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Just visited "crooksandliars.com", brought me to tears.

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yy4me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 03:44 PM
Original message
Just visited "crooksandliars.com", brought me to tears.
Click on the video of Bruce Springsteen, Seeger Sessions. Somehow just hearing him sing "Bring them Home" brought me back to the days of Viet Nam. I cried then watching Walter Cronkite give the nightly news reports of the daily dead. We are right back there now...but worse. Now we have a government that is in a war for corporate gain. I don't remember that as a component of Viet Nam. It was a horror then just as this mess is a horror now. Dead Americans are no less dead. This war or that one, we had no excuse then, none now. Bring them home!
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lindisfarne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Go down to June 23 and watch the CNN interview with Springsteen, too.n/t
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Unfortunately, bringing them home won't stop the madness...
Many people have paid the price of US arrogance with their lives and those of their loved ones.

One can only hope they are not a vengeful lot.
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rusty charly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. from the musical of "Two Gentlemen of Verona"
BRING ALL THE BOYS BACK HOME

DUKE
WHEN I GOT INTO OFFICE
THERE WAS TOO MUCH PEACE
I SAID IT LEADS TO TROUBLE
ALL THIS PEACE
SINCE I’VE BEEN ELECTED
I PUT TROOPS FROM HERE TO ROME
AND IF I’M RE-ELECTED
I’LL BRING ALL THE BOYS BACK HOME

ENSEMBLE DUKE & SMALL GROUP
BRING EM HOME BRING ‘EM HOME
BRING EM HOME BRING ‘EM HOME

ALL
BRING ALL THE BOYS BACK HOME



1-27

DUKE
I’LL SEND OUR BOYS TO WAR FARE
TO SAVE OUR WHO – KNOWS – WHAT
TO PROTECT OUR HEY – WHO – DERE
AND DEFEND OUR HEY – WHAT – NOT
IF I’M RE-ELECTED
WHERE E’ER OUR TROOPS MAY ROAM
IF I’M RE-SELECTED
I’LL BRING ALL THE BOYS BACK HOME

ENSEMBLE DUKE & SMALL GROUP
BRING EM HOME BRING ‘EM HOME
BRING EM HOME BRING ‘EM HOME

ALL
BRING ALL THE BOYS BACK HOME

DUKE
IF WE DIDN’T HAVE A WAR
THEN WHERE
WOULD WE SPEND OUR MONEY
WHERE
WELFARE, CLEAN AIR, CHILD CARE

ENSEMBLE & DUKE
CLEAN AIR ONLY MAKES YOU WHEEZE
WELFARE KEEPS YOU ON YOUR KNEES

DUKE
I’LL RAISE THE TAX
WE SHOULD ADORE
THE FACT WE CAN
AFFORD A WAR

THE BOYS ALL GET IN TROUBLE
SPUNKY LITTLE CHAPS
I’LL TEACH THE LITTLE CHILDREN
THEIR FAVORITE SONG IS TAPS

(THURIO commands the ENSEMBLE
in close order drill)

THURIO
Company fall in. First squad left. Third squad right.
Face forward march.

ENSEMBLE DUKE & SMALL GROUP
BRING EM HOME BRING ‘EM HOME
BRING EM HOME BRING ‘EM HOME

ALL
BRING ALL THE BOYS BACK HOME



1-28

DUKE THURIO (THE DRILL SERGEANT)
YOU SHOULD BE PROUD Second squad to the rear march
AND FEEL ALL WARM to the rear march
A SHROUD’S to the rear march
A LOVELY UNIFORM to the left flank march
to the right flank march

WHO’S THAT BOY First squad right flank march
HE SMOKED A JOINT (To a MAN)
SEND HIM OFF give me ten
AT RIFLE POINT give me ten “Push-Ups”
Second squad left flank march
WHAT’S THAT SIGN
SAYS ME AND GRAFT
PUT THAT GUY
INTO THE DRAFT

I’M PATRIOTIC
TO A MAN
TO GOD, AND COUNTRY
AND MILAN

DUKE & SMALL GROUP ENSEMBLE
BRING EM BACK BRING EM BACK
BRING EM BACK BRING EM BACK
BRING ALL THE BOYS BACK
BRING ALL THE BOYS BACK

DUKE
I sent em over and I can bring em back. Re-elect me!

ENSEMBLE
Yea!

DUKE
Re-elect me

ENSEMBLE
Yea!

DUKE
Re-elect me!

