There are only 13 Senators worth anything.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

Kerry/Feingold Amendment

13 Ayes
86 Nays

[babylonsister]

1. Levin's amendment up now; we'll find out who the real turncoats are.

though I would have voted for Kerry-Feingold, with a finite date for gettin' the hell out of there.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

5. Sorry. Not in my book. IMHO the only Amendment should be

the Kerry/Feingold.

As Kerry said, "Lie and Die!"

[seabeyond]

6. is levins plan bad? n/t

[babylonsister]

9. Levin's bill doesn't want to set a time frame for getting out; that's

not acceptable/sounds too much like what's going on now.

[LynneSin]

21. So creating a timeline for withdrawel is similiar how?

We need an amendment that we can work with the Republican administration (which if you haven't checked recently - have the majority control). Levin plan calls for establishing a timeline for our exit strategy, something we do not have right now.

We need to get out of there but we also need to put forth a plan of existing our troops out without imploding the region that we've fucked up royally.

Was I against Kerry/Feingold - no.

But I'm also not holding it against anyone who voted against it. Levin was the smarter amendment

[babylonsister]

26. Huh? Creating a timeline and sticking by it is NOT similar to

Levin's amendment OR this admin's policies.
And sorry, but the region is already imploding, thanks in no small measure to us.

[MADem]

16. Barbara Boxer had the right idea

Vote for anything and everything that moves us in the right direction, which is getting the fuck out of Iraq....

[SteppingRazor]

2. Well, that's about half a dozen more than I expected...

so, at least that's good. :shrug:

I'm afraid Carl Levin's amendment killed any chance at Democratic cohesion on this issue. We knew going in that Kerry/Feingold would be voted down, and probably by a large amount of senators.

[BOSSHOG]

3. 86 are on the record

to continue to have our kids slaughtered because of a lie.

[still_one]

10. no doubt about it. Let's see what excuses they use years from now

they think the public will forget, but the fight has just begun, and we will slowly start to elect new people who actually represent DEMOCRATIC VALUES

[seabeyond]

4. again i need to know if there is a different dem plan that the dems are

supporting. if so this needs to be clarified on the reasoning for the vote before attack. i heard on larry king, all supported iraq transcession this year, just which plan

[partylessinOhio]

11. The simplest plan is the answer. GET THEM ALL OUT OF THERE.

PRONTO!

[karynnj]

35. The problem is "transition" is a purposely vague word

Last year the intent was that it meant that we would be significantly less involved by the end of 2006 than the beginning.

[seabeyond]

38. thanks for the correct spelling. beyond that

2003 kerry had a good plan for iraq 2004he had to revise and still had a good plan. 2005 another revised but still good plan. and here we are 2006 doing the same

whose idea was the transition of 2006. ???? people not in power? doesn't really matter what we come up with, with the republicans in power and control it is their choice of creating resolve or not. and seems to me they have been and are still in the not phase. stay the course no plan.

if this is it.... that the dems are becoming divisive over, instead of uniting to present in 2006 election, what a waste. nothing is going ot happen anyway. repugs aren't going ot allow it. am i missing something?

[Tom Joad]

7. This is Republican/Democratic War. This just confirms it yet again.

[still_one]

12. except for those that voted for the feingold/Kerry ammendment

[bdamomma]

39. right

the repubs will not give anything to the dems, and as a result, it is our armed forces that are getting killed for only lies of this corrupt and insane regime.

them and war on terror, they can go to hell.

[still_one]

8. That is why if we win in November it WILL NOT BE because of the

Democrats in Congress, BUT IN SPITE OF THEM, and because of the major screw ups that this administration has done

how pathetic.

That is why our mind set must change, and we MUST start to clean up within before we can expect to suceed

We will start with candidates like Ned Lamont, and work one race at a time. It will NOT happen quickly, but with persistence we will be able to take our party back

[Mr_Spock]

13. It was a foregone conclusion - at least their speeches are on record

The speeches on the floor were great. It is common sense that you do not vote for a losing amendment if it may cost you an election in the future - you vote for amendments that will pass. Voting on a losing ammendment on principal is a fools errand.

[Terran1212]

15. I wish we had more "fools" in Congress

[Mr_Spock]

17. Hehe - we hopefully will in the fall

Even when we have a majority, it will still be very difficult to get out of Iraq - never mind while we are in the minority and losing ammendments don't make us look like winners.

[Terran1212]

20. Voting against the opinion of the United States' people does though

[Mr_Spock]

22. So it will help the Iraqi's "feel" better that they voted for it?

I'm not sure where the advantage is in voting for a losing ammendment - if Dems were nto going to be united, they are better off just voting it down. I wish I knew how to get the Dems united on this issue.

[Terran1212]

23. You don't know the advantage of voting period it seems

You might as well just not show up in your logic!

[Mr_Spock]

25. I wish the Dems voted "present" on the House bill

They were stupid to even vote for that sham. As far as the Senate - giving the enemy an issue they love to beat you with is not very pragmatic.

