Joe Scarborough thinks "Sweet Home Alabama" is a conservative song

[Syrinx]

He thinks it's pro-George Wallace and pro-Richard Nixon. What an idiot! :eyes:

[Eric J in MN]

1. I agree with him.

At least that it's pro-Nixon.

I don't know about Wallace.

[FredScuttle]

13. How is it pro-Nixon?

I thought the line referencing Watergate was more a poke a Northern criticism of Southern racism while the Federal Government (run by "Northerners") was breaking laws left and right. More like a "watch where you point that finger, man" and intended to say the South wasn't alone when it came to bad behavior.

In Birmingham they love the governor
Now we all did what we could do
Now Watergate does not bother me
Does your conscience bother you?
Tell the truth

[mitchum]

52. Proof that you much better interpretive skill than than Eric J...

and also are reflective rather than reflexive

[Eric J in MN]

Saying Watergate doesn't bother him isn't pro-Nixon?

MT

[mitchum]

59. If, as an American, Watergate didn't cause him (or the listener)...

to succumb to paroxysms of collective guilt, why should he as a southerner feel guilty for the actions of some of his region?
It's really pretty damn simple. I could figure out the lyric when I was fourteen.

[Eric J in MN]

68. OK, I see what you're saying. NT

NT

[FredScuttle]

83. Didn't mean to jump on you

It's completely reasonable to read that lyric as being "pro-Nixon"...I was just weighing in with my thoughts on what they were really trying to say...basically "You want to call us racist rednecks? Well, I'm going to throw Watergate in your face, Yankee!"

[karynnj]

67. The word at the time was that it was an answer to

Neil Young's Southern Man. It was pro south. I never picked up the Watergate line as poking the North. Nixon was from Southern California. I took it that they didn't care about Watergate and thought we liberals should feel quilty pushing him out.

[FredScuttle]

88. It was a response to "Southern Man"

One of classic response songs, in fact. I doubt they knew Nixon was from Southern California - I think they dropped the Watergate reference in to remind us Yankees that our laundry ain't so clean either.

[karynnj]

90. As a Northern, I REFUSE Nixon, he's yours.

In fact at the end of his life, he wanted to live in NYC - but was turned down at at least 2 co-ops.

[FredScuttle]

91. Hey, I'm a Northerner too

and I ain't claiming his evil ass. Let the hounds of hell have him.

[karynnj]

123. Sounds good to me

I didn't look at profile - just wanted to quickly disown him even though he lived in Saddle River, NJ at the end of his life when NYC wouldn't take him.

[Quantess]

103. "I hope Neil Young will remember....."

"southern man don't need him around anyhow"

[Carni]

120. My interpretation was similar

I thought it translated to:
"watergate does not bother me" (they thought Nixon shouldn't be impeached)

"Does your conscience bother you" (are your liberal closets clean and squeaky? where did you get off impeaching Nixon)

Again JMO

[SPKrazy]

157. Southern California Is The "South"????

that's a new spin

sorry

Nixon is from the West

[Syrinx]

179. I think you read that post wrong

[Moloch]

97. Sounds pretty pro-Wallace to me.....

Does it not to you?

Alabamians lionized that racist piece of shit in those days and most of them still do now.

[FredScuttle]

99. See below

a post downthread references the background singers saying "boo, boo, boo" after Ronnie Van Zandt mentions the governor.

[tularetom]

2. Whole lotta 'necks around here think so too

[mitchum]

53. So do a whole lotta smug elitists around here

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

3. It is anti-Neil Young, so I guess ipso facto

it is conservative, no?

[FredScuttle]

17. Except Neil and the band got along famously after that

Neil even wore a Skynyrd t-shirt in concert and covered "Sweet Home Alabama" live. He said in an interview, when the journalist mentioned that they put him down by name in the song, that "Oh, they didn't really put me down"

[Syrinx]

31. And here's Ronnie Van Zant wearing a Neil Young shirt

I know it's hard to see, but that is a Neil Young shirt that Ronnie is wearing in the picture.

[Syrinx]

18. "Ronnie And Neil" By The Drive-By Truckers

Church blew up in Birmingham
Four little black girls killed for no goddamn good reason
All this hate and violence can't come to no good end
A stain on the good name.
A whole lot of good people dragged threw the blood and glass
Blood stains on their good names and all of us take the blame

Meanwhile in North Alabama, Wilson Pickett comes to town
To record that sweet soul music, to get that Muscle Shoals sound

Meanwhile in North Alabama, Aretha Franklin comes to town
To record that sweet soul music, to get that Muscle Shoals sound

And out in California, a rock star from Canada writes a couple of great songs about the
Bad shit that went down
"Southern Man" and "Alabama" certainly told some truth
But there were a lot of good folks down here and Neil Young wasn't around

Meanwhile in North Alabama, Lynyrd Skynyrd came to town
To record with Jimmy Johnson at Muscle Shoals Sound
And they met some real good people, not racist pieces of shit
And they wrote a song about it and that song became a hit

Ronnie and Neil Ronnie and Neil
Rock stars today ain't half as real
Speaking there minds on how they feel
Let them guitars blast for Ronnie and Neil

Now Ronnie and Neil became good friends their feud was just in song
Skynyrd was a bunch of Neil Young fans and Neil he loved that song
So He wrote "Powderfinger" for Skynyrd to record
But Ronnie ended up singing "Sweet Home Alabama" to the lord

And Neil helped carry Ronnie in his casket to the ground
And to my way of thinking, us southern men need both of them around

Ronnie and Neil Ronnie and Neil Rock stars today ain't half as real
Speaking their minds on how they feel
Let them guitars blast for Ronnie and Neil

[jdlh8894]

27. Just DAMN!!

Had the great honor and privelidge to play with the barefooted,tophatted man about 6 months before the great sky took him down. Still plays a great part in this old farts memory!

[Syrinx]

80. I bet you have some great stories to tell!

Be sure to pm me if you decide to share! :)

[yardwork]

29. " Powderfinger" is a brilliant song

If only the morans who call themselves "conservatives" really cared about poor people and country people. Neil Young did more for people with "Powderfinger" alone than all those jackasses in Washington ever did.

[RagAss]

47. Classic tune...saw Neil with Crazy Horse perform that live...

Back in the late 70's...The Live Rust tour....never got much radio airtime....pure rock and roll ....

