please help me with a reply to this repukes message?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

i am so bad at debate with repukes....:dunce:


you said this
Body: "republican congresscritters are assholes

they have been finding these same degraded munitions for 3 years...this is truly a farse and a desperate ploy by repubs and they have made complete fools of themselves for tryiung this stunt!

500 15 to 18 year old degraded canisters of mustard gas....we didn't go to war over muustard gas...they aren't WMDS WE WENT TO WAR ON THE LIE OF NUKES!!"


Hi, I just wanted to respond. You didn't mention that Sarin gas was included in their findings. You also didn't mention that Saddam lied about saying that these chemical agents were all destroyed. Why did he keep these around? Don't you think that if he kept some, that means he intends to use them or create more?

We all know that Saddam and 9/11 are not connected directly, but don't you think that if saddam wanted to help al qaida by selling them these chemical and biological weapons, don't you think he'd give them a discount? AFter all, he did use the WMD on his own people, why wouldn't he sell them to terrorists that would use them against the USA?

[babylonsister]

1. Here's a handy point-no link every found between Saddam and

Al Qaeda; they never cooperated with each other.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47812-2004Jun16.html

Al Qaeda-Hussein Link Is Dismissed

By Walter Pincus and Dana Milbank
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, June 17, 2004; Page A01

The Sept. 11 commission reported yesterday that it has found no "collaborative relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda, challenging one of the Bush administration's main justifications for the war in Iraq.


Along with the contention that Saddam Hussein was stockpiling weapons of mass destruction, President Bush, Vice President Cheney and other top administration officials have often asserted that there were extensive ties between Hussein's government and Osama bin Laden's terrorist network; earlier this year, Cheney said evidence of a link was "overwhelming."

But the report of the commission's staff, based on its access to all relevant classified information, said that there had been contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda but no cooperation. In yesterday's hearing of the panel, formally known as the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, a senior FBI official and a senior CIA analyst concurred with the finding.

The staff report said that bin Laden "explored possible cooperation with Iraq" while in Sudan through 1996, but that "Iraq apparently never responded" to a bin Laden request for help in 1994. The commission cited reports of contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda after bin Laden went to Afghanistan in 1996, adding, "but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship. Two senior bin Laden associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al Qaeda and Iraq. We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States."

more...

[Warpy]

2. A trace of the binary components of Sarin in ONE SHELL

that failed to explode in an IED is not a "stockpile of Sarin."

You see, the operative word is TRACE.

To use your own argument, with his back against the wall and his army being overrun by the US, why wouldn't he throw everything he had at us?

Answer: he did. He had nothing and YOU KNOW IT.

[patrice]

3. Those of us who have been worried about this war from the beginning

have known about these rotten and chemically de-stabilized, and hence use-less, old chemical weapons for about 5 years now.

Scott Ritter told us.

[Monkeyman]

13. Scott told us

Old Weapons would be found but they are useless. Plus who sold them to Iraq opps Rummy himself

[patrice]

18. I know S. Ritter is a Republican, but he IS one of my heros, for his

un-Afraid, clear-eyed, honest, hard-nosed Rationalism.

[blm]

4. Because the reason Saddam kept Islamic extremists OUT OF IRAQ for years

as POLICY, was because Bin Laden had Saddam on his hit list for overthrow or assassination. Saddam kept Iraq SECULAR and wouldn't allow any powerstructure to evolve for the Islamists in Iraq.

[patrice]

19. Because he was a Secularist, which is one of the reasons we backed

him against the grassroots Mullahs, who welcome outsiders in their own Religious sects to do things in Iraq (and elsewhere in the region).

This is one of the reasons Bush's War is supposed to be Forever.

They won't re-draw arbitrary - Western imposed - borders. Too bad!!!

[4nic8em]

5. How about this...

When Saddam was facing the inevitable and undeniable realization that him and his entire country were being invaded and overthrown, what possible reason would have prevented his use of these "50,000 tons" of WMD in defense of Iraq and his empire?

[serryjw]

6. A few tidbits

quote.......
VX is the least volatile of the nerve agents, which means that it is the slowest to evaporate from a liquid into a vapor. Therefore, VX is very persistent in the environment. Under average weather conditions, VX can last for days on objects that it has come in contact with. Under very cold conditions, VX can last for months
end quote........
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/vx/basics/facts.asp

GREAT article on the last time we found Sarin
quote......
The small amount of deadly nerve agent sarin dispersed by a shell that exploded near a U.S. military convoy apparently was left over from Saddam Hussein's banned chemical arsenal built up two decades ago.
snip.......
According to a U.N. report last year, Iraq claimed that there was "no industrial-scale production" of the agent. During the early 1990s after the Persian Gulf War, Iraq emptied many of its sarin shells under U.N. supervision. The sarin agent has a limited shelf life unless stored under carefully controlled conditions, Buchanan said
end quote.......

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-05-17-sarin_x.htm

I am much more concerned over Depleted Uranium......We are going to have thousands of kids coming home..and dying from it.

[Mnemosyne]

8. And their wives and many deformed children.

Bastards.

