nearly as harmful as the extremists.

[unpossibles]

6. although I see exactly what you mean

I like the word liberal ("free") and the word progressive ("move forward"), and dislike "conservative"

lib·er·al P Pronunciation Key (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.
Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
...
Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.
Archaic. Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth; befitting a lady or gentleman.
Obsolete. Morally unrestrained; licentious.


Ok, the last one is kind of rough, but at it's roots, Liberalism means Freedom

But I know what you mean. Sadly, however, they will call us what they call us. We can retake the word, but not without some help from the media (who is afraid of the label).

[rudy23]

13. "Morally unrestrained"--that's the big one

I honestly can't think of a meaning for "conservative" that's nearly as bad. I guess you can say if someone's conservative with their love, or with their charity, that could be bad. Still, "conservative" implies wisdom. It doesn't imply that a person is miserly, it implies that they've weighed what they can give, and will give in the spirit of conserving what they need.

To me, even if a person is "liberal" with their love, and generosity, it implies recklessness. Loving to the point of excess, generous to the point of foolishness. Again, "morally unrestrained" is what comes to mind when a lot of people hear "liberal".

[LisaM]

20. Republicans are morally unrestrained. They are greedy

usorious, unscrupulous, vindictive, elitist, and selfish.

Perhaps we just have a different idea of what comprises morality.

[rudy23]

30. Does the word "conservative" mean that, though?

That's my point. Of course I know they're truly morally unrestrained, but my argument is that the definition of the word "liberal", which includes "morally unrestrained" makes it easier for them to turn "liberal" into a dirty word, than it is for us to turn "conservative" into a dirty word.

[unpossibles]

31. Like I said, I can see your point but I think that the problem

is that they could smear anything. They associate Liberal with Communist, Godless, etc.

[applegrove]

7. Liberalism won the cold war, the WWII, and every democracy in

the world is a Liberal Democracy. The reason cons want to besmirch to word so much is because LIBERAL describes every economy in the world except for CUBA!

Liberal is a great word. It is used all over the world. USA is the only place where that word is looked down on.

Please. Beware of the dance of the words. :rofl: Last year it was that Hitler wasn't a fascist. And Wilson's Liberalism that caused WWII. So WWII was the Liberals fault. Perhaps in a few years.. neocons would have us calling Hitler a LIBERAL (he traded! he mixed government and business!).Communism was also Liberals fault.

Please.

Liberals won.. the world over. We won.

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. Because "life, conservation and the pursuit of happiness"

is that phrase used in the Declaration of Independence, isn't it?

"Conservative" means stuck in the past. It has plenty of negative connotations of its own - the opposite to it is indeed "progressive". People talk about the "liberal arts", "liberal democracies". You've bought the Republican spin if you think 'liberal' is too negative.

[Canuckistanian]

9. See, you're falling into their trap

"Liberal" doesn't mean loose, careless or reckless. THEY'RE trying to sell the definition of "liberal" that way.

It may be a lot of people's PERCEPTIONS that that's the case, but then a lot of people think Walt Disney is in a freezer somewhere.

Please don't buy into that mindset. Calmly remind people that "Liberal" is defined this way in the dictionary:

li-ber-al adj.
1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2.Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded. c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.

[stellanoir]

10. as if

the land formally recognized as the land of diversity only has two points of view.

[ourbluenation]

11. Progressive vs Traditionalists is how I look at it. eom

[WI_DEM]

12. I disagree liberal means forward looking while conservative

means stand pat.

[kentjay44]

14. i`m a liberal

and am quite worried about the upcoming elections,i`m retired military,i`m so concerned that if the rethugs still control all 3 branches in nov i`m moving to europe.europe has become more liberal then when the original colonists first came here.i hate worrying about our govt.i want to be left alone and not bothered by correcting the worlds problems,lets correct ours and the world do the same.of course my prime worry about moving to europe is to collect my 3 retirements,i would prefer to stay in the country that i was born in and served for 27 years,but this is rediculous,the buffoons that run this country would be ........ in another country for incompetance.right now i`m very frustrATED.CAN`T EVEN TYPE THIS,JESUS H. CHRIST GET A GODAMN GRIP YOU ASSHOLE S IN THE GOVT.VERY SORRY FOR THE OUTBURST.PEACE

[tjwash]

15. Fuck that shit. I'm a LIBERAL and god damned proud of it.

If you can’t be proud of the fact that Liberalism bore the original concept of Democracy in Greece, and that it bore the love not hate, forgiveness not vengeance theme of Christianity, you should be. If you can’t be proud of the fact that Liberals like us, when we work together can bring about such things as the Reformation, the Enlightenment and the Renaissance, you should be.

Liberals like us halted slavery, ended the concept of women as property, stopped child labor, promoted unions, and created the middle class. Liberals fought to give women the vote, and bring the old out of poverty with programs such as Social Security and Medicare. Liberals stood up to beat Hitler, marched by the millions to stop Jim Crow, segregation, and ensure everyone had equal rights regardless of their skin color.

Liberals also ended the war in Vietnam, put a dent in the grievous pollution of our air and water, and at least try to pull children out of poverty.

Conservatives throughout time, fought all those issues tooth and nail. Think about that next time a hate merchant such as Ann Coulter, or Sean Hannity attempt to degrade the term Liberal.

[rudy23]

18. Of course I'm not criticizing the philosophy. I'm saying it's a bad term.

Please don't misunderstand. This is about language, not ideology. I'm saying that conservatives are at a linguistic advantage over us, because the word "conservative" is a much more positive word than "liberal" to begin with.

[Old and In the Way]

27. "bad term"? "more positive"?

Obviously, you have bought it. For the rest of us...sorry, no sale.

[Totally Committed]

16. First of all, neither term applies across-the-board to the Parties

with which they used to be associated.

The "Conservative" Republicans have run up a trillion+ deficit -- "spending like drunken sailors", and the "Liberal" Democrats have to contend with the cynically Triangulated-Right Right DLC and a host of DINOs, some of whom are just to the Right of Attila the Hun.

The labels no longer apply.

TC

[rudy23]

17. "Liberal" means good things to us. We associate it with Democrats.

When you remove it from politics, it's just a more negative word.

Someone said "liberal" means "progressive" and "forward thinking". Another person said it means the same as "liberty". No it doesn't. Not at all.

The word has those positive connotations to you and me, because of what we associate it with. However, we're already converted. It's those who are influenced by hearing the negative use of the word "liberal" that we could more easily attract with a better name.

[CrispyQ]

19. I'm not throwing out one of the best descriptives of our views.

You are falling for decades old propaganda that liberal is bad. It is not. 'Liberal' has been made a dirty word by Republican think tanks like the Heritage Foundation and Republican linguist Frank Luntz.

Instead of avoiding the word liberal, we should take it back & embrace it. When people call us out on our liberal views we should be ready to recite the definition of liberal to them. I also like to remind them that liberty is based on the same root word as liberal. And of course, the "Joe Conservative" essay goes a long way to illustarte the contributions of liberal thought & actions.

http://www.hcdems.com/misc/joe_conservative.html


=====
lib·er·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.

1.
a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
d. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

2.
a. Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
b. Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
c. Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
d. Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.

Archaic. Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth; befitting a lady or gentleman.
Obsolete. Morally unrestrained; licentious.

[rudy23]

23. "loose or approximate"

It's only a small part of the definition, but it's there, and it's there in the minds of all the swing voters out there.

Would you trust people with your money, safety, and children who had been described as "loose or approximate"?

[Catherine Vincent]

21. When friends of mine ask me the difference between the two...

I tell them to look at it this way:

Conservatives were the slave owners. They have to agree with me. We all know there is no way liberals would be slave owners.

[LSK]

22. maybe thats why the term Progressive is popular

[Richardo]

24. T'was not always thus...

In 'Citizen Kane', for example, CF Kane is introduced at his political rally as 'the fighting liberal', a reformer going up against 'Boss' Gettes. That being a good thing.

[Xenotime]

25. You all are missing the pugs meaning when the say liberal...

To the repugs those words mean:

Liberal means a liberal application of government. Government to enact laws for doing this or that. Government to provide safety and security. Government for protection and well-being.

Conservative means a conservative application of government. Government to allow the citizens to decide what is right and wrong. Government that allows the citizens to protect themselves and secure their propert.

If you are going to argue with a pug...you have to know how they think and what ideas are triggered when they hear certain words. Then, you will be able to win them over. Otherwise, you both will stand there sounding stupid.

[Old and In the Way]

26. Why don't they have a Conservative Arts Degree in Education?

A Liberal Arts degree is a curricula that exposes the student to a little bit of everything. The Conservative Arts degree, assuming it would be the antithesis of the LA degree, would be learning much about nothing.

Only cons hate people who are liberal. Because we expose them as the cons that they are.

[rudy23]

28. Does even one person get the argument I'm trying to make?

I'm NOT saying conservatives are better than liberals. I'm not a freakin' troll for godssakes.

I'm NOT saying that liberals embody those qualities that conservatives say we do. I'm NOT saying we should accept the negative connotations that conservatives have attached to the word.

I'm saying that the Webster dictionary definition of the word "liberal" has more negative connotations than the word "conservative". When those terms became commonly assigned to describe the major parties, Democrats got the short end of the stick.

We could adopt a new word, like "progressives", or we have to work extra hard to overcome the "loose, approximate" facets of the dictionary definition of "liberal" that are assigned to us.

Am I not making sense?

[many a good man]

29. The words are not the problem-- its black and white thinking

I think it would be easier to change people's connotations than introduce a new political word into the vocabulary.

Lakoff would agree with you but I don't. Running away from the Liberal label just validates the right's smear of us being weak. Although I do adore the framing of PROgressive vs. REgressive!