[Sugarcoated]

37. Wow

What a great song. Which CD is that on?

Edit: The Drive by Truckers song, I mean.

[Syrinx]

45. It's from "Southern Rock Opera"

It's a very interesting record. Um, CD. :)

[nealmhughes]

54. Thanks for the shout out for Pat and Cooley and the boys of DBT!

They's my homeboys... Pat Hood's father is David Hood, who in the classic soul song "I'll take you there" is the "Little David, David, David" is the person to whom Mavis Staples is singing. He and Roger Hawkins were part of the Muscle Shoals Rhythm Section with David on bass and Roger on drums. They are friends of mine.
Pat Hood explains the song in some liner notes that are on the DBT website (obvious address). It seems that Neil and Ronnie were in a "mock" feud, when in reality they were very good friends. The lyrics are completely satirical in Sweet Home. It is also a huge money maker, just like Freebird.
As a late teen when the plane went down, I was honestly devastated, utterly and completely, like my mom was at Elvis's alleged death.
If any of you like the DBT, check out their early work, like "Alabama Ass Whupping" and "Pizza Delivery" and their pentultimate, "Decoration Day." "Late for Church" and "Panties in Your Purse" are real crowd pleasers, though it's hard to get them to play it these days. But I'll remember those many many nights in Florence and Tuscaloosa and Bham hearing the Driveby Truckers live...

[Syrinx]

76. They used to come to Tuscaloosa all the time

I've only got to really know their stuff in the last couple of years. I saw them once on the University Strip. Kind of unusual, and very, very good. :thumbsup:

[Carni]

121. I had no idea the fight was just drama

Interesting info...honestly I was totally turned off by LS back in the day as a result of lyrics to the song sweet home alabama.

Guess I was wrong and they weren't right wingers.

Apparently what they were saying in sarcasm went right over my head back then--
but to my credit I was about 12 when I first started getting into music lyrics.

[fishwax]

92. neil young has had his conservative moments as well

such as supporting ronnie raygun. :evilfrown:

[mitchum]

94. And his favorable opinion of curtailing civil liberties in the days...

immediately following September 11
He's a hell of a right wing tool more than Ronnie Van Zant ever was (which was never)

[Pirate Smile]

4. I agree with Joe.

I still like the song though.

[JerseygirlCT]

5. Yeah, I would have to agree. One more reason I never could

stand them!

[mitchum]

55. Good that we don't judge all of you by the greasy eloquence of Joe Pesci

[JerseygirlCT]

85. Did you see me judging anyone but a band I can't stand, spouting

opinions I dislike?

Or is that not allowed?

And if you want to play that game, I'll put Springsteen (my neck of the woods) up against L.S. any day of the week.

[FredScuttle]

89. Springsteen, yes

but you have to take BonJovi too...urgh.

[JerseygirlCT]

93. LOL NO! You can't make me!

Although he seems like he's probably a very nice guy (and a Dem), I can't stand his music, either.

[FredScuttle]

98. Ah, it's a wash

You still got the Boss, Southside Johnny, Count Basie, Lauryn Hill, and, of course, ol' Blue Eyes

[Carni]

122. I didn't like Bon Jovi either BUT...

I watched him at an Al Gore rally in 2000--he played an acoustic guitar and performed "Dead or alive" (guess that is the name I had never liked the song)
Giving him credit he was very good...much better than I would have expected.
I am not a fan of Bon Jovi music (I was not into the whole hair band deal)
but after hearing him live I do think he has talent (and he's also a huge supporter of the Dems)I have also heard he's a very nice down to earth guy!

[JerseygirlCT]

135. I know. I don't have to like the band to like the person

and agree with him.

And my son, the musician, says Sambora's a terrific guitarist.

I'm with you though -- hair bands turn me off. And I have to admit, that when the band first started making it, there were so many "the next Springsteen" that I just completely turned off. There's just no comparison there, except that they both come from NJ. Not Bon Jovi's fault that was being done, either.

[Carni]

138. Yep! I hear you lol

There was a period of time in the 80's when the music (except for a limited amount) REALLY sucked IMO and the hair bands were big offenders! lol

[LostinVA]

128. He at least helps Habitat for Humanity out n/t

[Swamp Rat]

106. Suggestion: read Lynard Skynard's lyrics and do a tiny bit of research

about the history of the band. You may be surprised to find your initial impression of Lynard Skynard is contrary to the truth. They were anti-Nixon (the raised money for Jimmy Carter and helped get him elected), anti-racism, anti-right wing (they 'booed' Governor Wallace in their music), anti-drug abuse, anti-drinking and driving, etc. Though, this may have no effect on the aesthetics of the sound produced or whether you will learn to like their overall sound. I find some songs very 'tired' because I have heard them what seems like a MILLION TIMES! Personally, I mostly listen to renaissance, baroque, impressionistic music, jazz, folk, samba, etc. as well as perform this music professionally, but LS was a great rock band and wrote very prescient songs.

[JerseygirlCT]

116. Well, you might get me to read the lyrics and give that some

thought. But I still just plain dislike them. I'm not a "southern rock" fan at all. It's just not my thing -- maybe for reasons I cannot completely explain!

[Swamp Rat]

145. You don't have to explain

I understand. If someone doesn't like the sonic characteristics of a piece of music or a band, then it really doesn't matter how great are the lyrics - the sound will remain displeasing to the ear. Unless I am actually playing, I get VERY bored of hearing most rock, blues, jazz and funk, etc. It is overplayed and I hear it 24/7 in New Orleans... though, I love to play funk with my samba band during Mardi Gras. I love cajun and zydeco music too, but I want to rip out my hair and stuff bananas in my ears after about 10 minutes. :D

[Carni]

124. I had no idea they weren't wingnuts until this thread!

I just sort of lumped them in with Charlie Daniels band, JGeils and those types back then and assumed they must be right wingers.

Actually I don't know that JGeils were right winged either so I guess I shouldn't comment on that and make yet another blunder!

This has been an illumnating thread.

[JerseygirlCT]

134. Well, we know Charlie Daniels is for sure.

I don't know about J Geils, either.

(But I do know both of them fall into my "don't like" category, too!)