[serryjw]

9. Try this on........

quote........
The lack of support this administration gives its uniformed personnel is monumentally ruthless and evil. Since Bush's unprovoked attack on Iraq, nearly 12,000 soldiers have been evacuated because of disease. Some of the sickness can be attributed to Halliburton-KBR serving tainted water and rotten food in the mess halls, but most is undoubtedly from radiation poisoning due to the widespread use of the deadly Depleted Uranium
end quote.......
http://www.counterbias.com/669.html

Dover's New Mortuary Center Aims to Ease Family's Grief
Amazing how they can build this in one year!
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct2003/n10292003_2003102910.html

[Mnemosyne]

11. Some days I get more nauseous than others.

Our troops begging for food.

And the mortuary opened just months after * announced "feels good!"

How much longer.

http://www.counterbias.com/669.html

snip>
Journalist Bob Kerr writes in The Providence Journal that Marine Nick Andoscia called and asked his mother to send food. Kerr said Nick told his mother that he and the men in his unit had shed about 10 pounds in their first few weeks in Iraq. They were pulling 22-hour patrol shifts, and were getting only two meals a day -- not meals to remember. He said they were going to the Iraqis and literally begging for food.

snip>
In the only evidence of support I am aware of, just months after getting his war on, Bush opened a new $30 million, state-of-the-art, 70,000 square-foot mortuary at Dover to support the troops, or what is left of them, when they are sneaked back to the states under cover of darkness. Since then, he has sent America's sons and daughters unprepared and unequipped into a raging guerilla insurgency with orders to kill anything that moves.



Enough money for a fancy building, huh? Trying to impress someone and probably no-bid contracts to build it. Filthy POS.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct2003/n10292003_2003102910.html

The Wall of Fallen Heroes greets each visitor as they walk into the impressive Charles C. Carson Center for Mortuary Affairs, Dover AFB, Delaware. Each tragedy is engraved into the glass for remembrance of the date and number fallen heroes.

[serryjw]

12. Been following depleted uranium

for 2 year.....go see my new thread.......YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

[Mnemosyne]

14. I watch and read everything I can get my hands on.

I also use the info to attempt to talk the kids to not sign up.

thanks for the heads up. I'll kick your thread tonite and in the a.m. Is it in GD? Going to look.

Horrendous trouble ahead.

[Mnemosyne]

7. Tell the repuke that if Saddam had the capability to

use the weapons they claim he had, he would have USED them when we went into Iraq!!

What is so hard about that to the pukes?!

Saddam knew what was coming and most certainly would have used everything in his arsenal to fight back March 19, 2003. He really had nothing much to lose at that point.

They are all fucking brain dead!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

10. thank you ALL so very much! you rock!!! and he hasn't responed .....

becuase when confronted with truth their is nothing but silence

thank you again :grouphug:

[serryjw]

15. Funny I have found that to be true also

n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

16. he responded....help again...he is wacked

RE: RE: you said this
Body: Well, that didn't answer my question as to why wouldn't he sell them to terrorists. You explained why he wouldn't sell them to Bin Laden. But obviously saddam was in cahoots with other terrorist organizations, such as hamas. He was giving suicide bomber families $25,000 for sacrificing themselves to take out israelis. It is well known that Saddam hated Israel, and all muslim extremists share the belief that Israel should be destroyed. (remember in the first gulf war when he was launching SCUD misslies at israel?) So, yes he would absolutely give his WMD to terrorists to either destroy israel or destroy america which supports israel.

The WMD were not rotten. It has been 5 years since the intelligence reports, so obviouly there are going to be less potent. They were considered degraded, not rotten, according to the gov't's report, AND they were still potentially lethal. Regardless, why weren't they destroyed by saddam? Why did He lie about destroying them? Did clinton destroy them all when he bombed iraq's WMD plants in 1998?

Why didn't saddam use his weapons against us? Good question. If you were saddam, would you use wmd against our bombs and planes flying thousands of feet in the air? If it is a known fact that he had WMD in the first gulf war, why didn't he use them then? He knew that our soldiers were prepared for chemical attacks and wouldn't do any good, except validate the US intentions for going to war. ORRRRRR hide the wmd and turn world opinion against the US. Had he used them against us, we would have had broader support in the global community, and less crazies saying "bush lied, and people died." It was genius. His reluctance to use his WMD has turned americans against each other. He won!

Trace??? Can you explain to me where we only found a trace? Maybe in one instance. But the gov't report doesn't say that only a trace has been found. And so what, we still found stockpiles of other chemicals and nerve agents. Do you really wanna argue that it isn't good enough to find just mustard gas? I have believed with all my heart, even when bush said intelligence was way off, that there were WMD in Iraq. The whole world believed it, dems believed it, and now we see that we were right. And it feels so good to be so right on this issue, because it makes the libs look like such weenies.

[LynnTheDem]

17. You can't argue logic with a rightwingnut; there were NO WMD in Iraq

and that's a fact.

Mustard gas is NOT a "WMD", has NEVER een a "WMD"; it is an area dispersal weapon, a battlefield weapon. An everyday hanadgun has far more killing power than mustard gas.

Fact.

The old munitions found in Iraq were good for nothing but salad dressing by 1992.

Fact.

BUSH HIMSELF has admitted there was no "WMD" found in Iraq.

Fact.

Both bush's own rightwing hand-picked weapons inspectors reported NO "WMD" found in Iraq.

Fact.

The "world" did NOT believe Iraq had "WMD".

Fact.

But another fact is, rightwingnuts can't deal with facts.

And that's a fact.