Liberal/progressive political philosophy assumes the wisdom of the people

[Stevendsmith]

But the situtaion in which we find oursleves today dramatically contradicts that assumption. The idiotic choices the country has made and the chronic unwillingness to recognize these idiotic choices and correct them has forced me to doubt the intellectual foundations of the Enlightenment -- the optimistic belief in human wisdom as a driver of social progress.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. There have always been

and always will be ignorant people, and also intellectually challenged people. (my years in ESE don't allow me to say...stupid.)

[danalytical]

2. There are an awfully lot of poor working class

poorly educated people in this country. They are conditioned to accept propaganda as truth. The truth will set us free isn't exactly a working political strategy. The other side lies, cheats, and steals while we keep trying to explain why they are wrong. Good guys always finish last as they say. Lets hope the Iraq war in it's gruesome long overdue reality check and Katrina's emotional shock is enough to turn the tide in large enough numbers to prevent any election fraud. If the numbers are close again they'll be able to steal the elections, but if the polls and public sentiment is clearly against the GOP going into the elections they'll have to relenquish power.

[omega minimo]

4. Wow-- which side of the Repug class war are you on?

That is a terribly elitist and untrue statement.

There are a lot of college graduates going along with this bullshit too-- no less conditioned and no more (sometimes less) aware.

"They are conditioned to accept propaganda as truth."

The educated ones are worse cuz they have no excuse.

[Union Thug]

5. I agree with you. My 'uneducated' neighbor

.. a truck driver, is FAR more informed politically than some of the highly educated developers and designers that I work with. You wouldn't believe the crap I hear coming out of the offices and cubicles of people who should know better.

Also, try applying the educated/aware, uneducated/unaware theory at an ILWU hall some time.

[omega minimo]

7. Like the taxi driver that picked me up from seeing "The Big Red One"

Michael Moore's movie (referring to his idea for an alternate name for the U.S. in the title) who asked where I'd been and immediately went off on how much he loves MM's work.

"It's a no-brainer"! Of COURSE working people know what's goin on-- fer one thing they're not as isolated from reality as a lot of "educated" people. "You wouldn't believe the crap I hear coming out of the offices and cubicles of people who should know better." I'll bet. A lot of folks use their degrees just to feel superior without actually doing anything to prove it. An alot of thum candt spel.

This subject pops up occasionaly on DU. If a "soft" elitism about education is prevalent with Dems or Progressives, it would be a good idea to get over it. IMHO the false barrier that some Dems set up between "classes" makes THEM ignorant of how many "uneducated" people are well aware of where we are as a nation, as an economy and who's runnin the show-- it ain't that radical any more. Thom Hartmann does a good job of bridging this gap.

And IMnotsoHO it is extremely lame and increasingly tiresome to hear "educated" and privileged Americans on DU bemoan a bleak future they don't want to live in while they cave in to its inevitability and wait to be crushed by it.

"My 'uneducated' neighbor a truck driver, is FAR more informed politically than some of the highly educated developers and designers that I work with."

From what I've seen, DU has a number of lurking folk with a lot to contribute who are intimidated by perceived elitism. Dems can scoop up support and voters if they realize and create how to reach these people................

The people the Party USED TO BE ABOUT!!!

Here's to ya UT. "Be careful out there among them Ainglish." :toast:

[Union Thug]

12. "The People the Party Used to be About"

You nailed it.

I'm an anomaly. I shouldn't be where I am in life. I'm one of those guys with some college, I never finished my degree, but I am in a job that requires a masters degree according to the job description. As such, I am extremely sensitive to the 'soft elitism' that you bring up. I've been very, very lucky in my life and if for one punctuated moment, some juxtaposition of events had changed ever so slightly, I would very likely be back at Boeing bucking rivets (if I were one of the lucky ones...more likely, I'd be working at one of the underpaid boeing vendors).

The point I am trying to make is that not all of us are able to complete a college degree. That doesn't mean we are stupid. It doesn't mean we are less well informed than others. All that it means is that at some point in our lives, circumstances pointed us in one direction or another that led away from academia.

I count my blessings every day. I continue to pay my union dues to the IWW, though I am in mgmt. I support all my union brothers across the board who are struggling to maintain some little piece of what early socialists, labor radicals, anarchists and the New Deal won for the working people of this world. For someone who had the privilege of finishing their education to slight the people that sacrificed themselves for all of the benefits that workers have today really creeps me out. Liberalism is the ideology of all the people, not just the elite, educated and removed from the challenges of the working class.

[omega minimo]

15. Here's another example

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1449729


"The point I am trying to make is that not all of us are able to complete a college degree. That doesn't mean we are stupid. It doesn't mean we are less well informed than others. All that it means is that at some point in our lives, circumstances pointed us in one direction or another that led away from academia."

Well put. Although most of us bemoan the degradation of elementary/high school public education, not much is said about the decline of college education since the Reagan daze. People take a major, get a job and don't know much about other subjects...... what used to be a "liberal" education. Critical thinking, what's that? A lot of graduates are just good at following the herd.

[heidler1]

6. During the Vietnam war a Yale grad. tried to persuade me and

others that his degree helped prove that his support for that war was valid. I ask him if all Yale grads agreed with him and he embarrassedly admitted that most did not.

[drm604]

3. I'm not so sure that I agree.

It took years of massively funded propaganda to get the country to make those idiotic choices. To me that shows that those choices don't come from people's natural tendencies. It took massive effort to start to undo all of social reforms that had been made.

I'm not saying that human tendencies are always wise and progressive, just that they may be more progressive and less regressive than you think.

[tnlefty]

8. From my experience it is more a willingness of people to accept

information that might lead to wisdom. I know highly educated people who state to me when they are presented with hard facts and info., "it's just done in an effort to make Bush** look bad.":shrug:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. As H.L. Mencken said. prophetically:

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken

The current inhabitant infesting the White House seems to bear him out.

[annabanana]

10. Education is the key.

I'm not just talking "school" here, either. Experience with different kinds of people in different situations, travel, the encouragement of curiosity are all key.

I believe that people with good information make good choices. I believe that most people are fair and want things to be good for as many people as possible.

Starving the schools, making "eggheads and nerds" socially suspect, celebrating ignorance and the encouragement of bigotry are part and parcel of the dreadful choices.

[MazeRat7]

11. Bad assumption....but right direction.

While I agree to some degree, I would much rather see a liberal/progressive philosophy that acts with COMPASSION toward all people and not reliant on their life store of wisdom.

To twist an old adage.. If actions speak louder than words, then right and compassionate actions will provide fertile ground for the growth of wisdom.

MZr7

[rucky]

13. ok...this is the fifth time I've tried to type a response.

and I have absolutely no defense to your accusation that holds any water. ultimately it depends - and always has been - on "we the people."

:(

[tabasco]

14. Gullible people have been the downfall of many nations before.

Corporate mass media propaganda has tipped the balance in favor of the ignorant.

Too bad we can't learn from the mistakes of others.

We have to make the same mistakes over and over again.