What makes boys grow up to be assholes like Rummy & Cheney?

[Philosoraptor]

What chain of events creates monsters like Wolfowitz, Bauer, Jeb Bush, Dan Quayle, Kristol, Perle, and Bush and all the other signers of the Project for the New American Century? How do human beings morph into these bizarre creatures?

We out here in normal land will never understand how a man could order soldiers to their deaths by lying to them about freedom and democracy, when they know it's really about making trillions. We wonder how they sleep at night, but they do, quite comfortably.

What is it about us, that allows these madmen to do what they've done? How the hell did it all get down to THIS?

[LaurenG]

1. Spoiled rotten brats

who then were given status without merit. They were well groomed to become the worst type of human. I can't figure out who would want to spend their lives with such bastards. It must be the money as it isn't their sweetness and light.

[jobycom]

2. Boys? You forgetting Rice and Coulter?

I think some people can't see beyond themselves. Good people say "Yeah, I could get rich by killing that person, but that's a terrible thing to do to them." Peole of limited intelligence and morality think, "Yeah, I could get rich by killing that person." They can't complete the thought, because they can't see the other person as important. Or sometimes, they can relate to the other person if they are enough like them. "Yeah, that other person is white, rich, protestant, like me, so I wouldn't kill them. But let me recruit them and together we can go kill some poor brown non-protestants and get rich!"

I think it's in the upbringing. Everyone has a selfish inclination, but good people are taught to overcome it. Greedy, bad people aren't taught well, so they continue to behave like lower life forms on the food chain. Hyenas, jackals, other scanvengers. Actually, comparing Bush to a jackal isn't right. Jackals don't know any better.

[cantstandbush]

19. I was going to post what I thought but I might get banned for it.

But just think why they are so envious of Clinton.

[Bad Penny]

3. Cheney has always had that crooked,

arrogant, 'just you wait till I eat your liver' look on his face.



Rumsfeld had too much superior Germanic blood in him to turn out to be anything more than a Darwinian uberman-machine with a twisted fascination for war and rapacious politics.









The first sight Bush laid eyes on were these people. He never had a chance to be anything but the anti-christ




born sociopaths. inept, controlling, conniving, intolerant, reckless, uncaring and probably racist to the core

[liberal N proud]

4. They were born with silver spoons stuck up their asses

[987654321]

5. As far as the Bush family goes...

Having no ethical standards or moral values is a family trait. Remember grandpa Prescott Bush made money from the Nazis, even after doing business with them was made illegal by our government. After breaking the law and getting caught, he still managed to be one of Eisenhower's favorite golfing buddies once Ike became president.

He does business with the Nazis even though it was known that they were slaughtering Jews and we were at war with them, but still he was able to hang out at the White House after the war? Doesn't that sound like arrogance to you? What about entitlement? Doesn't it sound like morally reprehensible behavior that not only goes unpunished, but is ultimately rewarded? Hm-mm, sounds to me like the Bush clan had an awesome role model in him, teaching them to not give a shit about anyone as long as they had money and influence.

That whole family makes me sick. It makes perfect sense to my why so many of the younger Bush kids, especially the daughters of Jeb and George, have so many issues with drinking and drugs. It must be hard for them to stay sober knowing they come from such a sick family history.

[zonmoy]

6. they were born sociopaths probably from a long line of them.

[Divernan]

7. An unholy confluence of nature & nurture - both from the dark side.

Some are born evil, others have evilness thrust upon them. In the case of Cheney & Rumsfeld & the Bushes, both influences converged to produce a whole that was greater than the sum of the parts. For example, with the Bush boys, you have the genetic heritage of their greedy, opportunistic, war-profiteering grandfather - and then being raised by that heartless, egomaniacal, foul-tempered mother.

[China_cat]

8. This topic in song.

http://www.soundamerica.com/sounds/spoofs/Music/

#2 on the list...ass2nite.wav

[marions ghost]

9. they are taught

from an early age that you must win at all costs. ANYTHING you do to get there is justified. And you will never lack for resources and people willing to help you "win." It's all about whose back to scratch. There is no concept of "cheating" in Bushworld.