[Carni]

141. Gawd I HATED that "Devil went down to Georgia"

By Charlie Daniels or whatever that horrid song was called--it was very highly regarded by most of my 9th grade peers at the time and to me it just sounded like some old country commercialized type crap lol

Another band I didn't like from that era were "The Doobie Brothers" esp that guy with the long hair and fu man chu mustache---he ended up being a consultant for Bush and his star wars type weapons defense system back in like 00 or 01!
Clearly he WAS a jerk just as I suspected (I guess I'm not always wrong! lol)

[nsd]

155. Charlie Daniels is associated with the right wing now, but ...

that wasn't always the case. He was a friend and big supporter of Jimmy Carter.

[Bridget Burke]

136. If you'd read the whole, thread, you'd know they weren't wing nuts....

Although the post-crash band is quite different.

[Carni]

140. Well that is the point.... now I HAVE read the whole thread

I am recanting my initial accusations about them...

sheesh! I admitted I was wrong what more do you want, blood?

[Bridget Burke]

142. Sorry. I guess I hadn't read the whole thread....

Enough to see your recantation!

[Carni]

144. No problem! eom :)

[Yollam]

6. He's right.

It is.

[Syrinx]

16. no it isn't

Unless you consider civil rights a conservative issue.

The last line "Yeah, Montgmomery's got the answer" is a reference to the Selma to Montgomery march.

[TomInTib]

7. I agree. That song was aimed directly at the trailer trash in

the Florida Panhandle and the Gulf States.

I have been in bars where that song elicited "God Bless George Wallace" and other crap like that.

No offense intended.

Those double guitar riffs, while easy to play, were just brilliant.

[emulatorloo]

8. Exhibit A - the Lyrics:

Big wheels keep on turning
Carry me home to see my kin
Singing songs about the southland
I miss alabamy once again
And I think its a sin, yes

Well I heard mister young sing about her
Well, I heard ole neil put her down
Well, I hope neil young will remember
A southern man dont need him around anyhow

Sweet home alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet home alabama
Lord, Im coming home to you

In birmingham they love the governor
Now we all did what we could do
Now watergate does not bother me
Does your conscience bother you?
Tell the truth

Sweet home alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet home alabama
Lord, Im coming home to you
Here I come alabama

Now muscle shoals has got the swampers
And theyve been known to pick a song or two
Lord they get me off so much
They pick me up when Im feeling blue
Now how about you?

Sweet home alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet home alabama
Lord, Im coming home to you

Sweet home alabama
Oh sweet home baby
Where the skies are so blue
And the governors true
Sweet home alabama
Lordy
Lord, Im coming home to you
Yea, yea montgomerys got the answer

[Rex]

9. Joe is crazy; I can't imagine how his mind works.

Then again, I've never killed an intern, lost my congressional job over it and had to find a job as a news cretin on the 'bottom bin' of 24/7 news. It amazes me the man can even think.

[yardwork]

10. lyrics here

The reference to the governor in Birmingham is to George Wallace. The song appears to be promoting racism and segregation, but there's a little more to it than that.

Lynyrd Skynyrd wrote the song as a push-back to Neil Young's "Southern Man," and they made the lyrics to "Sweet Home Alabama" deliberately over the top. Neil Young and Lynyrd Skynyrd got along better than their dueling songs would suggest. I've always hoped that LS didn't really mean the words - maybe they did though.

Big wheels keep on turning
Carry me home to see my kin
Singing songs about the Southland
I miss Alabamy once again
And I think its a sin, yes

Well I heard mister Young sing about her
Well, I heard ole Neil put her down
Well, I hope Neil Young will remember
A Southern man don't need him around anyhow

Sweet home Alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet Home Alabama
Lord, I'm coming home to you

In Birmingham they love the governor
Now we all did what we could do
Now Watergate does not bother me
Does your conscience bother you?
Tell the truth

Sweet home Alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet Home Alabama
Lord, I'm coming home to you
Here I come Alabama

Now Muscle Shoals has got the Swampers
And they've been known to pick a song or two
Lord they get me off so much
They pick me up when I'm feeling blue
Now how about you?

Sweet home Alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet Home Alabama
Lord, I'm coming home to you

Sweet home Alabama
Oh sweet home baby
Where the skies are so blue
And the governor's true
Sweet Home Alabama
Lordy
Lord, I'm coming home to you
Yea, yea Montgomery's got the answer

[Lochloosa]

12. I live in LS home town....trust me...they meant every word of it.

[jbnow]

72. Perhaps a key part of the lyrics

is what the background singers are singing? This came up in an old debate at a gathering and listening there seemed to be no doubt that part (the bolded section) was as noted here

http://www.sing365.com/music/Lyric.nsf/Sweet-Home-Alabama-lyrics-Lynyrd-Skynyrd/EC7A401C9C6849E7482569EB0011D74C

In Birmingham they love the governor
boo, boo, boo
Now we all did what we could do
Now Watergate does not bother me
Does your conscience bother you?
Tell the truth

People (including those connected with the band) note it says in Birmingham THEY love the governor (followed by the boos) as though to show not all did and that it wasn't them that did.
That they all did what they could do? They did what they could do by protesting and voting against him. That was all they could do. Following it with Watergate was like "So is everyone guilty because of Watergate?" as though further noting not everyone in Alabama was guilty of Wallace's misdeeds.

Well maybe. But Birmingham? The biggest city? The city of such racial upheaval in 63? What?

In the end they say "Montgomery's got the answer". Surviving members have said that refers to the Martin Luther King Selma to Montgomery civil rights march. I can believe that except what could "And the governor's true" mean that is not supportive of Wallace? Strange but true? Generally calling someone true is a compliment...

On the other hand Skynyrd did a lot to help get Carter elected, raising a lot of money for him. Van Zant even changed the lyrics to a line of the song once from "Montgomery's got the answer" to "Mr. Carter's got the answer" at a concert in 77 (as seen in "Freebird - the Movie").

But the governor's true? If they didn't mean it as support perhaps the back up singers should have been singing "we wish he was just fiction". Plenty of racists really like this song...

[enki23]

11. er... it is. that's what it's f**king known for, other than being catchy.

no brilliance required. "conservative" of course, used in the political sense.

[Syrinx]

25. a lot of people misunderstand the song

But I'd think a former congressman and a law school graduate would understand.

"(Ronnie Van Zant would) just as soon go onstage wearing one of several Neil Young T-shirts that he owned in order to fuck with any yahoos in the crowd who missed the humor and irony of the “Sweet Home Alabama” lyrics."

From the book "Lynyrd Skynyrd" by Gene Odom.

[Arugula Latte]

14. Well, it is, isn't it?

It was made in response to Neil Young's song, "Southern Man," which was critical of southern redneck males.

[Syrinx]

20. Neil Young was guilty of sweeping generalizations

And that was what the song criticized.

[mitchum]

56. Absofuckinglutely! I don't know why that is so hard for some people....

to get their minds around.

[Syrinx]

73. when started this thread...

I thought it might be a funny little Joe-bashing thread. I'm very surprised at how many people have it all exactly wrong. In some cases, I think people are seeing it that way because they want to.

[REP]

82. I Confess

Until tonight, I had misunderstood the lyrics. I'm not a huge fan (obviously), so I haven't heard the song that many times so seeing the lyrics written out and reading yours and Syrinx's explanation made the other interpretation make sense.

It's hard not to enjoy the song, but having this version in mind will make it more fun to hear.

[Syrinx]

107. We have a convert!

:)

It's a damn cool song... I still dig it... even though I've heard it about a half-million times.

It just never occurred to me that it stood for anything other than what it obviously (to me) does.

A lot of people on this board just reflexively oppose anything that contains the words "Alabama" or "south," which is a HUGE mistake if we ever want to take our country back.

[Ksec]

15. Its southern redneck rock

[jody]

19. I see you have the typical elitist replies. Their comments support the

cartoon at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1520638&mesg_id=1520638

The smallest 25 states have about 16% of the population, mostly rednecks, but their senators could control the Senate if they choose to work together. Politicians who enjoy losing elections and control of congress ignore rednecks.

[Pirate Smile]

21. Not all the replies were elitist.

Mine certainly wasn't.

[jody]

26. Sorry, I should have said "some" of the replies were elitist. n/t

[Arugula Latte]

23. Give me a fucking break.

You really believe that cariacture of liberals is true to form?

[jody]

24. Yes for a few. n/t

[Solon]

111. You have to remember, Northeast Liberal Elitist=Jew...

at least around here, and probably in most places in the country. No surprise there. :shrug:

[Bridget Burke]

137. You're the one who said "Northeast Liberal Elitist"....

In the context of this thread, "elitist" means someone who's too dense to understand the lyrics of a song--because of their contempt for working class Southerners. Some of them are from the great Northwest, the Midwest--or non-working-class folks from the South.

[Solon]

147. No offense, but any group that puts the CS battle flag on their albums...

is NOT a group I would want to be associated with. I rest my case:





Also, sorry if I spelled out what the shorthand is short for, besides, its still code for Jew, can't really deny that.

[Bridget Burke]

149. Ronnie van Zandt was the main songwriter & real soul of the band.

He was killed in a plane crash, along with 2 other band members, a roadie, the pilot & co-pilot of the plane. That was in 1977.

The band eventually reformed & have gotten onto the Rightwing Political Bandwagon. They--not the "real" Lynyrd Skynyrd--are responsible for the offensive album covers. Those date from 1987.

www.lynyrdskynyrd.com/disc2006.htm

So--you just assume that those who know a bit about Lynyrd Skynyrd are anti-Semitic? I can deny anything I like.

[Solon]

156. No, I didn't say that....

I was talking about the cultural reasons why using terms like "Elitist" are anti-semitic, if you want, I could give you a HUGE synopsis, but let me just say, that its been a view that has been rather common in most of Western Civilization for about 1500 years, and hasn't changed recently.

[SPKrazy]

158. Who Sounds Elitist? You Call Them "Rednecks"

I'm from one of those smaller states

I'm not a redneck

and most of the population here isn't "redneck" either (except by standards of "Yankee elitists")

Arkansas

[jody]

160. My point exactly, "isn't 'redneck' either (except by standards of 'Yankee

elitists')" :thumbsup:

:hi:

[sendero]

22. Compared to ANY of the 50 songs on that..

... ridiculous list that came out a couple weeks ago (National Review?) - it is.

You can argue about the subtleties of the lyrics all day, 99% of the people hearing the song don't get the subtleties.

[tenshi816]

112. I saw the Who in concert last Sunday

and thought about that ridiculous list when they played "Won't Get Fooled Again", and wondered if Pete Townshend knows the song is on it (wasn't it No. 1 on the list?). I doubt he'd be impressed to know that some rightwing American publication believes it's an ode to conservatism.

Edited because I posted before I finished.

[Carni]

125. What?!?!?

How the hell anyone could think lyrics to ANY of the songs by The Who were conservative is a total mystery...

Geez, using their logic... maybe Bowie really wrote panic in Detroit in support of Richard Nixon lol

[tenshi816]

146. Oh yeah, here's a link

to the list: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzZkNDU5MmViNzVjNzkzMDE3NzNlN2MyZjRjYTk4YjE=

It's good for a laugh because it's a wish list compiled by a Republican who wishes most of these artists shared his conservative views (and note that the interpretation of the various songs as "conservative" was decided by the NRO, not the artists themselves). The list wasn't voted on by the NRO readership. I doubt most of them listen to much music, let alone the lyrics of what little they do listen to.

Oh, and here's Pete Townshend from last Sunday night - it was a bit chilly so he had his head covered up:



Edited because I forgot something.

[Carni]

170. OMG NO THEY DIDN'T...what are those fools smoking?!?!?!

OK -- this has to be the topper of all toppers WTF?

<i>25. “The Battle of Evermore,” by Led Zeppelin. ; buy CD on Amazon.com
The lyrics are straight out of Robert Plant’s Middle Earth period — there are lines about “ring wraiths” and “magic runes” — but for a song released in 1971, it’s hard to miss the Cold War metaphor: “The tyrant’s face is red.”</i>

What a bunch of idiots! LOL!

From what I have always heard...the song is based on Lord of the Rings and Zeppelin's fascination with Celtic mythology.

Additionally the symbols on Zeppelin 4 were 2 runes and 2 sigals (not exactly Christian Conservative type material)

What planet do these morons dwell on?

[goodhue]

28. But it is pro-George Wallace and pro-Nixon . . .

Watergate does not bother me, and the governor true!

