The Rove War is ON

[sandnsea]

It's happening here, right now. Divisive threads are suddenly popping up on the drug war, of all things. When did that become a hot topic? Democrats are doomed, Democrats can't win, Democrats are divided.

The only thing thy want to do is to make sure you DO NOT BELIEVE IN YOURSELF. DO NOT BELIEVE IN YOUR AMERICA. That's their primary goal, to discourage you, to beat you down, to stifle your faith in your fellow man.

Don't let them do it, don't fall for these depressive threads. We're on the right path. 39 Democrats voted AGAINST stay the course, AGAINST permanent bases, AGAINST endless death and destructive. They did not vote for a date certain to get out, but they DID vote to get out and to start getting out NOW. They are FOR redeployment and refocusing our attention on Afghanistan. Don't be fooled by those who want to put everybody who doesn't yell "out now" into one big Bush warmongering pile. It wasn't true in 2004 and it's not true now.

We have Democrats fighting for minimum wage, alternate energy, making college affordable, enforcing our trade agreements, improved disaster preparedness and more. It's not true that we don't have a plan or are divided or in disarray. The only way that can ever be true is if YOU listen to the Rovian punditry instead of our own Dems. Don't fall for it again.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. You are correct.

And anyone who doesn't recognize what's going on...ain't looking.

[sheelz]

2. Enough About Division

A lot healthier than what is happening on the other side.
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?pid=94898

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. rove failed to destroy Social Security & will fail at this too

Pinning hopes on Iraq turning out alright between now and November is very unwise.

[AndyTiedye]

11. They're Counting on Diebold and their Control of the Media

They know that things won't get better in Iraq,
but Rove can make he newsdroids say things are better,
and as we can see, about 5% will believe it.

[me b zola]

43. "Rove can make he newsdroids say things are better..."

It seems as though he can make them say anything he wants. Listening to the news since the Kerry-Feingold vote, every story about the vote seems to have been written by rove. They are all working from the same cue-card and it all is a frame for the gop strategy.

[Hekate]

4. KnR. Amazing. From the Dems I hear we are unified and forging ahead...

From the MSM it's the same old talking points from Turdblossom, about how the Dems can't find our butts with both hands.

Who are you going to believe, folks? The man who spins like a Gulf hurricane and a Kansas tornado, or the people who are taking this country back state by state?

Hekate

[eleny]

5. I agree

We need to focus on what we want and not what some negative Nellie has to say. Not that we won't disagree from time to time. But the postings that say we "can't" are dead to me. :grr:

[maxfisher]

6. call me full hate , fatigue, whatever

after 9/11 all i heard was shit about how liberals hate America, NO!! we hate what you have done to America. We are for teachers, soldiers, eductaion, peace, the environment, health care. We are for the people, not credit card companies, fat ceos, war profiteering!!! ARGGGHHH! Fight BACK!!

[eleny]

13. And I refuse to nailbite when trolls post their negativity here

Save energy to do the fighting back!

[JDPriestly]

7. Actually, Republicans are more divided than Democrats.

The extreme right-wing religious types are anathema to middle of the road Republicans. Many Republicans don't hate gays, etc. Lots of Republicans agree with choice. Many people vote Republican strictly because they think Republicans mean lower taxes. They are all fools, but they don't agree on many, many issues. Democrats are far more united. We all believe in maximizing opportunity for every person We all believe in fair pay for our work. The list of things we agree on and the list of goals that unite us are much longer than the list of small issues on which we sometimes differ.

[AndyTiedye]

14. Doesn't Matter. They Still Vote For Them Every Time

[glitch]

55. or do they? with rampant election fraud we don't actually know nt

[AndyTiedye]

57. It has Become Harder than Ever to Pick Up Any Votes at All in Red Counties

The counties where the Repubs are in complete control have tended to
go Repub by unbelievably high margins in recent elections.

One can reasonably assume that most Dem votes in those counties go in the :hurts:

[glitch]

65. a lot of repubs felt their vote for kerry was switched 2004

easy group to steal from since assumed they'll vote party everytime. but do they? and how can they get moderates (non-thieving repukes, assuming they still exist) to win primaries?
so any errant repub vote would also go :hurts:
non-fascist repubs should be just as concerned about election fraud as dems, imo.

my point is we can't assume because they have a lock on the election system they have a majority of actual hearts and minds.

[JI7]

8. i'm really hating the Republicans more each day

i don't want to play the "no difference" "dems suck" shit again which will result in Republicans staying in office. and then disaster hits and we are left with the Republicans in power again who will refuse to help .

[aquart]

18. Lookee: a case in point.

[sandnsea]

20. Exactly

We are fighting for our future and future generations, not to prove we've got more lefty cred than the next guy. I don't want these assholes in power the next time disaster strikes and disasters in life are one thing that can be guaranteed.

[blue cat]

59. Me too!!!!

Sooner or later their hatefulness was going to come back on them. They questioned my religion and my patriotism, so now I hate them.

[Erika]

9. I'm with you completely

United we stand. I'd rather stand than fall.

[bleever]

10. "As Seen on TV: Democrats are doomed!"

To hell with the defeatism we're supposed to absorb from the corporate media.

I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more.

[K8-EEE]

12. You're Absolutely Right

I swear I think there are GOP operatives everywhere, LOL, for anybody to look at the current situation, the RESULTS of the Bush policies on most people, the polls, and the INCREASING AWARENESS OF VOTER FRAUD...and say "We're doomed," that's BS.

To say "we've got work to do" is always right...!! To say "we can't possibly win" that is a stupid ass freeper troll.

[mike_c]

15. thanks sandnsea-- a little hope feels good right now....

It's damned thin on the ground these days.

[lala_rawraw]

16. Yep... and this is the

trap of having all anon users.

i would make a list of the Segretti plants, but it would get locked as you well know. having to deal with these people all the time for my day job, i have sort of picked up an instinct for identifying them. but the best test is easy... see a suspect thread? search that person's other comments, the pattern will be obvious... they are usually very articulate and entirely brain dead... think of it as little soldiers who are either on a mission from god (he talks to them directly:)) or they get paid to adopt a mission. so they stay on point until you throw them a curve ball, and then they malfunction and meltdown. sometimes quite entertaining. oh, and they never travel alone, even if they have to give their multiple personalities a few sock puppets. i suspect you will see much more as we are now the target because they cannot control the propaganda with us constantly exposing it.

[oasis]

17. Minimum wage. Which party is not for an increase?

Bumper sticker.

[Hardrada]

19. Resistance is futile!

say all the Roveborgs.

[Reckon]

21. Drug war must be about South America

We need a reason, don't ya know!

[Jed Dilligan]

22. Respectfully, I don't think Rove is behind this.

There are a couple of people here who are vocal drug war advocates. The majority oppose the war or shut up about it. There are people like me who never did vote in a national election before the nightmare of Bush threatened all of us--because no one was opposed to the war on drugs and all pursued punitive antipoverty policies. I still hold my nose to vote for the drug warriors, though Kerry and Gore were both better than Clinton on this issue. What I see on the drug war threads, other than misinformation from the warriors, is a lot of unity of purpose in opposing them.

[sandnsea]

24. And they pop up now... why???

I'm not debating the pros or cons of the war on drugs or the genuine views of any given individual. I'm saying that whenever the right wants to stifle some forward momentum of Democrats, we get a sudden barrage of negative threads or divisive threads. Right now it happens to be drug wars, they just popped up out of nowhere. It can be drugs or fathers rights or the word bitch; a variety of things. But inevitably when we really have something we might unite around, we get a sudden influx of negativity and divisive issues. Just like clockwork.

[dysfunctional press]

25. i think you're seeing conspiracies that aren't there.

honestly...what's so special about "now"...? politically, it's time for the summer doldrums anyway, and the elections aren't until november...serious campaigning doesn't even start in earnest until after labour day.

how does the song go again...? "...paranoia, self-destroyah..."

[sandnsea]

30. Thank you

I almost forgot we were in an election year and some states still have primaries going on.

[Euphen]

26. There are always negative and divisive threads.

It's a discussion forum.

