What are your feelings about

[TallahasseeGrannie]

gender selection? There is an interesting piece on MSNBC about it.

Should a woman's right of choice include choosing gender? This piece was about manipulating the cells before implantation. But it also begs the question, if you are pregnant and find out it is a girl and you already have a girl, is it moral to abort the pregnancy?

This is NOT flamebait, so let's be careful to focus on the argument and not the person doing the arguing!

[Sammy Pepys]

1. Honestly....

Where's the fun in that?

This is going to sound cheesy and even pro-life maybe (I'm not commenting on abortion in any way here), but where's the awe in how life is created...how all the peaces kind of fall into place through the grace of God/Zeus/Buddha/Mother Nature? What fun is it to pick out your child's hair color, eye color or gender beforehand? Why not just script their entire life by the year up through middle age while you're at it?

[Mandate My Ass]

2. Who cares if they abort for gender selection?

It's a legal procedure and nobody should have to justify that decision to anybody.

I have my own morality and I operate within it and treat people according to how I want to be treated. I don't expect others to conform to my version nor engage in a morality-measuring contest.

If they're fine with it, who am I to say differently? :shrug:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

4. One of the issues they brought up

was the concept of a skew of the gender in a country, with, for example, too many boys. (leading to militarism, prostitution, wife selling, etc.) Would you acceptance of the practice hold up if you saw this sort of thing happening?

[Mandate My Ass]

6. I don't have a crystal ball and neither does anybody else

That could happen and maybe it won't. Maybe the answer is to deal with the factors as they emerge instead of anticipating the worst and using it to curtail personal freedom.

I thought this was a discussion of the morality of the decision itself.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

8. Good point

regarding the morality and the consequences. I guess I am pondering where one begins and the other leaves off.

[greyl]

12. Too many boys leads to militarism, prostitution, and wife selling?

Hmmm, I don't know about that.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

16. Well, I don't either

but I believe that was the quote.

I guess what they are talking about it enormous imbalance, not just, say, 60-40, but even worse. Like maybe only 10 percent women? I'm guessing here.

[elehhhhna]

20. The type of person who'd abort for gender selection

probably should.

[greyl]

3. Yes, it's moral.

Emotionally, it may seem petty at first, but it's ultimately up to the woman's desire.

[Crowdance]

5. It's a woman's choice--no matter her motivation.

How would you enforce legislation prohibiting gender selection? All women seeking abortion would need to pass a lie detector test affirming their motives for abortion are not gender-based? Or, maybe, if she floats she's engaged in gender selection, if she sinks she was innocent. It would be absurd, of course, because it is such an intrusion into a woman's privacy.

I would never choose such a thing for myself, but it's not my place to decide for anyone else.

[Warpy]

7. Firmly on the fence on this one, Grannie

Because I know of people who have 3 or four of one gender and who are desperate for one of the other gender who will have an "extra" just on the chance it'll be the "correct" gender. For them, I think gender selection might be a wonderful thing.

However, for people with fewer than 3 children, no way. Especially no way for those who are stopping with one child.

We know what that does. We've seen it in China and India, both of which are going to need wars pretty soon because a large population of males with no hope of marriage, offspring, and normal lives is a destabilizing influence.

Sometimes Mother Nature just knows best.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

9. It is going to be an interesting

social experiment, isn't it?

[Coexist]

10. Gender is already being chosen

they use a centrifuge to separate the sperm somehow.

I had a boss who had three daughters - he wanted a son. He did this routine and ended up with a son.

I am not sure how it works.

On aborting due to gender - people find out what the gender of their child is all the time, very early in their pregnancies, how would this change anything?

(edited to add link to centrifuge stuff)

http://www.pregnancy-info.net/infertility_sex_selection.html

Reasons for Gender Selection
You may be wondering why a couple would be interested in choosing the gender of their child. Well, there are actually a number of common reasons for trying to increase your chances of having either a boy or a girl. Some reasons focus on the economic, social, or cultural benefits of having a child of a certain gender. Other common reasons include:


Preventing Genetic Disease: Some couples decide to choose the sex of their child in order to prevent passing along certain genetic disorders. Some genetic diseases, like hemophilia and muscular dystrophy, occur only in boys, so some couples decide to have a girl in order to prevent passing along these illnesses.
Family Rebuilding: Parents who have lost a child may decide to rebuild their family by having a child of the same gender. These couples often seek out sex selection procedures.
Family Balancing: Couples sometimes choose sex selection in order to balance their families. This means that couples who already have a child choose to have a child of the opposite sex.