[BillZBubb]

38. You misunderstand.

In Birmingham we've got the governor -- ie racist Wallace is the governor of Alabama.
Now, we've all done what we could do -- ie we've tried to get someone better.
Watergate doesn't bother me -- ie you can't blame me, or Alabama for Nixon, America elected HIM. It's not on my conscience.
Does your conscience bother you? -- Nixon is in the White House because Americans elected him. Therefore, if you
comdemn all Alabamians for Wallace, you condemn yourself as an American for Nixon.

What they are saying is don't paint us all with the same brush.

[Syrinx]

48. thanks

For a very good explanation.

[goodhue]

61. Yes, I'm familiar with this interpretation

But for me it doesn't trump the plain meaning of the text. Perhaps I'm overly obtuse.

[Monk06]

63. You make a good point, I remember when SHA first came out...

I read it the same way you did. Young Southern
Musicians couldn't break into R&R because of the
red neck wall.

Lynard Skynard weren't taking their cues from
Earl Scruggs, Loretta Lynn and the Grand Ole
Oprey crowd.

They wanted to join the party. As you say, "accept
me for what I am not what you think I am."

I think it was the Allman Brothers that opened up
Southern rock by going back to Blues Roots that
the Cream had reintroduced at Monterey in 1967.

Bottom line is this old so-called battle between
Neil Young and Lynard was boring twenty five years
ago. It's even less interesting now.

Furthermore as a Canadian I can't take Neil Young too
seriously. Politically he's a mile wide and an inch deep.

He devoted most of his career to trying to get into
Joni Mitchell's pants ........ much to her horror.

But that's another story.

[wildwww2]

115. The very next song on the album was "The ballad of Curtis Lowe"

A song that idolizes a black man who was a great influence to Ronnie Van Zant`s musical direction. I think he did that on purpose to show to people that "Sweet Home Alabama" was not a racist song that some narrow minded people would think it to be. It is a great album in my opinion. Every song on it is worth listening to still. And that album was recorded before Steve and Cassie Gaines joined the band and they really started to get good. I`m glad to see other people have interpreted that song the way I have. You are correct in my opinion.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[ComerPerro]

118. I belive its "in Brimingham they LOVE the governor"

[mitchum]

57. Are you willfully ignoring the "boo boo boo"?

[goodhue]

60. I hear it as a mocking wink, wink, nudge, nudge

If you know what I mean

[mitchum]

65. Well, how do you explain the very precise use of "they" and "we", then?

[mitchum]

66. And "Powderfinger" is a celebration of the slaughter of Native Americans..

Canadians killed Indians
Neil Young is a Canadian
so, of course, he is celebrating the genocide.

See, it's fun to play!

[AnOhioan]

148. Could as well be.....

"Oooh, Oooh, Oooh"

Your argument about Boo Boo Boo just seems a bit reaching

[mitchum]

166. The PRINTED lyrics read "boo boo boo" as do confirmation by...

some surviving members of the ORIGINAL LS. Also, you need to do a little research on the lyrical content of many of their other songs and the progressive activism of the original band.
Now, who's reaching?

[spacelady]

62. It is a song of the times, no more , no less. Very dated & yet very

catchy when used in the Forrest Gump movie. IMO should not be judged by today's standards ala "To Sir With Love."

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

30. I'm. So. Fucking. Confused. By. This. Post.

[Pendrench]

32. This is a discussion that pops up every once in awhile...

I tend to think that it is not a conservative song (there was another poster who used to chime in on this subject and he convinced me!) but I also wonder if this is more an issue of intention vs perception.

In other words, even though it might be the intention of the artist to write a song that isn't conservative, others might perceive it to be conservative - so then the question is which has more weight, the intention of the artist or the perception of the audience?

Another example of this would be Born in the USA by Bruce Springsteen...although Bruce didn't intend it to be "conservative" many consider it to be a conservative song.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

Tim

[lectrobyte]

44. Yeah, but if you listen to the lyrics to Born in the USA, then it's

obviously not a conservative song. I just don't see that with SHA, but I'd like to understand what other folks see in it that I'm perhaps missing. As the Drive By Truckers say, it was the soundtrack to my high school parking lot. But I was more Led Zep, Neil Young, Who, Tull fan, than most southern rock, except maybe the Outlaws. Green grass and high tides forever!

[mitchum]

58. Maybe that means that Van Zandt was a more subtle and clever...

lyricist than Sprinsteen? But...but...but...that can't be true! He was just an ignorant southerner and Bruce is from the enlightened north.
That would be like claiming that Faulkner was a better novelist than John O'Hara...ooops!

[lectrobyte]

64. I'm just not getting the clever and subtle. I liked Lynyrd Skynyrd, but

I'm not seeing the depth there, but again, maybe I'm missing something. It's not a north/south thing by any means, I've lived most of my life in Ga, Tn, Va, and now NC. I'd say that Faulkner is way better than O'Hara any day of the week, too.

[greyl]

49. The intention of the artist must have more weight. nt

[mdmc]

33. so do I

And anti Neal Young too

[ripple]

34. It's a pro-redneck song

Not a pro-conservative song. There is a huge difference.

[Syrinx]

74. It depends on what "redneck" means n/t

[lectrobyte]

35. The sky's are so blue and the governor's true.

I guess I am missing the humor and irony, too. As I suspect 99% of their fans do as well.

[tularetom]

36. Gee do ya think all them album covers

with the confederate flags on 'em have anything to do with that perception. I've heard all the rationalizations about the feud with Young and how it was just a put on but I gotta tell you I've been in bars when that song starts playing and I wouldn't want to be a black guy in there.

[Appalachian_American]

39. Ruben Studdard sang it on American Idol, if I'm not mistaken.

[jdlh8894]

40. What Confederate Flag?

Not to start a flame, but that is a Battle Flag-not the Flag of the Confederacy!

[tularetom]

42. Call it what you will

but to the guys I'm talking about it meant "I hate blacks".

[Bridget Burke]

150. Maybe you need to get some new friends n/t

[SlavesandBulldozers]

102. that's like explaining the difference between lynching and hanging.

i mean really, wtf?

[fishwax]

130. the battle flag of what?

um, the confederacy? :shrug::)

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[SlavesandBulldozers]

101. this is my favorite post in the thread.

so true.

[fishwax]

133. except that the original LS never had the confederate flag on their covers

that I know of, anyway.

[fishwax]

132. which albums had confederate flags on them?

I don't think any of the albums of the original lynyrd skynyrd had confederate flags featured. I could be wrong, though. If you know different, I'd be interested.

The first album with the confederate flag was "southern by the grace of god," a live album from the LS "tribute tour," which came out more than ten years after the plane crash that wiped out the heart of the band. I'm not a huge LS fan, but I do like some of the original stuff. The band as it is in its current incarnation is a sham, and has some BS right-wing hyper/faux patriotic songs, but that's not really any reflection on the politics of the original band, any more than neil young's support of reagan or the patriotic act make CSNY a conservative group.

[Gold Metal Flake]

41. Here is a whole page on it.

http://www.thrasherswheat.org/jammin/lynyrd.htm

[peacebaby3]

43. Lynard Skynard supported Jimmy Carter in the 1976 election and played at

least one time on a campaign fundraiser.

[Ripley]

46. Hey

Idiots be all around us..

[jdlh8894]

50. That's what makes life FUN! n/t

[Syrinx]

78. hey Ripley!

Sorry, I didn't see you earlier. Don't want you to think I was ignoring you. :hi:

[mitchum]

51. Apparently, he not only LOOKS like Matthew Perry with Down Syndrome...

[Strawman]

69. It's not at all, but it has been appropriated by conservatives

Just like they tried to do with Born in the USA. Funny thing about music, once you release it to the public, they can often turn it into whatever they want it to mean.

The Drive By Truckers post was great, btw. They're my authority on this subject. Love the Truckers.

[Syrinx]

79. thanks for the kind words

I share your admiration for the Truckers! :hi:

[Carni]

129. I think that is exactly what happens...

I always perceived Born in the USA as a deragatory commentary on the crap that our government puts us through...but after 911 I heard it used and championed by some right wingers as a pro Bush song (I didn't quite get that)

I guess sometimes these bands end up with fans who hear what they want to hear regardless of which side of the aisle they are on.

Remember when Nirvana came out with the song featuring the lyrics below because they apparently had some really right winged fans that annoyed Kurt Cobain:

Sell the kids for food
Weather changes moods
Spring is here again
Reproductive glands

He's the one who likes all our pretty songs
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun
But he knows not what it means
Knows not what it means and i say...
He's the one who likes all our pretty songs
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun
But he knows not what it means
Knows not what it means and i say yeah...

We can have some more
Nature is a whore
Bruises on the fruit
Tender age in bloom

I guess it's the same principle with LS and SHA...I was just too young to catch the irony at the time.

[BuyingThyme]

70. I don't speak for him, but Warren Zevon had a different take on it:

Warren Zevon
"Play It All Night Long"

Grandpa pissed his pants again
He don't give a damn
Brother Billy has both guns drawn
He ain't been right since Viet Nam
"Sweet Home Alabama"
Play that dead band's song
Turn those speakers up full blast
Play it all night long
Daddy's doing Sister Sally
Grandma's dying of cancer now
The cattle all have brucellosis
We'll get through somehow
"Sweet Home Alabama"
Play that dead band's song
Turn those speakers up full blast
Play it all night long
I'm going down to the Dew Drop Inn
See if I can drink enough
There ain't much to country living
Sweat, piss, jizz and blood
"Sweet Home Alabama"
Play that dead band's song
Turn those speakers up full blast
Play it all night long

Thanks Warren.

[maxrandb]

117. God I "blanking" miss Warren Zevon

Only one more sarcastic, and with an equally caustic wit is Pete.

Love "The French Inhaler"

"Tell me how you're gonna make your way in the world woman
when you weren't cut out for working. With your fingers so slender and frail.
How you gonna get around, in this sleazy bedroom town
if you don't put yourself up for sale?
Where will you go,
with your scarves and your miracles
Who's gonna know who you are?
Drugs and wine and flattering light,
You must try again until you get it right
Baby you'll end up with someone different every night

Oh this people
with no home to go home to
they'll all like to spend the night with you
baby I would too

Tell me how you're gonna make your way in this world woman
when you weren't cut out for working,
and you just can't concentrate
and you always show up late

You said you were an actress, yes I believe you are
I thought you'd be a star,
so I drank up all the money
yes, I drank up all the money, with these phonies in this Hollywood bar
These friends of mine in this Hollywood bar

Lonliness and frustration, we both came down with an acute case
When the lights came up at two
I caught a clear glimpse of you
and your face looked like something death brought with him in his suitcase
Your pretty face
looked so wasted
Another pretty face
devastated.

The French Inhaler
He stamped and mailed her
So long Norman
She said, so long Norman

[Nikki Stone 1]

71. It has a conservative number of notes and chords. Very economical.

:)

[mitchum]

95. Excellent!

well done :)

[HEyHEY]

75. It was written to tell Neil Young to fuck off.

[Syrinx]

77. kind of, partially

But even Neil Young said that it was a better song than either "Alabama" or "Southern Man."

[mitchum]

96. And there's nothing wrong with that!

I value the genius of Neil's amplifier tech far more than I do of that Reagan supporting slob

[theboss]

173. How could Ronny Van Zandt be a Reagan supporter?

He died in 1977.

[mitchum]

182. You misread: Neil Young WAS the Reagan supporting slob...

and that's a fact.
Sorry if I wasn't clear

[RebelOne]

81. Conservative or not, I love that song. n/t

[bunkerbuster1]

84. Why does KFC use it in its commercials?

That, to me, is a far more compelling issue of late.

As for whether SHA is especially "conservative," I think the song is deliberately ambiguous about some things. Isn't it enough to understand that songwriters are sometimes conflicted about the issues they cover and it's reflected in their lyrics?

[noonwitch]

86. I was wondering about that, too.

I know Col. Sanders/KFC was originally started in Corbin, KY-One of those things I learned from The Food Network. Wouldn't a jazzed up version of "My Old Kentucky Home" be more appropriate?

[last_texas_dem]

110. Yeah

And I think it's also funny that a band from Florida (Lynyrd Skynyrd) did a tribute to their "home" Alabama. Then again, some of them may be from Alabama originally and I'm just not aware. It still seems kinda funny to me, though.

[Red Right and BLUE]

87. I was going to ask about that.

It drives me up the wall. I have a sort of love/hate relationship with that song. I don't want to hear it being all scratched up like there's a KFC-sponsored rave in my mouth and LS is invited. Just drives me nuts for some reason.

[teknomanzer]

100. I always thought it was a catchy song...

Then I listened to the lyrics my interpretation at that time totally turned me against LS... even though I had to admit they were damned talented... I mean Free Bird what a great song that was.

But now thanks to this thread I think I have a new understanding of the tune. It really is just telling Neil Young to piss off all tongue in cheek like. It makes me feel a whole lot better about LS because I liked the music but I thought they were potentially racist... (and some of their fans were of that ilk) I can finally listen to Free Bird in peace and tap my foot to SHA guilt free.

Oh and to keep on topic. Scarborough is a partisan idealogue and possibly an idiot. What the hell does he know. Southern man don't need Joe around anyhow.

[Syrinx]

109. Ha!

Sometimes Joe seems slightly reasonable. Especially when he says "Roll Tide" on his show. :)

But other times, he seems like a complete moron. Like a freeper or something. Well, not that bad...

[Carni]

131. Yep Tekno....that was exactly what happened to me

I remember seeing the LS movie at *the midnight movies* and then later when I took a gander at the SHA lyrics I just read them at face value and thought *UG* and basically never listened to the band again.

This thread has been very interesting... although it is making me feel REALLY OLD!

[jarrodf]

104. Let the Repubs have Skynryd, I'll take Bruce any day

[Syrinx]

108. I'll take both, if you don't mind

Of course LS really died in that plane crash over thirty years ago. RVS was the heart and soul of that great band.

[mitchum]

168. Well, if you prefer "West Side Story" to Faulkner, I guess you would...

:)
Not a complete slam on Bruce ("Nebraska" is a brilliant album)
However, LS even beat Bruce to the punch by several years concerning the plight of the Vietnam vet. Their "Four Walls of Raiford" predates any of Springsteen's takes on the subject.

Food for thought: why does Bruce talk with a southern accent?

[treestar]

105. It was a hit in the late 70s

When it was possible for people to get a little irony, I guess.

It's hard to imagine any rock star of the late 70s as "conservative."

The freepers are just dreaming if they really think anything from any rock band of that era favors their current crap.

They take it all literally. They probably think "Born is the USA" is for them, too.

Talked to one who thinks "What's Love Got to Do with It" is meant to uphold the idea of casual sex. They just don't get irony. Or pretend not to.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

114. "When it was possible for people to get a little irony, I guess."

:rofl:

:thumbsup:

[fishwax]

143. they think "I fought the law" is a tribute to law and order and that

"keep your hands to yourself" by the georgia sattelites is about reaffirming old-fashioned sexual mores.

No shit, check it out: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzZkNDU5MmViNzVjNzkzMDE3NzNlN2MyZjRjYTk4YjE=

:rofl:

[treestar]

151. Sheesh now that list had me ROTFL

Yeah, right, I am sure the Clash intended to be "conservative."

LOL, that list has to be an ironic joke or the freepers are hopeless!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

113. It's amazing how so many DUers miss the irony in the lyrics.

"In Birmingham they love the gov'na--boo, boo, boo."

Please don't tell me that liberals, too, are buying into this bullshit that Lynyrd Skynyrd, who were pro-Carter in '76 and played for him at a campaign stop or two, were FReeps.

:eyes:

[Carni]

119. I think he's right

I don't recall the details but at one point in time Lynrd Skynrd (Sp?) was fighting back and forth with Neil Young (recall the lyrics "and I hope Neil Young will remember southern man don't need him around anyhow")

To my knowledge LS was never a band that had anti war sentiments and I always thought they were right winged as hell (JMO)

[Bridget Burke]

153. If you want to know the details, read the thread!

Lynyrd Skynyrd began to get successful as the war in Vietnam was winding down.

Why, exactly, did you think they were "right winged as hell"?

[Marr]

126. I think we see the same sentiment expressed in the lyrics here on DU

all the time.

From southern DUers. Someone will start criticizing the south in general for being some kind of conservative idiot warehouse, or the cause of all our problems, or somesuch- and a liberal southerner will respond saying they 'did all they could do' but still lost the local election, or whatever.

Considering we've got guys like Peter King in New York, Joe Lieberman in Connecticut, etc., etc.- I understand where they're coming from. Don't lump them all into the same group with their representatives and their asshole supporters. I wouldn't want people assuming that all Californians are of the mind as that idiot Schwarzeneggar.

Anyway, that's how I interpret it- but it's a pretty damned nuanced point. I'm not surprised that so many people have a different interpretation.

[treestar]

152. I went to college in the south in the late 70s

And I tend to agree - at that point it was sensitivity at Yankees looking down on them. Even LS using the confederate flag would have been meant, in those comparatively innocent days, just to signify the region. There's no way any rock star of that era would identify with anything racist. Just no way. Hell, most of them are probably libruls even today.

[Bridget Burke]

154. The only LS albums I've seen with the Confederate Battle Flag....

Were issued by the post-crash band.

[LostinVA]

127. I think so, too n/t

[northzax]

139. it's obviously a conservative song

just like 'Born in the USA'. duh.

[Radical Activist]

159. What does he think about Saturday Night Special?

Go ahead and try to misinterpret that one, jackass...

Hand guns are made for killin',
they ain't no good for nothin' else.
And if you like to drink your whiskey
you might even shoot yourself.
So why don't we dump 'em people
to the bottom of the sea
before some ol' fool come around here,
wanna shoot either you or me.
It's the Saturday night special
you got a barrel that's blue and cold
you ain't good for nothin
but put a man six feet in a hole
It's the saturday night special
and I'd like to tell you what you could do with it

[BlueManDude]

161. Has he heard "Saturday Night Special"?

Handgun was made for killin' - ain't no good for nothing else...

So why don't we dump 'em people - to the bottom of the sea...

[RagingInMiami]

163. Or "Things Goin' On"

Have you ever lived down in the ghetto
Have you ever felt the cold wind blow
If you don't know what I mean
Won't you stand up and scream
'Cause there's things goin' on that you don't know

Ask them why they spend lives across the ocean
Ask them why they spend millions on the moon
Well, untill they make things right
Lots of people gonna be uptight
They better make some changes pretty soon

They gonna ruin the air that we breathe y'all
They gonna ruin us all bye and bye
Telling all you beware
I don't think they really care
Think they just sit up there and just get high

Have you ever lived down in the ghetto
Have you ever felt the cold wind blow
If you don't know what I mean
Won't you stand up and scream
'Cause there's things goin' on that you don't know

[RagingInMiami]

162. A few months ago, I sent Mike Malloy an e-mail about this matter

When he bashed Lynyrd Skynyrd on the air. He ended up reading my e-mail on the air, then saying, "I stand corrected."

