Is there a definitive debunking of Swift Boat Vets online?

[Robb]

Honest question, I'm crafting a response to a LTTE, and google is rather overwhelmed. :)

[biscotti]

1. a thread from this morning

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1365962

[Solo_in_MD]

3. Not sure there is a definitive answer

and some parts will never be resolved. There is also a lot read into things, and conflicting recollections by all involved. Short of a time machine, a clear and unambiguous recounting of events does not seem practical. While I risk the wrath of many here over this, Kerry should sign the SF-180. Having the complete file public should help matters considerably. As a vet, I have to wonder why he does not.

I also think too much is being made of this. IMO, you only get one shot at the White House. Kerry had his and is not going to get another at the presidency. He is also effectively Senator for life. I see no purpose to resurrect this. If he does harbor any remaining Presidential aspirations, this will hurt them IMNSHO.

[blm]

4. He did - not that you'd ever know it from broadcast corporate media.

And refuting the Swifts on every charge they made as Kerry's team has done, makes it LESS likely to happen to the next vet, as his team developed a Patriot Project that has a system in place now to protect ANY vet who wants to run as a Democrat.

Why anyone would say this is unnecessary in this age of GOP funded media hitsquads that don't stop at vets is the mystery.

Curious why you never heard about the signing of the 180 and the findings that only one page had been missing from the ORIGINAL RELEASE of the file during the election, and that EVERY FACT WAS IN LINE with Kerry and his crew's version of events - EVERY FACT.

[Solo_in_MD]

5. Was is a public release or just to his biographer?

Could any of us get a complete copy of it from the archives at this point? I am asking since IIRC that was part of the controversy at time. I have not followed it much since, though a couple of colleagues were discussing it recently.

I also still think it is water under the bridge at this point and no value will come from rehashing it. Kerry will not get into the White House and is secure as a senator for life.

[blm]

6. I don't agree with you - I think he SHOULD be president. There isn't

anyone else I would trust to open the books on BushInc as much as I would trust Kerry will do it.

I am an anti-corruption, open government Democrat.

And you can play catch up about the 180 form - it turned out there was nothing more that really wasn't seen before when Kerry allowed some reporters to look at the records during the campaign. And no person should EVER have to release all his medical records - Bush didn't and never would. Republicans are lying HYPOCRITES to the core.


Kerry allows Navy release of military, medical records
Show numerous commendations
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | June 7, 2005

WASHINGTON -- Senator John F. Kerry, ending at least two years of refusal, has waived privacy restrictions and authorized the release of his full military and medical records.

The records, which the Navy Personnel Command provided to the Globe, are mostly a duplication of what Kerry released during his 2004 campaign for president, including numerous commendations from commanding officers who later criticized Kerry's Vietnam service.

>>>>>>

[Solo_in_MD]

7. He may well be the best person to follow Bush but I don't think he

would be elected. There is a school of thought that you only get one chance and his was 2004. Many here disagree with that concept, but I am not exactly standing alone with that position. Consider that the last exception to that was 30 years ago and Nixon.

Nothing against Kerry or what he might do, just don't think the American people would vote for him. Another democrat, sure, but Kerry had his shot. Does not mean I would not support him as the party nominee, but might support another depending who else is in the field if I thought they had a better chance of being elected and they were a real Democrat vice a DINO.


As for the SF180, did some light research. Turns out you can only authorize delivery to one specific organization/person, not anyone who asks. Still there is enough there that is not said that give those who want to believe the Swifties grounds to do so. There are also refutations to the refutations etc. We never were going to change their minds so I am not sure it matters.

Still think he is better off letting it go. IMO bringing this back up lessens how he is perceived by the American populace, and will hurt his effectiveness as a senator, and so has no up side. It is a best a pyhrric victory, and most likely a self destructive draw.

[bobbieinok]

8. IMO the point is for Kerry to 'take them out' to prevent the same

operation vs other democratic vets who run for office.

[Solo_in_MD]

9. Not possible

There is nothing that can be done legally and the MSM has pretty much marginalized the Swifties (Swift Boating is a verb up there with Peglerized). IMO, all he does is damage himself at this point. The time for an agressive counter attack was then, not 2 years later.

[blm]

12. I think you're the type who doesn't think Truth Matters. Cover uppers

who just want to move on - "oh well, nothing will change, forget the truth, it doesn't matter anymore."

Didn't you just love the way Clinton moved on and closed the books on BushInc when he took office in 1993? That worked out well for the 9-11 families didn't it?

[blm]

11. That's YOUR opinion - the task force he put together on this is also in

place to respond to any future trashing of veterans running as Dems.

And the minds of those who see the PROOF - movies and photographs and written orders - and STILL refuse to believe it are diehard Repubs who also believe Bush landed that fighter jet and Mission is Accomplished and Iraq helped Bin Laden do 9-11.

Bottom line - they are dumbasses who LIKE BEING DUMBASSES.

[TheFarseer]

2. the book "Lapdogs"

does a great job refuting that. I realize that's not on-line

[IdaBriggs]

10. Well, the U. S. Navy did that, but Swifties know they are all liars.

After all, you can't trust the U. S. Navy! There was a Yahoo article about it, and I used to have it bookmarked. Why not just stick to the facts?

"The U. S. Navy says the Swifties are liars; every assertion they made was false."

They will make shit up, but Republicans aren't members of the "reality based" community, so what can you do?