You are right, the attitudes that produce these narcissistic men begin in childhood. By the time they graduate from their exclusive prep schools and elite colleges, the predatory pattern is set. They are perfectly in line with the values of the Republican party.

[Divernan]

11. It's not the elite schools - it's the families.

John and Bobby Kennedy, Al Gore, John Kerry - all the products of elite schools also - but they did not turn out as blood-thirsty, money-grubbing, heartless people. Child psychology indicates that a child's basic personality traits are set at a very early age - and a child who does not receive the unconditional approval and love which every baby/toddler needs, becomes a person who is incapable of really caring about others. In the era in which the current monsters Cheney, Rumsfeld & the Bush boys grew up, when fathers had little involvement in child-rearing, and their mothers were stay-at-home moms, I think you really have to look to how the mothers interacted with their kids. We all know about Barbara Bush - leaving her kids to go off and play golf the day their sister died. Well to do families in that era had housekeepers and nannies - the mothers spent their days shopping, playing bridge, meeting their friends at their private clubs, throwing dinner parties, etc. Even shipping kids off to boarding/prep schools is a strong indication that "mumsy" did not want to be bothered with child rearing. I cannot remotely imagine shipping my kids away to boarding school. I missed them and worried about them enough when they went off to college.

[Philosoraptor]

12. They are not like us.

I swear it's like having kings again.

[marions ghost]

20. I agree it's primarily the family

but I think you are hard on the mums. My mother was not a stay-at-home mom in the 60's-70's--but it was because she had a low-paying journalism job to help pay the bills. But she might as well have been playing golf as far as having less time for kids is concerned. It was the values she instilled when she WAS around that mattered. So I'm not sure MORE parenting is the answer, so much as not instilling questionable values. Back in those days I think the fathers were giving their boys a VERY strong message about what their roles were, and it was very rigid. I blame the dads just as much as the moms.
Poppy was just as much a factor in twisting George up as Babs, if you believe Kitty Kelley.

But then again I have a problem with some of the parents I see now (including my own siblings) who are IMO 'over-parenting'--maybe with a kind of compulsion to do it 'right.' (And many are doing that with the stresses of full-time jobs). That can backfire too.

As far as the schools are concerned--

I don't say the schools actually promote this "winner take all" philosophy--but they do provide the gathering place for the scions of these families to solidify the social behavior associated with their family codes.

Two of my best friends in the world went to 'elite' private schools and were not scarred for life, but they have in common being very creative types, not into becoming politicians. Others in my family have gone to such schools so I'm familiar with the territory. Just saying that these schools are where kindred spirits find each other. The schools themselves don't do anything actively to promote "winning is everything" but they don't counterract it--they are vested in the idea that their school is for deluxe special students.

Of course the schools want them to be successful in their lives--and it's technically not the school's fault if "success" is defined in grasping predatory terms in this country. If the schools are aware that there are negative issues associated with their constituency, they certainly don't want to look at it. I have two other friends who teach in elite private schools. They say that that the majority of students are spoiled brats who believe the world revolves around them. They suffer those kids quietly while getting their career jollies from the minority who are not budding assholes (scuse my French).

[Divernan]

27. I agree w/ you - did not mean in anyway to diss working moms-I was 1.

Working moms may also be away from home a lot, but they are giving a positive message to their kids -that family comes first, that you sacrifice for your family, that you have to work to provide for your kids, etc. I was talking about the wealthy women whose servants basically raised the kids. (Ethel Kennedy comes to mind. At least her kids had a loving dad.) The kids were lucky if they got a warm-hearted (often minority) woman to care for them while their mother was being a social butterfly. What Mom who loves her kid would send them off to boarding school - especially at the primary level? And I agree that the private academies/schools do tend to solidify elitist attitudes. What I was trying to say was that families, and in that era, mothers, were a critical factor in the kids' worldviews.

[marions ghost]

28. we basically agree

but are the mothers of those times too much different than the ones today pushing their kids to be successful by any means necessary? I don't think the times have changed. If anything they've gotten worse as far as the need for raking in big money above all. These kids today learn that anything goes and that cheating is OK. They do not understand the meaning of the word integrity and in fact often ridicule those dumb enough to play by the rules.

I agree that we need to question how this happens, and what can be done to change it. But by the time these kids hit their 20's it's ingrained...and after that it is society that teaches them. If our society were really serious about controlling corruption, even if these kids were brought up to be predators, there would be a corrective mechanism. Right now, there's nothing much stopping them.

[DistressedAmerican]

10. Very Simple...

Money.

It makes them evil and murderous.

My take on it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1416399&mesg_id=1416399

[stop the bleeding]

13. I was gonna say $$$$ as well n/t

[DistressedAmerican]

16. Survey Says...

Good Old Fashioned Republican Greed!

DING, DING, DING!

[MorningGlow]

14. Their mommies didn't love 'em n/t

[bridgit]

15. children of the illuminati...

Mind-controlled slaves are created for different purposes, hierarchy or non-hierarchy purposes

'The Illuminati create mind-controlled slaves who are to function within the Illuminati hierarchy. These slaves will usually have their genealogies hidden, and will be created to have excellent cover lives to insure that they are not detected. They will be given multifunctional programming, and will usually be used to help program other slaves. The abuse will not be as physically visible as it will be on the bodies of slaves who are not born to be part of the Illuminati elite.

Members of Moriah’s (Moriah = the Illuminati) Luciferian elite will have undergone as much trauma as other slaves, however the torture scars and the control are better concealed. These children will often receive lavish experiences as well as talks to convince them that they are part of the elite. (By the way, body scars will show up better under black light, that is the same black light as used in clubs.) The Illuminati and other organizations have also programmed individuals who are simply expendable. These are sex slaves who are used up and killed very early in life, one-time use saboteurs, breeders, soldiers, drug couriers and so forth. The bodies of these people will often show visible torture scars.' http://www.whale.to/b/sp/f1.html

[Philosoraptor]

17. An Elite group, born to be Monarchs, but that's too far fetched to believe

Dan Quayle, the Kennedys, the Bush's, one starts to see a pattern.

But to discuss it is to be dismissed.

[bridgit]

18. you haven't heard it seems, the exploits of bush as a young bone's man...

the disassociation, the bent toward homo-erotic release, the bizarre & quite nearly inhuman manner in which his parents treated the death of his sister, the harming & torturing of animals as a young man...not child; young man. bush's handlers knew all along that he was the right one for the deeds they intended to perpetrate upon the world = ask no questions, sign all papers, and remember...they are only flesh & blood, they will never be like us.

peter the great was brought into sessions where he was made to witness as a child of 9, the beheading of the usurpers to the czar & throne of russia.

there is a distance, a disassociation that is bred into 'the traveler'.

http://www.awakeninthedream.com/html

quayle was never part of the scenario. and the kennedy's are self destructive, but we all know what happens when they are not as it is a matter of history.

[Philosoraptor]

22. I watched a great documentary about it last week.

They were showing Da Vinci code docs. all day and they covered this. Very creepy.

[Virginia Dare]

21. Where do Cheney and Rummy fit in?...

do they pick up minions as they go along, are they recruited like spies or FBI agents?

I'm not dismissing you, I'm just thinking out loud with you. I like to don my tinfoil hat on a regular basis.

[The2ndWheel]

23. It's the nature of civilization

Back when the world had smaller empires, you could say the same thing about their leaders.

If there was more than one today, they would all be doing the exact same thing.

[BlooInBloo]

24. They were the geeks in the 60s - not the "kewl kidz"...

... the kewl kidz back then were the hippies, the ones who challenged The Man, that kinda thing.

The geeks threw in their lot with the status quo, the existing structure, and hated the hippie-revolutionary crowd passionately back then.

The hippies largely won, resulting in the geeks hating them even more.

Now (last 15 or so years) the geeks have FINALLY got their chance to "get back" at the object of their hatred. And they are.

EDIT: And don't forget Gingrich. Never forget Gingrich.

[omega minimo]

25. What makes you compulsively post baiting questions?

[bdamomma]

26. they are all frat boys

playing with other peoples lives. They do not take things or consequences seriously. They feel they are privileged to do such inhuman things.