Who is most to blame for the illegal immigration problem?

[Yollam]

Who is most to blame for the illegal immigration problem?

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Next poll - who has the best solution?

[Yollam]

3. Clearly, neither of the parties do.

BTW, I would not be averse to allowing illegals to be given permission to stay and work under ONE CONDITION.

They would receive the SAME PAY AND BENEFITS as American workers would get for the same work.

Otherwise, they are being used as little more than scabs.

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. As long as you continue to call them 'illegals'

they will be alientated.

If you really do know these people, then surely you realize that when we call them 'illegals', they are just as offended as African Americans are when we call them that N word.

[Yollam]

10. There are plenty of pejoratives for illegals - I have used none.

They are staying in the United States Illegally. I am an immigrant to Japan. I went through the process, I have a visa, I am here LEGALLY. It is a matter of status, not name calling, and what makes you think they all want you speaking for them, and what makes them offended or not?

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Then you don't really know these people

I work with them every day - for many years now. They don't want to break our laws, but have no choice if they want to feed their families. And they are offended when they are called 'illegals' or 'aliens'.

And FYI, I am also involved in the Latino Rights movement here in my community. No they haven't asked me to speak for them, but they don't mind my help organizing rallies and contacting media. They also don't mind my monetary contributions to their cause. So I really doubt they would mind my speaking truth to power on a discussion board.

If you are in Japan, then you obviously have no first hand knowledge of their struggle. So your words are likely to be more offensive to them than mine. But since you want them deported, I guess you don't really care if you offend them.

[Yollam]

24. I grew up on the border and am well aware of Mexican poverty.

I am also aware of American history and what a difficult struggle we had to get wages, working conditions and benefits from an absolute horror at the turn of the last century to pretty decent conditions by the 70s - and they have deteriorated ever since, with the poor falling further and further behind. It was only through solidarity of workers that we were able to leave behind the days when Americans were payed in company scrip that was used at the company store. Allowing illegals in in huge numbers has been a big factor in undermining that solidarity, since there is now a huge labor pool willing to work in horrible conditions for shit pay.

It is not my experience that most recent Mexican arrivals blather about being offended at the word "illegal". They are aware that their presence is illegal. It would take quite a bit of coaching from would-be do-gooders like yourself to even think in such nonsensical terms.

So which "Latino Rights" group to you work for? LULAC? NCLR? In my estimations, the rights of latinos should be the same as anyone else's, but guess what, non-citizens do NOT enjoy the same rights as citizens. Until we live in a borderless utopia world that's how it will always be.

As for me, if I overstay my visa or violate the law, I will be deported, and that's as it should be.

[Critters2]

22. I offended when wages are suppressed

[AndyTiedye]

12. Agreed. Then They Can Unionize, Instead of Being Used to Break Unions

The real crime isn't illegal immigration, it's the wages and working conditions they work under when they come here.

[Jed Dilligan]

2. I say White America

Because it's the only target as broad as the issue.

This country isn't an island. It's not Switzerland either. We never have and never will fully control our borders.

We should have a healthy enough society to absorb whatever comes.

To do that we must turn our focus away from the Other, the Outsider that fixates our thoughts.

Exclusion of any kind is not a magic bullet.

Enforcement of any law will not produce a just society.

[Lefty48197]

4. White politicians who decide that it is ILLEGAL for them to enter

.

[cliss]

5. None of the above.

It's the Pope. He won't advocate for family planning, so Mexico has a huge surplus population that needs to migrate north for its survival.

Hispanics are actually very hard-working, talented people. They would do well......if there weren't so many of them.

[Yollam]

6. Ummm... small disagreement.

"Hispanics are actually very hard-working, talented people. They would do well......if there weren't so many of them."



Maybe I see this differently because I grew up in El Paso, right on the Mexican border, so the idea of living in a community that is 80% Mexican or Mexican-American is normal to me. You use the word "actually" as though this was something surprising. I know Mexicans to be hard-working, kind and wonderful people, and a lot of the illegals that these employers pick up on the street corners and pay next to nothing are more intelligent and well-read than the employers' pampered, snot-nosed kids will ever be. It's a shame that you find the industriousness and intelligence of Mexicans surprising. I've always taken it for granted.


As for population, it's not just the church, this is a cultural tradition going back centuries. Subsequent generations of Mexican-Americans here in the states tend to have fewer kids - around the globe, affluence seems to be more linked to low birth rates than religion, anyway...

[Jed Dilligan]

13. Big families are adaptive to peasant agriculture

So chilango immigrants are likely to have smaller families than Chiapans or Oaxacans.

It takes a few generations of urbanization to drop the habit. A lot of customs and pastimes depend on large families, so even after it becomes counter-adaptive (mouths to feed, instead of hands to help) there is social value in retaining the structure. Also, the moral economy of peasant society is sustaining where the normal American economics ("We can't afford another kid") would apply otherwise.

In my experience Latinos aren't the most notable retainers of peasant family structure in America. Some Southeast Asian people who were essentially in the Neolithic before the CIA got them caught up in the war are living close to where I live. They are refugees, 10-15 relatives per studio apartment. They can feed that entire family on around 10K a year in welfare checks because they are extremely frugal and communal--but perhaps mostly because they have very low demand for domestic space.

We might be reaching a point of economic bust in this country where big families are adaptive again. At least, we know it's adaptive to build a close-knit community around oneself that offers networks of mutual support.

"The poor are poor because they breed too much" is a very old conservative argument, and I don't think it will play very well here on DU.

[Yollam]

15. Yes, and I should have mentioned...

Yes, and I should have mentioned that a large family does not preclude success. I have more than a few Mexican friends growing up in El Paso who had large families, but they and all their siblings went to college and got decent jobs, and their parents were not rich by a long shot. They just all helped each other out. I actually envied the wonderful tight families they had.

[radwriter0555]

7. "People" who are just trying to make a better life for their families.

It takes some nerve, doesn't it?

[Critters2]

23. Tell it to the French government

[DBoon]

8. Vicente Fox

for wanting a cheap way out of Mexico's financial problems

[melnjones]

14. Yeah...

since there wasn't illegal immigration before he came along. The jerk.


(please note the sarcasm)

[DBoon]

20. Illegal migration did boom with the collapse of the PRI

The system that held Mexico together for decades has been replaced with a neo-liberal free market one, where there is absolutely no interest in addressing the reasons why so many choose to abandon their homes

[spag68]

11. workers and business

This is just another chapter of the ongoing struggle of workers to get a fair wage and the industrial robber barons, who think all workers should be secondary to their rightful place as the rulers.

[Clarkie1]

17. Overpopulation in Mexico. nt

[wuushew]

18. I commend Mexico on making great progress however

http://esa.un.org/unpp/index.asp?panel=1

[Clarkie1]

21. Good to see. Of course, the high birth rate in previous years means

high growth will continue for sometime. Good that the birth rate has been falling, though. It will take some time for the population to stablilize if the growth rate drops to 2 children per couple. That is the replacement rate, of course. Hopefully it gets there...it's close.

And not just Mexico, but the whole planet needs a birth rate at 2 children per couple, maximum in order to stabilize or even (hopefully) in the next century begin reducing population slowly to a more manageable level.

[UTUSN]

19. Other: KKKarl ROVE. (Only partly joking.) n/t