[BlueStorm]

11. They have a problem with this in China...

too many families having boys and not enough girls. The government is now trying to convince families to carry and have girls. The reason being is that most Chinese believe that boys are better. This is leading to a problem that many girls are getting kidnapped and being married to perfect strangers. So to speak there isn't enough females to go around and the who society is gender imbalanced.

So I don't know if gender selection would really be a good thing.

Blue

[elehhhhna]

21. India also, although laws are being changed now.

[BlueStorm]

34. That is what I have heard...

in China they are giving incentatives to families that sire girls, such as more rations or something.

Blue

[Ksec]

13. Ive read China is suffering from this

Too many boys and not nearly enough girls. It started by wanting boys .

[SPKrazy]

14. No, I Draw A Line Here

abortion should be safe, rare, and legal

but it shouldn't include gender selection as a rationale for it.

Sorry guys

not buying it

[Mandate My Ass]

15. how very lucky for you

you'll never have to make that decision.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

17. You know

I am actually very glad this possibility (the abortion part, not the manipulation) was not available to me when I was bearing children. Sometimes technology can really complicate your life!

[Coexist]

18. I don't understand your response.

From the way I read it, you are saying that you are glad abortions were not available. Is that what you meant to say?

Because, abortions are as old as pregnancy.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/FLDem5/1

If you read my very first journal entry(!) there is a link to some really neat historical stuff.

http://www.connerprairie.org/historyonli...
<snip>
When contraception failed, as it was often wont to do, there was abortion. Abortion in the early nineteenth century simply did not elicit the controversy or comment as today (though it was rarely discussed as openly). Though not openly encouraged, it was not necessarily condemned out of hand if carried out early in the pregnancy

<snip>
“One book, Samuel Jennings' The Married Ladies Companion, was meant especially to be used by rural women. It offered frank advice for women who "took a common cold," the period colloquialism for missing a period. It urged using cathartics like aloe and calomel, and bleeding to restore menstruation. Abortion information was usually available in two sections of home medical books: how to "release obstructed menses" and "dangers" to avoid during pregnancy.

Clearly, any woman wishing badly enough to abort could find a solution to her dilemma, without relying on outside aid. If she wished to rely on herbal remedies, they could be easily obtained. Aloes, one of the most widely urged and effective abortifacient, were regularly advertised in newspapers as being available in local stores.”

[TallahasseeGrannie]

33. They became more available

legally when I was in college in the early 70s but that isn't what I meant. When I was having children there was no way to find out if it was a boy or a girl, so that wasn't a decision I had to make. No ultrasounds, or at least they were not commonly used. They did do amnio, but that was later in the pregnancy, too late to do anything about it.

There was a lot of talk about douching with vinegar to get either a boy or a girl, but I think that was probably hogwash.

[SPKrazy]

19. No One Should Ever Have To Make That Decision

abortion for sex preference of your children is just plain WRONG

as I said, abortion should be safe, rare, and legal

[titoresque]

24. I agree and I would

seriously question the person making such a complete selfish choice.
I agree there are reasons, good reasons, for choosing abortion. This seems careless and wrong.

[JuniperLea]

31. Isn't abortion sometimes a selfish choice anyway?

I think if we are going to keep abortion legal, we need to stay completely out of any moral conversation on the matter. I believe in choice, but the idea of abortion sickens me.* It's not my right to force my beliefs on another in this matter. There are many very good reasons to have an abortion and in order to keep that available, we need to leave the reasons for the abortion to the individuals involved.



*Without exception, every woman I know who has had an abortion says it haunts her and will do so all her life. But that was her choice. And to keep abortion available, we have to live with all of the consequences, good and bad.