To all those who think Lynyrd Skynyrd was a right-wing racist band, please click on the link below to read the e-mail I sent Malloy.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/RagingInMiami/21

[Syrinx]

164. thank you so much

Your comments were spot-on!

I'm going to Ben Burch's fine site and download that show. I want to hear Mike eat those specific comments. I'm a big fan of Mike, and listen to him often, even though I have to listen on the internet, and I have only dialup.

I love it when he reams Bush and his pals, but I think he often is as guilty of using unfair generalizations of certain groups, such as southerners, as certain DU'ers are. Or as racists are.

I don't know if internet listenership is considered in ratings, but when he goes into a rant against "the south," I just click Realplayer off and look at porn or something. :)

Thanks again! (BTW, do you remember what part of the show your letter was read?)

[RagingInMiami]

165. Yes, he read it towards the end of the show

I think it may have been around 12:10 pm or so. I don't think it was earlier than that.

It was really brilliant because then Kathy, his wife, started playing several LS songs until the end of the show. She is from the South so she had agreed with what I had said.

And now, I've noticed, they frequently play LS songs.

Let me know if you're able to find it.

[Syrinx]

177. I found it

And I enjoyed listening to it. Way to go RagingInMiami!

I downloaded a 31 MB clip (on dialup) just to listen to Malloy read your letter! And I don't regret it at all. :)

If you want, I could slice that section out and email it to you.

Or if you want the whole show, you can find it on Ben Burch's site here.

Anyway, thanks again for letting me know about it! :hi:

[RagingInMiami]

178. If you can slice it, that would be great

I've been wanting to do that for the longest time, it just that I have no idea how. I did listen to that segment a few times on Ben Burch's site the following day, cause I thought it was damn cool. I was very flattered over the whole thing.

Especially when they started playing the LS music. And still playing it when they came back from the commercial break.

I will PM you my e-mail address.

[truebrit71]

167. It is. Or haven't you heard the lyrics?

It's VERY freeperish...

[mitchum]

169. And the Who were jingoistic raging Tories because of their use...

of the Union Jack?
Sure...whatever...

[theboss]

171. It's a conservative song, but it's not Pro-Nixon

If anything, Skynyrd is telling the North that Nixon is your problem, not ours.

"Watergate does not bother me/Does your conscience bother you?"

But it is definitely a response to "Southern Man" which was a pretty ugly vision of the South.

[tom_paine]

172. Sorry Syrinx...Scarborough is 100% correct

What is it about even broken watches being right sometimes?

Yep. The reasons have all been addressed above quite well, but you are wrong, Syrinx. Scarborough IS an idiot, likely murderer, and an enabler of national evil...but not because of this.

[Syrinx]

181. Sorry tom_paine, but you are wrong

I was a little kid when this song was new. I understood it then. I'm surprised so many adults can't even understand it now some thirty years later.

[theboss]

174. This debate is actually "How responsible is an artist for their audience?"

You can walk into any bar in this country (particularly the South) and ask any number of men what they think of Sknynrd. The most commons answer will probably be "They fuckin' rock, man! That's real music."

Whatever Sweet Home Alabama is or isn't, it's immensely popular. That means that many many people will deal with it and interpret it differently. And there is probably no right or wrong interpretation.

Most people in 1985 heard "Born in the USA" and thought it was a Pro-American anthem. And that't their right. And in a way, they are correct. Most great art is ambiguous.

There's a reason that 40 years later, most people still don't know what the hell Dylan was singing about on Blonde on Blonde.

[chaska]

175. Some points and observations not yet offered...

My first band did a lot of Skynyrd. I liked 'em.

Later, after the plane crash as I perhaps incorrectly recall it, Southern rednecks adopted Skynyrd. I came to despise Skynyrd for that reason alone. (Oh, BTW, I'm from S. Carolina.)

I was not your typical Southerner, having pretty liberal leanings even at that tender age. I didn't sing back then, I didn't know or care about the lyrics. I condemned Skynyrd because of their fan base. It took me a long time to get to where I could admit that that is a fun song to play, it's a great riff. And Ed King's guitar solo and fills (Ed is from CA I believe) are some of the best classic rock has to offer. And what a tone! Pardon my musician oriented digression.

Anywho, I believe I have read from band members that the song was not intended to be a conservative anthem or any such thing.

The flag: As far as I know the CSA battle flag was first used by the Allman Brothers, at least among bands associated with the South. I may be wrong (I doubt it) but I don't think the Allmans could be considered racist by any measure. They had black members then and still do. Clearly, it was either a regional pride symbol or a sign of rebellion. I'm siding with the former, though both is probably the best answer. Other bands picked up the flag from the Allmans, my own included. While unfortunately, I can't say that our drummer was particularly enlightened, the rest of my band had a lot of respect for black musicians on the world stage and good relationships with the black musicians we played with in various local contexts.

I later came to see the flag in a larger, societal context and began to fight against it. It was at the time flying atop our statehouse. I protested for many years to bring that flag down, and eventually, through my efforts alone I'm sure, it did finally (we hope) come down.

Much to my chagrin, I have observed that many of my generation that were liberal then have come to embrace the darkside.

...which is why I left the South and don't really see myself returning.

....which is not to say that there aren't liberals living there I still have a couple of friends there that are very liberal (glutons for punishment?). In fact, Mitchum, whom I've not met, and I share a friend (though not in the biblical sense) in SC. Small world, huh?

...which is not to say that those same idiot conservatives that overpopulate the South aren't here in CA in every bit as great a number and with just as low an IQ. The same can be said for all of the Western states that I've been to (most of them), and probably a great many other states as well.

Edit: Carter was supported by Southerners because he was from the South, not because he was a Dem. And remember the South was still in transition from Dem to Pug. Southerners didn't change, only the labels did. The terms Democrat and Republican weren't as clearly defined as they were before and are now. It meant more that Carter was a Southerner. But that is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[chaska]

176. Did I go and kill another'n?

[Syrinx]

180. Nah!

I think it's just dying a natural death! :)