DUKE & ENSEMBLE
AND I’LL BRING ALL THE BOYS BACK HOME!!
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. This admin
Edited on Sun Jun-25-06 04:48 PM by 90-percent
The damage this admin has done to the USA will take 50 years to fix.

Plus the collective drive for all of us to clean up the mess.

Part of the damage includes international prestige, credibility, the horrendous national debt and the transformation of the constitution into "just a piece of paper"

If all of america knew what was happening to their constitution, there would be a violent overthrow of this administration!

-85% Jimmy

edit: spelung
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. "Now we have a government that is in a war for corporate gain. "
"I don't remember that as a component of Viet Nam."

Not to be contrary, but it was precisely that.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Well, you're right, Nathan Hale! The war profiteering wasn't quite as
personally filthy as it is with this one. People would have been appalled at no-bid contracts for the V-P's buds at Halliburton, and billions 'disappeared' in the war zone. People would be in jail for it. Cheney would be long gone. But the truth of the matter is that the Vietnam War was manufactured by the military-industrial complex, which had never been demobilized, as it should have been, at the end of WW II. Our economy was kept on a war footing UNNECESSARILY. Vietnam would have been--wanted to be!--our ally against Communist China. They were afraid of China, and had been fighting off invasion by China for 5,000 years. Yeah, the people of Vietnam wanted Ho Chi Minh as their president, and it would have meant a communist government, but it would have been a FRIENDLY government. Ho Chi Minh wrote letters to Eisenhower quoting Thomas Jefferson and the Declaration of Independence. They had just thrown out the French colonialists and they thought we would approve of self-determination--just as we had insisted upon, from King George.

God, what a tragedy that was! Eisenhower disallowed free elections in Vietnam (one of his worst errors), and the die was cast. Kennedy ultimately tried to stop it (as he had stopped the invasion of Cuba), by executive order. He was assassinated (I am convinced now because he was a peacemaker--as were the other two victims of assassination in that era--his brother, RFK, and ML King). And LBJ totally gave in to military/corporate liars who said Vietnam was a threat, and I believe that LBJ did it mostly for ECONOMIC reasons. The economy was so dependent on military expenditure by then--with all the WW II corporate contractors having geared up, rather than down, during the Korean War (a somewhat more justifiable war, with UN backing), and all of them lobbying for long term porkbarrel welfare--an albatross on the American people that we are living with to this day.

The argument against communism--the infamous "Domino Theory" (that, if one country in Asia "fell" to communism, they all would)--was mostly a contrived bit of nonsense, created to foment hatred of anti-capitalist countries (and all "socialist" ideas), and to justify a permanent, huge military budget. By the end of his term of office, Eisenhower had begun to see how it worked, and he warned the American people against "the military-industrial complex"--especially as to military contractor lobbying--but it was too late. These forces and their allies in the secret government (CIA et al) were too powerful by then. They tried to strongarm JFK on Cuba and on Vietnam. He resisted. They offed him, and got what they wanted in Johnson, a gungho military spender.

I don't think Johnson was personally corrupt, like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and this lot of fascists--and I don't think he would have tolerated their magnitude or type of corruption. I've been listening to the LBJ tapes from that era (his phone calls with various people) on C-SPAN radio for a while now, and what I perceive is real wheeler-dealer, with an intimate knowledge of Congress and the details of government, and a sort of schizophrenic belief in democracy and lawfulness, on the one hand (evident in many different ways), and a real manipulator, on the other (but merely a manipulator--a master manipulator--not a Hitler). His phone calls just after the murder of the three civil rights workers in Mississippi are very interesting in this respect. 1964. He wheels and he deals and he twists arms and jawbones--senators, congressmen, governors, cabinet, press, FBI Director J Edgar Hoover, local law enforcement, nat'l guard and military forces--to bring law and order to Mississippi, to STOP the killings and protect the civil rights workers, without having to take over the government of the state. He is brilliant. I don't know what might have been going on in the background (off the phone)--for instance, I know that civil rights workers were not entirely trustful of the FBI (because I was one of them--a civil rights worker), and Hoover was spying on ML King--but he was nevertheless brilliant in manipulating all these levers of power to get something good done--to find the bodies of the dead civil rights workers, to catch the perpetrators and to establish some kind of decent order in Mississippi. He also pushed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 through Congress, in direct opposition to the wishes of his fellow southern politicians.

This is the same man who, in OTHER conversations, was contriving to escalate the war in Vietnam--where, ultimately some 2 million people would be slaughtered (in Vietnam and Southeast Asia), because of his actions. I think that, like Bush, he thought it would be a cakewalk. He would satisfy the military-industrial lobbyists (and their corrupt congressional advocates) and give them their big budgets, but I doubt he expected the difficulty of it, or the carnage. The Vietnamese, defending their country--poor brown people in sandals and straw hats, with very limited equipment and almost no air force--foiled him, completely. And foiled Nixon (who got elected by promising "peace with honor" but didn't mean either). The Iraqis are similar, to the extent that they are defending their country's self-determination (and not just engaging in religious war). But the presidential motivations are quite different. Bush, Cheney and their entire cabal have a personal interest in the oil cartel. Cheney has a personal interest in high military expenditures to his own company. He is a war profiteer himself. Johnson may have understood war profiteers, and wheeled and dealed with them--but he wasn't ONE OF THEM. He had some sense of being President of the United States--of really being President, of all of the people. And U.S. corporations have become global corporate predators--who now run our news media, our Congress and our President. There was some sense, back then in the '60s, of the good of the nation, of the common interests of the majority. While Johnson was conducting his war, he was pouring resources into anti-poverty programs, and bucking his own southern establishment on civil rights. He was a torn man. He had a conscience. And when Americans rejected his war, he stepped down (didn't run for a second term). Not so Bush. The war profiteering and dominating Mideast oil take total precedence over the good of the nation. There is no such things as "the good of the nation" to the Bush junta. There is only the good of Chevron and Halliburton. They are total thieves and criminals. They have no conscience. They have no patriotism.

I don't want to defend Johnson too far here. He (and Nixon) slaughtered a lot more innocent people than Bush has, so far. I guess what I'm saying is that there is a CONTINUUM of war profiteering, that started after WW II, and has escalated and solidified over the years, since then--to the point that there is really no more control by the sovereigns of this land, the American people. Back then, when we protested the war, it was headlines; it brought down a President. Now, when we protest the war, we put far MORE people on the streets than we ever did back then, and...nothing. Deaf ears. They don't give a damn that 70% of the American people oppose this war.

The reason is out-of-control war profiteering--not, as with Johnson, to continue the WW II economy "for the good of the nation"--but for its own sake, the nation be damned. A $10 trillion deficit? Who cares?

And the method is corporate-controlled electronic voting, run on "trade secret," proprietary programming code (a coup of the Anthrax Congress and its biggest crooks, Tom Delay and Bob Ney).

Non-transparent elections = endless war. That's the formula.

Back then, Presidents still had to run for office. Now they don't. They get "selected" by rightwing corporations who "count" all the votes under a veil of secrecy.

All war profiteering all the time. That's what we've got--with no hope of change, until we smarten up and get rid of these Bushite-controlled voting machines, which is still a doable thing (at the state/local level where decisions on voting systems are still made).

If we can RESTORE our right to vote, we will still have a mountain of problems. For one thing, the military budget should have been busted down long ago, about 90%, to a true defensive posture. And there are a number of global corporate predators that need to get busted, and their assets seized for the public good. That's how we pay for the recovery. (The Corporate Dems--Pelosi--are ALREADY talking about a "balanced budget." Har-har. Put it all on the backs of the poor! No way! We need government spending to recover from this looting binge. And who better to provide it than the looters themselves?) We also have to deal with the corporate news monopolies--who have been polluting OUR airwaves with unrelenting corporate and war propaganda.

But we can't get to any of this until we have TRANSPARENT, VERIFIABLE elections again. And if we DON'T achieve restoration of our right to vote, then we can expect to be looted down to our last dime and our last scrap of food. And we can expect a widened war in the Middle East, against our will, for the foreseeable future.
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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-26-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. A simple "Yes" would have sufficed.
Just kidding. It's clear that we are on the same page. I remember, while still in the Marine Corps in 1966, lamely arguing that very same domino theory. It was weak at the time and I felt it to be so, but it was an off-the-shelf justification for why we were there. Shortly after this, I got out and moved to Berkeley, CA and guess I saw the light of truth.

"Benjamin."
"Mr. Maguire."
"Benjamin."
"Mr. Maguire?"
"I've got one thing to say to you, Benjamin. Are you listening?"
"Yes, sir."
"Napalm."
"Excuse me?"
"Napalm."
"Just how do you mean that, sir?"
"There's a bright future in napalm, Benjamin. Just think about it."
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. Tune into Katie Couric this fall and have a really good cry.
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