[spartan61]

14. Call me naive or just plain stupid. But I thought the polls

showed that the American people want us out of Iraq. Since the Senate is suppose to represent us, why don't they? Instead of voting what we, the people want, they continue to vote what they want. I'm so sick of them. Why does the majority of the Senate want us to stay in Iraq with an open ended commitment?

[demdiva]

18. They do! Which doesn't seem to matter much right now ...see this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2690302

[bdamomma]

40. It's all about them and their money and who' s backside they are

kissing.

[LynneSin]

19. The Levin plan is excellent and serves the same goals

We want a plan - an exit strategy.

The only defeatists are the ones here who don't have a clue about what was going on with the Kerry/Feingold vs. Levin amendments.

I mean even Robert Byrd opted for the Levin amendment but not the K/F one and Byrd has been one of the biggest advocates of trying to get us out of the war.

The ones that will upset me are the ones who do not support Levin.

[seabeyond]

27. i am not sure what the controversy is. i watch king last night with

senator women. king really wanted to dismiss dems not being united becasue there are two plans. it was all about splitting the dems, and the women stood strongly dems are untied. we are at least challenging bush opposed to repugs that do nothing, say nothing, don't challenge bush. and bush has NO plan. the dems not only have a plan they are discussing and challenging the repugs. it was very good.

now today to hear the attacks on the dem for the plan they voted on works right into kings hands last night, what those senator women were fighting so much.

so though i like kerry and feingold and probably their plan, i will pat dems on back for what they did do, and support them

[Qanisqineq]

41. I'm with you

and seabeyond. I just wish people would stop attacking dems that supported at least one of the plans. There are some of those senators against the K/F amendment that, while I don't always agree with their votes, they have the utmost respect from me for some of the causes they fight hard for.

[Mass]

44. We should really be upset by the one who did not support any of these two

amendments, I agree, but the Levin amendment is just a way to have an amendment that keeps the caucus together (and note that all those who voted for K/F voted for Levin in a big show of unity). He may be right to propose it, but it is an open-ended amendment that does not say how long the troops will stay. You may agree with that, I dont.

[burythehatchet]

24. I was actually plesed that there were 13

I expected fewer.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

28. SO WHAN IS THE PEACE RALLY IN DC? WHAT GOOD IS TYPING DOING?

[babylonsister]

29. No offense, but what good have peace rallies done lately?

The whore media won't cover them, so it's like they never happened despite all the effort people make to show up.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

30. THEY'D COVER THEM IF THEY WERE BIG ENOUGH!

9 people does not make a Peace rally! RIGHT CINDY?

[babylonsister]

31. Errr, did you forget last September 24, 2005, or the peace rallies

this year? They were comprised of hundreds of thousands of people but were barely mentioned.
Maybe millions need to show up to get some attention.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

37. OH YES SORRY I FORGOT! I'M SOOOO FUCKING GLAD YOU REMINDED ME...

I GUESS WE'RE THROUGH FOR THE YEAR, RIGHT? HEY, LET'S ALL RUN FOR CONGRESS!

[babylonsister]

45. Chill out, dude. Get to organizing then.

:eyes:

[bdamomma]

42. we weren't covered in the media in Sept. 24th 2005

because the media was focusing so much on Hurricane Rita, we were up against a hurricane, but they will keep on doing what they are doing until they are challenged by us. And if the marches are attended by us we will be covered, why not take the chance. I'm tired of being someone's doormat.

[jbnow]

36. What good are non-binding

resolutions sure to lose? Kerry/Feingold got 13 votes. Levin/Reed got 39. The debate was good for the Dems, but it was just a statement, nothing changed.

The same would be true of a peace rally. A statement even if it couldn't change the outcome right away.

The press didn't cover them much but they were all kissing bush then. It could be quite different now. Should the past behavior of the press be a reason for use to not make any effort?

[itcfish]

32. Sorry, But Are I think you May be Wrong

Looks most of the Dem Senators went with the Levin Feingold which calls for troop deployment by December 31,. But again, I could be wrong myself.

[babylonsister]

34. Wow, are you confused. It was a Kerry-Feingold amendment,

out by July 2007, and only 13 people voted for it. Levin's amendment was open-ended.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

33. SO WHAT IS THE FAR LEFT WORTH? NOTHING THESE DAYS...

I'D SAY! WE'RE WORTH NOTHING IF WE SIT ON OUR BUTTS LIKE A HEARD OF CATS AND FAIL TO MARCH ON DC!

[bdamomma]

43. we have nothing to lose, we have to challenge them

or should I change that around we have alot to lose if we don't get out there.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

46. KICKED AND RECOMMENDED! WHEN WILL WE "STAND UP" & PROTEST?

[Jersey Devil]

47. I am so proud of my NJ senators: Lautenberg & Menendez

NJ, Hawaii and MA, the only states with both Senators standing up today.