[sandnsea]

29. But they're usually pertinent

And there's some logical reason for them. It's a pattern that there are a proliferation of divisive and negative threads at the exact times when our attention should be focused on something important and something that should be unifying.

[Euphen]

32. And what is it our attention should be focused on?

I just don't see how now is any different than a week ago, or any other time. And if there really were some coordinated effort to divide DUers, wouldn't it be arround something like immigration that's much more divisive and is actually an issue this election? I can't imagine that anyone's going to get mad enough about drugs to refuse to vote for the Democrats.

[sandnsea]

33. Then don't bother with this thread

Go focus on something you care about.

[dysfunctional press]

47. pray tell- what is the important thing that we SHOULD be focused on...

at this EXACT moment...?

:eyes:

[sandnsea]

53. Ending the war

Especially considering Iraq has a 28 point plan that includes a timetable for troop withdrawal.

[dysfunctional press]

56. and that just came up now?

the whole iraq war thing?

:eyes: :eyes:

unwarranted paranoia and it's accompanying stress is very bad for the mind and body.

i seriously doubt that democratic underground forums show up on anyone's radar- especially not to the point where organized disruptors are being sent in to...to...(what was it that their dark & nefarious purpose was again...?)

[sandnsea]

58. Same tired excuses

It's always the same old excuses for posting shit at DU, so tired that I'm not going to even respond to them.

But yeah, right now Iraq is proposing a strategy to end the war, Republicans have rubber stamped the Bush collision course, Democrats are generally united in opposing that course, and there are primaries and elections we can use to bring that case to the people. A helluva lot to work with and if you're not interested in that, then you're on the wrong board.

[Euphen]

62. In all seriousness, what exactly are we supposed to be doing?

What important work can we be doing on an internet discussion forum that posts about drugs are distracting us from?

[sandnsea]

66. Promoting the Democratic agenda

And since we're in an election year, it might be a good idea to focus on the failed Republican war policy, candidates who are running, the Dem agenda or the Dem Women's Checklist, the 50 state strategy, registering voters, election integrity, or a whole host of issues that Dems are running on THIS year.

[dysfunctional press]

64. it's called a DISCUSSION Board... a FORUM, if you will...of ideas.

btw- i didn't realize that you're the owner of the board, and that YOU alone get to set the "agenda", and determine which discussion topics are valid and above board...
AND- what EXACTLY is the work that the discussion board is supposed to accomplish then, as YOU see it...?

(funny how delusions of grandeur and paranoia somehow usually end up hand-in-hand)

[sandnsea]

67. And MY Idea Is

We stop getting distracted with stupid shit and focus on the list in #66.

[dysfunctional press]

69. go for it...

don't let yourself get distracted by the threads that don't pertain to the things in your list...

just don't get all high and mighty, and insist that everyone adhere to the same agenda that you've set for yourself...and don't let yourself get disappointed when they don't. :hi:

it's a discussion board after all, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion as to what topic(s) they feel merit discussion.

and have i mentioned about variety being the spice of life...?

[sandnsea]

73. Well go to another thread then

If you don't like my idea of staying focused on the Democratic agenda and candidates, then don't participate in this thread. That's easy enough.

[dysfunctional press]

74. i'll participate in whichever threads i choose...

and you can do the same...:hi:

(it's a very easy system, once you get the hang of it...)

[sandnsea]

75. This thread is about focusing on the Democratic agenda

You haven't contributed anything to that purpose yet. At this point, you're still just another DU distractor.

[dysfunctional press]

77. and what grand goals have you accomplished with your thread?

(preaching to the choir doesn't exactly set the world on fire...)

[sandnsea]

78. 70 other people appreciate it n/t

[Jed Dilligan]

63. Has there been forward momentum?

I can't see it. I can see the administration's position is sliding but I'm not sure if that will ultimately help us in November.

[Jed Dilligan]

23. self delete

bad mouse

[Canuckistanian]

27. I was about to say "what drug threads?"

Then I saw them. Same old shit we've been seeing for 40 years. Some of it inconsequential. A national priority, some say.

Hmmm, where have I heard that before? Some person's name, Skivo, Scivo, something like that. I wonder how that turned out?

[autorank]

28. K&R....focus is right. n/t

[AndyTiedye]

31. What Is Victory Like? I Can't Remember. It Has Been So Long

The only thing thy want to do is to make sure you DO NOT BELIEVE IN YOURSELF. DO NOT BELIEVE IN YOUR AMERICA.

"You've got to belieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve"

It does not matter what I believe. I cannot abide THEIR version of "America", so giving up is not an option.

That's their primary goal, to discourage you, to beat you down,

It is working.

:-(:cry::hurts:

Yet even if winning elections and bringing the warped residents to justice prove to be completely unattainable goals,
even if we are completely doomed to be ruled by FundieRobberBarons forever,
we may still be able to slow down the onslaught and mitigate some of the damage they do.

to stifle your faith in your fellow man.

It is not my fellow man I am worried about.

[Clarkie1]

34. I really appreciate this thread acknowledging the 39 Dems

who stood united.

It's the first one I've seen on DU.

[Alamom]

36. Second that. Thank you sandnsea....

[rman]

35. "Divisive threads" as in, people disagree with one another?

We can't have that now can we?


Plan Colombia - Cashing-In on the Drug War Failure
http://www.chomskytorrents.org/TorrentDetails.php?TorrentID=1254
http://www.plancolombia.org/
20 years of drug-wars in the Andes have actually increased cocaine imports to the U.S.
Could there be ulterior motives to a plan focused on beefing up the local military and spraying coca-fields in rebel-held parts of the country when coca is grown all around Colombia?
Featuring Noam Chomsky, the late Senator Paul Wellstone, U.S. Members of Congress John Conyers and Jim McGovern, and many others.


The "War on Drugs"
has caused a massive surge in cost for illicit mind-altering substances, in turn raising the market value of the trade in highly targeted drugs such as Cocaine and Heroin to over a trillion dollars. This has had several prominent sociological, economic and political effects. A case in point is the South American country of Colombia, which had developed a commodity market to manage their imports and exports by the late 1960's. The subsequent actions taken by the American government included dumping surplus corn and grain into the Colombian market below market prices, depressing domestic production. The following decade showed a substantial rise in the profile of Cocaine use in American pop culture.

War on drugs Part I: Winners documentary (realvideo, 50 min) explaining 'War on Drugs' by Tegenlicht of VPRO Dutch television. After short introduction in Dutch (1 min), English spoken. Broadband internet needed.
http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/tv/vpro/tegenlicht/bb.20030622.rm?title=Bekijk%20de%20uitzending%20WAR%20ON%20DRUGS%20DEEL%20I%20in%20realvideo%20BREEDBAND%20tot%20500%20kbs

War on drugs Part II: Losers documentary (realvideo, 50 min) showing downside of the 'War on Drugs' by Tegenlicht of VPRO Dutch television. After short introduction in Dutch (1 min), English spoken. Broadband internet needed.
http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/tv/vpro/tegenlicht/bb.20030629.rm?title=Bekijk%20de%20uitzending%20WAR%20ON%20DRUGS%20DEEL%20II%20in%20realvideo%20BREEDBAND%20tot%20500%20kbs

--

On "trade agreements"

Life and Debt
http://www.chomskytorrents.org/TorrentDetails.php?TorrentID=125
Jamaica, land of sea, sand and sun... and a prime example of the complexities of economic globalization on the world's developing countries. With twenty-five years of "help" from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank intended to bring Third World nations such as Jamaica into the fold of free market economies, these restructuring" policies have crippled Jamaica's efforts towards self-reliant development while enriching the lenders. This scathing film is an unapologetic look at the "new world order" from the point of view of Jamaican workers and farmers, as well as government and policy officials.


Trading Freedom: the secret life of the FTAA
Indigenous struggles, working-class resistance, women vs. the FTAA, Your Biotech Future, media activism, the NAFTA Chapter 11 investor-state dispute settlement mechanism, and the ever-popular "state repression of dissent" (coming soon to to a town near you). Footage from Akwesasne, Chiapas, Quebec City, Sao Paulo, and Tijuana, plus the combined efforts of over 100 videographers, photographers, free radio outlaws, writers, editors, techs, and rabble-rousers make this the perfect vid for your local anti-FTAA event. With implementation of the accord only a few years away, time is running out.
http://frazer.rice.edu/~tish/index.html
http://frazer.rice.edu/~tish/video.html
http://frazer.rice.edu/~tish/video.mov
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/01/284511.html


Democracy Now
Tuesday, May 17th, 2005
Is there another Hugo Chavez in Latin America? An Exclusive Interview with Ecuador's New President
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/17/1420221&mode=thread&tid=25
With Greg Palast

For today's broadcast we are joining up with Think Global, public radio's week of special coverage focusing on globalization. And we begin today in a country that is facing significant pressure from the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, multinational corporations and the US government. And that country is Ecuador. Last month, the country grabbed international headlines after mass protests forced President Lucio Gutierrez to flee the country. "Sucio Lucio," or Dirty Lucio, as he was called by some, rose to power in 2002, promising to break away from the supposedly voluntary austerity plan imposed by the World Bank. But, within a month of taking office, Gutierrez flew to Washington and was photographed holding hands with President Bush.

When he returned to Quito, he quickly went back on many of his campaign promises and tightened the austerity measures, including raising the price of cooking gas. Mass protest ultimately led to a scene where Gutierrez was inside of his palace, surrounded by more than 100,000 protesters. After Gutierrez fled last month, the country's congress named his vice president Alfredo Palacio as the new president. Palacio takes over a country that sits on more than 4 billion barrels of known oil reserves. Many in Latin America and in Washington are waiting to see whether Palacio will join the popular leftist movements in Latin America or will continue the neoliberal program of his predecessor. Investigative reporter Greg Palast traveled to Quito and met with Palacio. He prepared this exclusive report for Democracy Now! in the mountains of Ecuador.

[ProSense]

37. OMG! NAFTA! OMG! OMG!

I could have sworn that was a debate from the 1990s.


Swift Liars meme in effect: We're losing our sovereignty, we're gonna be AMEXICANADIANS!

[rman]

38. NAFTA is still in effect, it's still a scam

(and the criticism about NAFTA has anything to do with sovereignty)

There's as much if not more reason to debate it now as there ever was.

It's understandable that those who benefit from the scam (big corporations), and anyone who believes their BS, would have us believe that the debate about NAFTA is over. That's what the RW says about anything they don't want debated; "it's in the past", "get over it".

The lie is that "Free Trade" (as it is implemented) is as good as the name sounds. Same sort of lie as "bringing freedom and democracy to Iraq".

There's plenty of evidence that so-called "Free Trade", including NAFTA, is a lie. See the documentaries in my previous post.

[ProSense]

39. NAFTA is still a debate, but it's not new or shocking!

And the RW meme is that American sovereignty is in jeopardy!

[rman]

50. "not new and shocking" - so what?

That's hardly the issue, is it?

The OP asserts that DU-ers shouldn't discuss "divisive" topics, I say there's plenty of reason to discuss things that DU-ers disagree about. When did "new and shocking" become a criteria?

[ProSense]

61. "Rovian punditry," RW memes, the point of my original post! n/t

[rman]

76. Would that be reason not to discuss NAFTA, war on drugs, etc?

RW memes and punditry do tend to not be true.
But problems with so-called free trade, war on drugs etc are very real.

[emulatorloo]

40. kick n/t

[bridgit]

41. i've thought for a long time that there is too much drift & sometimes du..

personifies nothing if not the drift of opinion & viewpoint...

[rosesaylavee]

42. I think there IS a new level of

"despairing" threads that seem to go nowhere and seem to promote attitudes of "why should we try to fight this anymore" - and they do seem to be started again and again by the same posters. Some of them could be DUers that are actually having a bad time and need our support and encouragement but as they happen again and again a few weeks running...

Just saying.

[me b zola]

44. Your point is well taken

I just left this thread and the thread at the top of the page is a perfect example of what you are talking about. :(

Thanks for the thread, sandnsea, we do need to stay focused.

[zanne]

45. You're right.

I'm as disgusted with our Dems in Congress as anybody else (probably more so than most of you), but there's no way I'd ever vote for a Republican Rep. or Senator. Alot of Republicans will be staying home on election day, and Rove and Co. is trying to make sure alot of Dems do the same thing.

[catmandu57]

46. More projection

Democrats are divided, yeah right. I don't know a democrat who doesn't have utter contempt for * and all of his henchmen, these are pretty pathetic attempts, anyone can see their transparency.
I must be getting good at discerning which threads are just divisive
look over there threads, I go right past them if everyone else would do the same they'de sink and die, just like mine do.

[HeeBGBz]

48. I agree with you there

I've become a pariah on a popular music website where I was one of the original members. Because of a battle with a neocon prick who gets away with bully tactics he uses to deflect any liberal message I try to present.

I give up on that site and will concentrate on my own website for the same artist. Sad thing is the artist has every appearance of being an awesome progressive liberal voice but the majority of his fans (at least the more vocal ones) are right wing/fundies.

[jasmeel]

49. Excellent post!!! I wish people understood this more. n/t

[Jeffersons Ghost]

51. and don't be fooled into thinking doing the same tired ass things...

will bring different results at the poll read this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1490722

[fishnfla]

52. We are easily distracted because we are all stoned

Time to put the bong down

Seriously, its not just DU its everywhere. The GOP controls all branches of Gov't. They are united in their voice, and the message is: We are in charge, we are the deciders, and things are gonna stay in the same handbasket to hell because its the Democrats that dont have a plan.

Now dont pay no mind to that clusterfuck that is Iraq, we gonna get us some issue going. Flag burning and Gay marriage, pony up.

[Dinger]

54. Don't Forget - Private Schools And Homeschooling Are Better Than Public

schools. I've seen a lot of that "stuff" too.

[IdaBriggs]

60. The drug war threads started because one person asked if

marijuana was "safe" and a whole bunch of people immediately began insisting it was, which I think is a minimization of the dangers -- they weren't a Rovian plot! We aren't all going to agree about everything, and drug use is one of them. We're on Democratic Underground -- its okay for us to quibble amongst ourselves over stuff that is important to us.

[Ksec]

68. Remember

They are not America. They play this game where they consider themselves America and we are the enemy who hates America. They are not America. They are the right wing. Always correct this propaganda. When they say we hate America, no we hate what the right wing is doing to America. They like to pretend that they have sole ownership of the word America.

Always correct these rovian tactics.

[bdamomma]

70. they are playing mind games

we just have to rise about it. Rove is trying to psychologically drain us, don't let him.

[wisteria]

71. Absolutely right. Rove is at it again with the same old same old.

It makes me want to fight him and the Republican dividers even more. I say bring it on! We will prevail! W@e have claimed the higher ground.

[symbolman]

72. Time to promote

"Bush Scandal Fatigue", simple as that.. oh, might as well call it "Republican Scandal Fatigue" as well.. kill two turkeys with one stone :)

[Benfea]

79. I'm GLAD we're divided.

One of the most disturbing aspects of conservatives is the zombie-like way they will all spout the same arguments on the same issues in robotic unison. I never want to be like that.

[Buxtehude]

80. Diversity is fine

as long as we don't lose good people along the way. After all, divide and conquer is a Republican family value.

[Benfea]

81. Get used to it.

Getting liberals to do anything is like trying to organize atheists, which in turn is like herding cats.

The DLC just needs to stop being simpering wimps, pick an issue that most of us more or less agree on, and hammer the Republicans with it 24-7. Just as with Clinton's "it's the economy, stupid," you have to go on the attack, not sit around and wait for them to attack you like Kerry did.

[Buxtehude]

82. Agreed

And if we wait long enough "The Economy Stupid" will be a good one to start with. I was very upset that Kerry didn't attack the Swift Boaters, but I hoped someone knew what they were doing. Oh well, thats history.
I guess the definition of Liberal, in itself, dooms us to our fate. If we can just hold it together till after November and at least take back one house of congress.