[deaniac21]

22. Nature is over rated.

[titoresque]

23. Seriously?

[deaniac21]

25. I thought the sarcasm was evident.

[titoresque]

26. Sorry, just checking :)

:hi:

[PWRinNY]

27. What an interesting question

Here's something I've never thought of. Well, maybe I have - in the case of the Chinese laws allowing for only one child per couple - I've always thought it was really awful that they'd abort because it wasn't a boy. Not my place to judge, however, I don't live in China, and I'm not bound by their laws. Hard to say how I'd feel if I was that oppressed... not that it may not come down to that kind of oppression right here in the USA - but that's another topic.

I believe in choice. I believe that it's the parents' moral dilemma, not my own. I might not agree with gender selection, but how could I judge another? Without being in their shoes, I couldn't. And it's not my place to impose my personal beliefs on others, nor to support legislation - laws should not be made to take away such intimate personal choices. That, to me, is worse than what they would seek to ban.

Personally, I don't think I would choose to abort based on gender. But that's my choice. And damn anyone who would try to take that choice away from me.

[Bluerthanblue]

28. geez, this IS a

hard question.
And rather than answer it, maybe I'll complicate it-

There was a movie I saw about a family where a woman was pregnant, and her brother was gay.-
The gist of the movie, was that they'd actually identified a gene that was a clear marker for homosexuality- The brother was pretty upset that the sister would 'test' to find out if her baby carried the gene- And what that said about him, and his value-

This whole issue gets tricky- If we advocate aborting babies based on sex, then where will the line be drawn? Could we also advocate only 'blue-eyed' or 'blond haired' or 'tall' or 'short' or any number of variations on the human theme?

I don't like telling people what they can, and cannot do- but the way folks in our culture are so friggin hung up on things that are pretty superficial- (boob jobs, face lifts, tummy tucks, liposuction, hair transplants, etc) We'd miss out on some pretty exceptional people- Einstien for one- many of our most gifted and talented humans weren't exactly 'beautiful' or 'perfect'-

But then you have the caste system in India, where infant girls are born, then poisoned, or allowed to starve to death, because they are girls, and require dowreys etc.- And the orphanages for chinese 'girls'-

Would it not be better they never take breath? rather than be abandoned, and allowed to die???-

I have more questions than answers I'm afraid.

I'm glad too, that I couldn't choose my children- because I'm not known for making good choices, and I ended up with the most wonderful kids.-

Good question TG-
no good answer-
peace,
blu

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. Firstly Choosing Gender Could Be A Man Or Woman's Choice.

Having that said, I find absolutely nothing to be wrong with gender selection, and it really isn't any of my business.

Though it wouldn't be any of my business either if someone chose to abort because the gender wasn't what they wanted, I would still find that to be pathetic and shameful.

[JuniperLea]

30. I think it best to keep natural processes

I feel that we upset the natural balance of life whenever we monkey with DNA. It scares me that we are eating so much genetically altered fruits and vegetables. Meat products are monkeyed with too.

We have no idea what this does down the road. It's all a crap-shoot. You can't change just one little thing... it has an impact.

[cynatnite]

32. I'm not comfortable with it...

But, a woman's reason for getting an abortion are her own and shouldn't be legislated.

[Behind the Aegis]

35. Twilight of the Golds

Abortion is about choice. It should be. However, to pretend that morality doesn't play into it is short-sighted. It is not about the choice itself, but why the choice is made. I still believe that abortion should always be safe and legal.

[Bluerthanblue]

37. That was the name of the movie-

I saw- thanks- I couldn't remember it, but boy did it make your think!

[Cerridwen]

36. Well, since girls and boys are equally valued here in the U.S

and in all parts of the globe, of course we should allow for gender selection abortion. Since all are equally value and welcomed, there would never be a case in which we would wind up with a population which leans heavily toward one sex over the other, with one race over the other, with one ethnicity over another, etc.

So, yes, yes I do think we should definately allow gender selection abortion in our perfect and all caring world; which, by the way, also has unlimited resources to provide for any population regardless of its size.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

38. Sarcasm?

[Cerridwen]

39. Much.

[woo me with science]

40. How big an issue is this in the US, really?

I can't believe this is happening often here. In China it is an issue, yeah, because of the one-child limit. But here in the US it sounds more to me like a topic chosen to cast suspicion on those who would argue for choice.

"Look at the trivial reasons they are doing it, those godless liberals!"

:sarcasm: