I Have This Theory...

[DistressedAmerican]

That about once a generation, the American people forget that they are the bosses. Where they get so cynical about politics that they just begin to accept the corruption and lies as the natural order of things. During these times the greatest abuses of power take place. Often times this results in disasterous wars. Take Vietnam and Iraq for your recent examples.

The good news is that America has historically reacted to these abuses (sadly only after the fact) by enacting stricter controls on government power (for example F.I.S.A.) and by taking a far more critical eye of future military ventures.

Then it seems to start all over again, people forget what it was like last time. They begin to forget the cost to average Americans when politicians are allowed to run wild with their power. They begin to think of politics as some external force that they have little or no control over. They begin to reject our skepticism of elective warfare as some sort of "syndrome" as if wanting to avoid the tragic mistake again is a kind of mental illness.

When that happens we get Nixon's and Bush's.

Hopefully that swing back is soon coming.

Thoughts?

[rosesaylavee]

1. Maybe its our turn to

be the 'greatest generation' as Brokaw used to refer to the WW2 generation for all that they did for global freedom.

I think you are right. Its our turn to take a stand and get our country back on track. If not us, who will do it?

[annabanana]

2. You have a point.

Unfortunately, those who seek to abuse power don't forget from cycle to cycle, and they refine their methods.

During the Nixon abuses, it was clear that a free, competitive press was their downfall, and they have been working since then to neutralize it. Now they see that their foil is the free flow of information over the internet. If we manage to bring them down again (big if.. they are more nimble than they were), neutralizing the net's democratic tendencies will be their first priority.

The American public, on the other hand, seems incapable of holding a thought more than a few minutes.

[DistressedAmerican]

3. You Are Right.

the power abusers understand these dynamics and they are quick toact when the opportunity presents itself. Sadly, I think Clinton's lying certainly added to the kind of cynacism that breeds this. Our side is certainly not without blame.

And you are also right that they get better at it each go round. These folks are not stupid which makes them even more dangerous!

[CanSocDem]

5. Not to quibble.....

But, "Clinton's lying" should have been neutralized by the Democrats.

It is America's fear of sexuality that arises when there is the unlikely scenario of no 'other' threats....

You were born nasty, so you really have no right to a good life, you know.:sarcasm:
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[tnlefty]

6. PDRS Syndrome is what I call it: People Don't Remember Shit

Clinton's lying paled in comparision to the lying of Nixon, Reagan/Bush during Iran-Contra, and the current crop of crooks.

Seems to me at times that people see the lies uncovered and yet these criminals go unpunished instilling a 'why bother, I think I'll just tune it out' mentality. And this could contribute to PDRS, i.e., tuned out years ago and forgotten about.

[madokie]

10. can I ask a question bro' whats with the Clinton's lying thing

I only remember one lie and it was an inappropriate question at that, just wondering :shrug:
peace
:hi:

[DistressedAmerican]

12. Not really A topic For This Thread.

But, I believe he was guilty of both perjury and obstruction (crime that were argued by dems to not "rise to the level of impeachable offenses" - Bush perjury on the war).

People debate the semantics of the perjury charge. I think it quite obvious that getting a BJ if "sexual relations" unless you cling to the notion that she had sex with him but he did not have sex with her. He either should have "told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" or simply refuse to answer any questions. Instead he sent Dick Morris out to poll whether it was more politically damaging to admit the affiar or commit perjury and obstruction. HE got his answer and rolled the dice on the lie.

Sending Betty Curry to Monica's house to hide gifts that were under Congressional subpoena was a crime. May not be a verbal lie. But, it was blatantly dishonest and illegal. And that is not even geting into that sleazeball fixer Vernon Jordan and the wtness tampering he did.

Sending his entire staff out to spread the lie that he was not involved with her from the first days it broke was also massively dishonest, although not criminal.

IMO, the notion that you can't ask a president about an affair with an intern while he is being investigated for a pattern of sexual harassment is just plain silly. The courts ruled repeatedly that he had to answer the questions. Should have answered honestly or taken the fifth.

However, let's save that discussion for another day.

I do not want this thread to turn into a pile on over Clinton. It usually does if I criticize his actions in much any way around here.

However, let me say that I would have held him accountable as well. When we let any of them slide, they all benefit. Our failure to do so, left many in this country very turned off of democrats and bred even more cynicism.

[lonestarnot]

4. I keep hearing from various intelligent people that this swing will turn

around, but they all remark, "not in my lifetime." WTF!

[Poppyseedman]

7. Unfortunately, I disagree

An educated population was always the best defense against out of control governments, at least from an american historic perspective.

Our population has been so dumbed down for various reasons, I think we are beyond redemption.

Both sides of the different political voter blocks are so completely ignorant of history and political realities it's embarrassing. Both sides of the political spectrum buy into simplistic rhetoric like children snapping up free candy bars.

I'm sorry, but our party is so devoid of any real political leadership, it abysmal.

Partisan politics aside, Pelosi is a moron, Reid is feckless. Our other party leadership can't make a reasonable argument the people of this country can understand or give them a vision to believe in.

..........and I like our side. The rethugs are worse.

[RufusEarl]

8. You're on to something!

"Our party is so devoid of real political leadership" Ain't it the truth, take a look around and it's difficult to get ten democrats to agree who's the best candidate for 08.

Why so many opinions? Well as you said not one person in our party stands out among the pack. I had always hoped that JFK jr. would have lived, he had all the requirements imho anyway, to have been the next leader of our party.

But i agree, we need a champion and we need one fast. And i don't see one on the horizon, even though you'll find ten different dem's that will disagree with me.

Peace!

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

9. YOUR RIGHT, SO LETS GIVE THE VISION.

JUST PICK UP THE PHONE AND TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANT. SHOW THEM THE VISION. PASS THIS ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW. THOUSANDS OF CALLS COMING IN. TIE UP THE LINES. THIS IS AN OLD TACTIC BUT IT WORKS. DON'T USE E-MAIL. MAKE THE OFFICE STAFF ANSWER THE PHONES. THEY WILL RESPOND!

[Poppyseedman]

13. THEY WILL RESPOND

Oh' no they won't.
You want a vision? First, lets get our heads on straight.

1. Bush isn't running in 2006 or 2008. Stop focusing on him. Make him irrelevant by ignoring him. He will be gone Jan 20th 2009.
2. The majority of american people will not support a party that keeps telling them we are reliving Vietnam. Iraq is not Vietnam.
3. We are in Iraq, no matter how we got there. We aren't leaving at least until 2008, lets work together to get out ASAP without leaving Iraq in the hands of Jihadist terrorist. No matter how frame the argument, if we leave Iraq right now, we will condemn the Iraqi people to wholesale slaughter. The american people know this. We are a nation of winners.
4. The moment we pull out if we win the Congress in 2006, the media will blame the democratic party. Do we really want to be the political party who advocate losing in Iraq.
5. We were attacked on 9/11. It wasn't MIHOP or LIHOP. The radical fundamentalist Muslins do want to kill americans, they have for 20 years. No matter how nice we treat the rest of the world, it will not change their ideologies of hate
6. We are weak on national security. People will gladly give up their rights temporarily for security. We are too dense to figure that out. We need to recognize that fact and form policy around that concept
7. The democratic party has been pedaling the same tired ideas in different packages since LBJ. Their are no buyers or too few to win squat.

[Junkdrawer]

11. Unfortunately, killing the institutions of peaceful change...

was #1 on the RW agenda.

The media.

The counting of the vote.

The courts.

All bye bye.

That leaves continued obedience or violent change. Until the economic system completely collapses, the smart money's on continued obedience. And then it gets ugly. BTW: The Patriot Act (and similar legislation) and Executive domestic spying orders are all about anticipating that day.